HD VGA Monitor or Sony HDM-14E5U for 6th-8th Gen Consoles

[Roboplodicus]

I saw there was a Sony HDM-14E5U which is a 13" 16:9 screen with 700 TV lines for sale in my area with a RGB and Component input card for 90$ with about 5k hours, I was curious if you guys thought this was a good deal and if you though the screen would be decent for playing stuff like GameCube/Wii/Wii-U/XBox 360/XBox One(I have a Hdmi to Component converter/scaler that can convert 1080p into 1080i so I can play on this Sony XBR910 that will also work with this I believe. I also noticed there is a VGA Monitor $170 Mitshubshi Diamond Pro 2070SB which has a 4:3 20" viewable diagonal screen and has a maximum resolution of 2048 x 1536. The VGA has basically double the "TV" lines over the 14E5U right? The 14E5U should have better color reproduction than the 2070SB yeah? I was also curious can the 14E5U display a 720P signal or would I need to feed it either 480p or 1080i I think that's what I read? Also can the 1070SB display a 1080p signal just with bars at the top and bottom? The specs I read mention resolutions below and above 1080p but don't specifically mention 1080p.

[BazookaBen]

The way PC CRT monitors work is that they'll display any resolution up to a max horizontal scan range. So pretty much all 21" monitors can display 1080p, some can even scan at 4k (though the aperture grille isn't fine enough to fully resolve the resolution).

So the Diamondtron has better flexibility, larger picture (especially for 4:3, which will have black bars on the sides on the BVM), and can handle most resolutions you throw at it. It will also have VERY good color, even though it may not have been calibrated for professional video like the BVM.

I have a LaCie monitor, which is a re-branded Diamondtron. I've played everything from PS2 to Switch to PC games running at 2560x1920. Always looks amazing

[Steamflogger Boss]

Yeah, that Diamond Tron is fabulous. I have a Lacie 22 Blue IV and it's a stunner. $170 for it is hefty, but if you plan to use it every day and it isn't already worn out it might be alright for you depending on your budget as well. Also depending on what you already have, it might cost more money to actually get stuff hooked up to it. Just another layer to consider.

As for the HDM I have no experience with them but 13'' is pretty tiny. I can't say I'd recommend it at all for modern gaming based on that alone. Does it do 1080p? I can't find good info on that but it seems like no. You REALLY don't want to play gen 8 w/ 1080i. You'd be taking a big hit for no reason. This thing would probably alright for gen 6 but then DC/Xbox/Gamecube look pretty good as-is on basically any HD CRT or Plasma worth a crap, and with minor assistance on more modern displays. All of those options would give you much more screen space.

[Roboplodicus]

So I went ahead and bought the HDM-14E5U and ya it only does up to 1080i not 1080p, there are only like 2 PVM/BVMs that actually do 1080p and they are rediculously hard to find and expensive. Now I'm sort of confused about a couple things, and I can't seem to find a manual online for this model. The monitor's screen isn't 16:9 I think its a 4:3 ratio, apparently though the 700 TV line rating is for the 16:9 mode though according to this http://www.broadcaststore.com/pdf/model ... family.pdf

The monitor has a faceplate you can put on it that covers up the black bars that would normally be there when you are playing 16:9 content and when you press the 16:9 little is lost to overscan(it says 5% in the mini-manual I found on the monitors broadcast store page http://www.broadcaststore.com/store/mod ... ?id=665579) and everything looks great and makes sense. But...when i unselect 16:9 and set my 360 to output 480p in "Normal" not "Widescreen" the picture doesn't fill up the whole screen black bars are still present above and below the picture, also the picture looks stretched horizontally though strangely when getting a 480p signal from the 360 selecting 16:9 squares up the image instead of stretching it out like one would expect and it no longer looks stretched but even at this point I still have black bars at the top and bottom of the screen. I used my Wii set on 480p to double check this issue and I got the same bars at the top and bottom from the Wii also. I don't know why there would be screen space that never gets used so I suspect that something in the regular or service menu has been messed with but I looked through the regular menu real quick and there wasn't anything obviously causing this issue and I'm a little bit afraid to go into the service menu, but I know thats like the whole reason to get a PVM in the first place its just sort of daunting because I still haven't found the manual, idk if the service menu is similar enough between Sony PVMs that I could maybe use the manual from another. Any thoughts/suggestions?

