The reason to get the DS

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:55 am

dave4shmups wrote:I don't see how anyone who has the remotest interest in video games could hate Nintendo. They may very well be going down the Sega road, but they also single-handedly rescued video games from oblivion with the NES, twenty years ago.

No they didn't. Gaming was still very much alive and well during the supposed "crash" that never actually happened.

And just as an aside... there's nothing new about using a touch screen for games. I've had them on various PDAs for years, the Game.com (shitty as it was) had one, the Tapwave Zodiac had/has one, etc. It's not like Nintendo were the first ones to come up with the idea.

Neon wrote:Zelda games have always sucked, same with metroid. Seem to be popular thanks to marketing.

Or because they're fun and well-made.

Andi · Post by **Andi** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:56 am

dave4shmups wrote:I don't see how anyone who has the remotest interest in video games could hate Nintendo. They may very well be going down the Sega road, but they also single-handedly rescued video games from oblivion with the NES, twenty years ago.

Really? Nintendo made the NES back in the 80's?

Whoa, I didn't realize that. Nintendo is forgiven of every wrong they have ever done, and every wrong they will do in the near future. That includes the DS, Virtuaboy, and even Mario Is Missing.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:04 am

"No they didn't. Gaming was still very much alive and well during the supposed "crash" that never actually happened."

Oh really? Is that why virtually no one outside of the shmupping community has even heard of games like Gaplus, Grobda, etc, that came out in 1984 during this "supposed" crash??

Guys, seriously read "The Ultimate History of Video Games", by Steven L. Kent. There is no way on earth that the crash was some kind of myth. Toy stores in 1985 didn't even want to HEAR about a new console; that's why Nintendo launched the NES the way it did in New York City in December of '85.

Gaming was not "alive and well"; there were very few arcades in 1985 in the US, compared with even 2 years prior. And were it not for the NES, video gaming as we know it might not even exist.

I'm not saying anyone here even has to like Nintendo, but saying that the NES didn't save the video game market is just flat out not true, and like 'em or not, Nintendo deserves respect for what they did for the industry as a whole.

mannerbot · Post by **mannerbot** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:06 am

Yeah, remember what Michael Jackson did for pop music, so what if he likes to play with kids, no one can hate him!!!

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:10 am

"Yeah, remember what Michael Jackson did for pop music, so what if he likes to play with kids, no one can hate him!!!"

That's completely different; the evidence that he's even guilty is skant at best, and depends upon the testimony of a mother who constantly changes her story. And we're supposed to believe that Jackson only has sex with children once every 10 years, when it's a known fact that pedophiles do so habitually.

UnscathedFlyingObject · Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:46 am

Who cares if Nintendo saved the videogames scene back in the day. That was like 20 years ago. *YYYAAAAWWWNNNN* They don't have awesome third party support these days like they had during the NES and SNES era. Screw them. The next gen is where they'll cook their arses with their "revolution". They even admitted in some recent news they may hemorrage third party support like a cut in the neck with it. For the importance of third party support, think of the amount of games you want for other consoles instead of Nintendo's. In my case, I'm interested in 3 games for Nintendo consoles. The amount I want for my ps2 alone is like a dozen.

I'm also angry they did a disservice to me with the GBA "upgrade". Viva la Sony PSP! (at least when they do their hardware revision). No freakin' "upgrades" every two years.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:46 am

mannerbot wrote:Yeah, remember what Michael Jackson did for pop music, so what if he likes to play with kids, no one can hate him!!!

Not a relevant comparison but an incredible simulation nonetheless!

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:04 am

I never said that I even like Nintendo now, only that we, as gamers, should respect what they did for the industry. I never said either that that negates any mistakes they've made or are now making.

In any case, IMO, Nintendo doesn't need as much third-party support as other Next-Gen consoles, because they develop their best games themselves these days-Metroid Prime, and it's sequel, both being good examples of this.

Whatever, I just think that Nintendo, like any game company that's made a major postive impact on the industry, should be given respect for that impact, regardless of their mistakes. And I hardly see that as an unreasonalbe or indefensible position.

Tomtom · Post by **Tomtom** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:57 am

Whatever. This looks like quite a fun game and I want to play it.

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:21 am

dave4shmups wrote:"No they didn't. Gaming was still very much alive and well during the supposed "crash" that never actually happened."

Oh really? Is that why virtually no one outside of the shmupping community has even heard of games like Gaplus, Grobda, etc, that came out in 1984 during this "supposed" crash??