PS Halo 3 looks absolutely incredible in 16:9 mode at 1080i holy moly...I have a Sony KV-34XBR910 with the super fine pitch tube but this screen is at a whole different level now I'm wondering what it would look like on that 24" widescreen BVM that goes for like 2,000$...

[Xer Xian]

HDM monitors date back to early '90s so there's little to no chance for them to have digital adjustments, you'll have to open it up and find the right pot to tweak the vertical size.

By the way, I think these monitors can only do 480p and 1035/1080i. Not very useful for gaming, but they are a cornerstone in the broadcasting history. If you can read italian, here's a nice report documenting their use in broadcasting the '90 World cup in HD by italian Rai.

[Roboplodicus]

HDM monitors date back to early '90s so there's little to no chance for them to have digital adjustments, you'll have to open it up and find the right pot to tweak the vertical size.

By the way, I think these monitors can only do 480p and 1035/1080i. Not very useful for gaming, but they are a cornerstone in the broadcasting history. If you can read italian, here's a nice report documenting their use in broadcasting the '90 World cup in HD by italian Rai.

I'm really curious how the monitor got set to have black bars on the top and bottom even in 4:3. I was hoping fixing the issue wouldn't involve opening up the thing, though I may know someone that I could pay to do that for me that has proper safety equipment and safety training. And I actually think the monitor is fantastic for gaming especially for 6th gen PS2-GameCube-Xbox and really not bad IMO for 7th and 8th generation gaming hopefully because that's what I bought it for haha. Everything I played on the 360 looked amazing its small sure but I think there is actually kind of a charm to playing really up close to the TV, I just need a way to mount it at about eye level on a desk. BTW that sounds like an interesting read but my Italian is a little bit rusty

Edit:
I was also wondering if someone knows if the HDM-14E5U is similar/same as the BVM-14E5U

[Steamflogger Boss]

All that really matters is that you are happy with it, so that's good to hear.

You would think based on the name that this is that BVM but with less options or something.

If you can get one of those Diamond tubes for a lot less I recommend it. I got two for free (though one is worn out unfortunately).

[Lord of Pirates]

The way PC CRT monitors work is that they'll display any resolution up to a max horizontal scan range. So pretty much all 21" monitors can display 1080p, some can even scan at 4k (though the aperture grille isn't fine enough to fully resolve the resolution).

So the Diamondtron has better flexibility, larger picture (especially for 4:3, which will have black bars on the sides on the BVM), and can handle most resolutions you throw at it. It will also have VERY good color, even though it may not have been calibrated for professional video like the BVM.

I have a LaCie monitor, which is a re-branded Diamondtron. I've played everything from PS2 to Switch to PC games running at 2560x1920. Always looks amazing

What manages that output ?

[Roboplodicus]

All that really matters is that you are happy with it, so that's good to hear.

You would think based on the name that this is that BVM but with less options or something.

If you can get one of those Diamond tubes for a lot less I recommend it. I got two for free (though one is worn out unfortunately).

What ways are there to tell if a screen is worn out? I'll be checking out the Diamond hopefully at a point in the next week or two.

[Steamflogger Boss]

It would be pretty obvious. On the Mitsubishi 2070B I have the image is very worn and dim in comparison, immediately noticeable even without anything to compare to. It was ran probably with the ultra bright mode on its entire life, given that it was toggled on when I got it.

[Lord of Pirates]

Images with dark details are a good quick test.
http://i.imgur.com/Yp7FEZS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/M2LaXgl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qYqUhRR.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pETKSvE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hcLYEpB.jpg

You should be able to see everything without needing the brightness up high.

[Roboplodicus]

I'll be sure to bring a flash drive with some dark horror games clips on it when I check out the monitor.

I had a question about running my xbox one and xbox 360 into the 14e5u. If I'm running hdmi out into a HDMI to Component converter should I set the Xboxes to PC-RGB output or standard? PCRGB right? Also is anyone aware of a decent HDMI to component converter that will also change 1080p to 1080i for the HDM? The one I have is kind of a piece of crap but it is the only one that doesn't cost like 180$ like the HDFury X3 that allows you to set the output resolution like I said so I can feed it 1080p and out 1080i.

Also when I mentioned that when feeding the HDM 480p the screen still showing black bars I was talking about big like 1 inch black bars on the bottom and top not tiny like milimeter bars. If they were small ones I can see having to open it up and adjust a potentiometer but with big ones like these it makes me think something is set weird in the settings, I absolutely could be wrong though I know next to nothing about these monitors.

[Xer Xian]

Yes you should set the Xbox to full range RGB.

I bought (and sold) an HdFury 4 for ~40EUR on eBay, not that bad of a price. It's a bit of a pain to use as a scaler though. I have a CYP CP-292 that does what you want, if you're located in Europe I would let it go cheap. Otherwise your best bet is probably an old Extron scaler like the IN1508. They are very cheap but I'm not sure of what sort of latency they add.

[Roboplodicus]

Yes you should set the Xbox to full range RGB.

I bought (and sold) an HdFury 4 for ~40EUR on eBay, not that bad of a price. It's a bit of a pain to use as a scaler though. I have a CYP CP-292 that does what you want, if you're located in Europe I would let it go cheap. Otherwise your best bet is probably an old Extron scaler like the IN1508. They are very cheap but I'm not sure of what sort of latency they add.

I'm located in North America maybe I could pay a big extra for it to cover the extra shipping? I do wonder how much latency would be added because I would just be converting from 1080p to 1080i which doesn't involve any complicated mathematics right?

[Steamflogger Boss]

You would probably be better off just finding something on eBay within the US. Just about any modern scaler would get the job done.

[Xer Xian]

I think that the only scaler still being sold officially (ie 'modern') that supports analog out is the Fury 4. Bar maybe some old stock somewhere.

But yeah there's no point in shipping internationally such a low value item. Are you sure you can't set the thing to output 1080i directly?

[Steamflogger Boss]

I think that the only scaler still being sold officially (ie 'modern') that supports analog out is the Fury 4. Bar maybe some old stock somewhere.

But yeah there's no point in shipping internationally such a low value item. Are you sure you can't set the thing to output 1080i directly?

At retail now I suspect you are correct. Everything outputs HDMI.

When I said modern I was just thinking anything from like 2002 and newer which I guess anything over 10 years old probably isn't that modern lol. I would suppose taking in 1080p isn't always a given for older stuff. Damn I'm feeling old.

After thinking about it I have 4 processors that I use regularly and two could do this job (VP30 and VP50pro). The IA100 doesn't support 1080p in and the Duo doesn't have analog out.

[Roboplodicus]

Are you sure you can't set the thing to output 1080i directly?

I'm sure, the official reason microsoft gave for not allowing the Xbox One to output 1080i is

"The "i" in 1080i stands for interlaced scan. This means that half the lines that make up screen images are "redrawn" by your HDTV 60 times a second. This format looks great with most content, but there is a slight blur (called "motion-blur") with fast-moving video. For this reason, Xbox One doesn't support interlaced resolutions."

https://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one ... cf6e9b1c9d from that link

I don't know why microsoft made that choice maybe they want people to go out and buy sony tvs.

Could I use a hdmi to VGA, d-sub to BNC plugs to play at 480p or 1080i, is VGA the same as RGB?

[Steamflogger Boss]

Could I use a hdmi to VGA, d-sub to BNC plugs to play at 480p or 1080i, is VGA the same as RGB?

The monitor would need to be able to take RGBHV in. If you could take a picture of the back of the unit or just post what all your input connections are I can better answer. If it doesn't take RGBHV you will need to output via ypbpr.

[orange808]

VGA is 640x480 on an IBM PC and it used the RGB color space.

A DVDO will get you 1080i will very little delay, but I strongly suggest using 720p. 1080i is nice for static images, but you're playing video games.

[Steamflogger Boss]

VGA is 640x480 on an IBM PC and it used the RGB color space.

A DVDO will get you 1080i will very little delay, but I strongly suggest using 720p. 1080i is nice for static images, but you're playing video games.

This monitor only supports 480p and 1035/1080i apparently.

[Roboplodicus]

VGA is 640x480 on an IBM PC and it used the RGB color space.

A DVDO will get you 1080i will very little delay, but I strongly suggest using 720p. 1080i is nice for static images, but you're playing video games.

So this is a real weird unit, it will actually only take 480p and 1080i I've tried 720p and it doesn't work haha.

Here is the input card

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee3 ... 173430.jpg
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee3 ... 173430.jpg

[BazookaBen]

I got my LaCie for $50, so i don't really thing they should try to get $170 for that mitsubishi monitor.

But don't forget, even if the picture isn't perfect on the Diamondtron, you can adjust calibrate it the picture both through the main menu (R,G,B bias and gain) and the service menu (deeper settings like gamma). They're supposed to have a long lifespan.

And you should make yourself familiar with this thread:

https://hardforum.com/threads/24-widesc ... ts.952788/

[orange808]

VGA is 640x480 on an IBM PC and it used the RGB color space.

A DVDO will get you 1080i will very little delay, but I strongly suggest using 720p. 1080i is nice for static images, but you're playing video games.

So this is a real weird unit, it will actually only take 480p and 1080i I've tried 720p and it doesn't work haha.

Here is the input card

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee3 ... 173430.jpg
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee3 ... 173430.jpg

Oops. You're right.

In that case, the DVDO is the lowest lag option. I don't know how good the results will be. I've never tried it and there's no options to tweak the output. You'll have to try it out.

Alternately, there are some processors out there with flicker filter options for 1080i. I believe the Barco Folscom ImagePro machines have flicker filter options for 1080i output, but they are very expensive and highly prized.

I have a full featured TVOne Corio2 (not a cheap "one task") machine with flicker filter options for interlaced output, but I've never tested out the results.

[Steamflogger Boss]

VGA is 640x480 on an IBM PC and it used the RGB color space.

A DVDO will get you 1080i will very little delay, but I strongly suggest using 720p. 1080i is nice for static images, but you're playing video games.

So this is a real weird unit, it will actually only take 480p and 1080i I've tried 720p and it doesn't work haha.

Here is the input card

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee3 ... 173430.jpg
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee3 ... 173430.jpg

If I am seeing this correctly and it just has the one sync I don't believe this will support RGBHV.

[BazookaBen]

If I am seeing this correctly and it just has the one sync I don't believe this will support RGBHV.

All you need to do is combine H and V. Sometimes it's as easy as using a passive T-connector for the two lines. Other times you might need something active like an Extron RGB.

[Roboplodicus]

If I am seeing this correctly and it just has the one sync I don't believe this will support RGBHV.

All you need to do is combine H and V. Sometimes it's as easy as using a passive T-connector for the two lines. Other times you might need something active like an Extron RGB.

It is just the one. How would I know if it was just a matter of getting a t-connector?

[BazookaBen]

It is just the one. How would I know if it was just a matter of getting a t-connector?

My PVM just needs a t-connector. But I think Fudoh mentioned that some BVM's are a little more picky and require an Extron to combine sync. I doubt that's true for all BVM's though.

T-connectors only cost a couple bucks, so you can just buy one and see how it goes.

[Roboplodicus]

It is just the one. How would I know if it was just a matter of getting a t-connector?

My PVM just needs a t-connector. But I think Fudoh mentioned that some BVM's are a little more picky and require an Extron to combine sync. I doubt that's true for all BVM's though.

T-connectors only cost a couple bucks, so you can just buy one and see how it goes.

the issue is I don't have the HDMI to VGA converter yet and they are sort of expensive, I'm suppose I could buy one from somewhere with a good return policy and try it out hmm.

I was able to figure out the black bar issue I had before I just had to switch from 16:9 in the menu to 4:3 one can't just use the button on the face of the unit apparently.

Now, I'm thinking the blacks ought to be a little blacker though, its only noticable when the image is showing a real real dark scene though. I'm trying to figure out if it's a calibration or a hardware issue. the unit only has about 5k hours on it but I know electronic components don't just wear out with use but also with age so I'm sort of wondering if something needs to be replaced maybe? Any thoughts?

EDIT:
Now I'm sort of wondering if I'm expecting the blacks to be blacker than they ever could be even when this was new. There is a dude in my area that sells PVMs and fixes/calibrates so I may see if I can pay him for a "consultation" on my screen if I start feeling super ultra OCD about my thing. I need to also just put those LOTR images on a flash drive and flip through them on my 360, its hard to figure out if there is an issue here when I have no point of comparison :/

[Xer Xian]

Now, I'm thinking the blacks ought to be a little blacker though, its only noticable when the image is showing a real real dark scene though. I'm trying to figure out if it's a calibration or a hardware issue. the unit only has about 5k hours on it but I know electronic components don't just wear out with use but also with age so I'm sort of wondering if something needs to be replaced maybe? Any thoughts?

If turning down the brightness doesn't help, it's probably yet another thing that requires getting inside the case (ie tweaking the screen pot on the flyback).