Guys, seriously read "The Ultimate History of Video Games", by Steven L. Kent. There is no way on earth that the crash was some kind of myth. Toy stores in 1985 didn't even want to HEAR about a new console; that's why Nintendo launched the NES the way it did in New York City in December of '85.

Gaming was not "alive and well"; there were very few arcades in 1985 in the US, compared with even 2 years prior. And were it not for the NES, video gaming as we know it might not even exist.

I'm not saying anyone here even has to like Nintendo, but saying that the NES didn't save the video game market is just flat out not true, and like 'em or not, Nintendo deserves respect for what they did for the industry as a whole.

Console gaming hit a serious slump. PC gaming, however, was in full swing around that time. The Commodore 64, for example, was very popular in the 83-86 era (it certainly made millions, despite "nobody" buying games around that time).

And nobody's heard of games from that period? I dunno, classics like Ultima IV and Wizardry seem to stand in stark contrast to that claim.

The industry crash is a myth. The industry was still making plenty of money, and games were still being bought. It just so happens that for a few years the focus shifted from arcades and consoles to computers. Nintendo revived the "video games as toys" image and brought some focus back to consoles, but that's it.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:52 pm

Thanks for the clairfication, I was speaking of the console crash. I didn't know about all the computer gaming taking place back then, but then my family didn't even get a computer until 1987, and that was a Mac Plus.

In any case, with all the DS games that are coming out this summer, I do think that DS sales will see a sharp rise at that point.

That Kirby game does indeed look very cool, but I'll probably just end up getting a GBA-SP. I've played a DS at my local GameCrazy, and while I enjoy the touch-based interface, the D-Pad and main buttons feel way too small for my 6'1'' hands.

judesalmon · Post by **judesalmon** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:39 pm

The reasons I hate Nintendo:

A) They are hailed as the most innovative company, but they're just been rehashing the same games for the last twenty years, yet no-one notices.

B) Sega went under and they didn't.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:45 pm

C'mon guys, there's a LOT worse companies out there, that are more worthy of your anger then Nintendto.

Like, gee I dunno, Sammy for demolishing Sega's AM2 development team and not giving us a home port of Dolpin Blue, Konami for refusing to include any of the NES Contra's as unlockables in any of their recent Contra games (meanwhile Tecmo has made all 3 NES Ninja Gaiden games unlockable in XBOX Ninja Gaiden), etc, etc.

jp · Post by jp » Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:10 pm

dave4shmups wrote: I've played a DS at my local GameCrazy, and while I enjoy the touch-based interface, the D-Pad and main buttons feel way too small for my 6'1'' hands.

Feels fine to my 6'6'' hands.

mannerbot · Post by **mannerbot** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:15 pm

I sure hope your guys' hands aren't actually six feet tall.

joshschw · Post by **joshschw** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:19 pm

The buttons are pretty small but once you get used to them they are fine. I should find my posts from another forum from my initial DSimpressions

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:40 pm

i am not 6', but I have big hands (

at the ladies). and i love the ds buttons. they are rather small, but the slight "click"response is nice with the games i have been playing.

jp · Post by jp » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:39 pm

mannerbot wrote:I sure hope your guys' hands aren't actually six feet tall.

Isn't that what we were talking about?

*moves telescope back so he can read the internet from across the room*

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:59 pm

Nuke wrote:Sony=Crap that is built to break
Microsoft=Microsoft
Nintendo=Going down the Sega road
Sega=Owned by Sammy

......I'm depressed now

A small ray of hope could come in the form of Sega and Nintendo developing a console together. If they did, I am SURE the world would tremble before them. Just keep Miyamoto from designing the controller.

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:15 am

Specineff wrote:
Nuke wrote:Sony=Crap that is built to break
Microsoft=Microsoft
Nintendo=Going down the Sega road
Sega=Owned by Sammy

......I'm depressed now
A small ray of hope could come in the form of Sega and Nintendo developing a console together. If they did, I am SURE the world would tremble before them. Just keep Miyamoto from designing the controller.

Sega could only drag Nintendo down further at this point. And it's not like they have the great big franchises that they used to... Phantasy Star isn't the series it used to be, Sonic might as well be dead, Jet Set Radio died with Future, Monkey Ball is a curiousity but won't sell systems, etc.

What, exactly, would Sega bring to the table to help Nintendo?

(and yes, I know you were being facetious, but the very idea of that happening is too horrible to contemplate)

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:06 am

They could bring a great deal if the AM2 Team was still around. *grumbles*

But even now, it's not like they haven't contributed anything to Nintendo-they've put out highly acclaimed Sonic games on the GBA, and the best version of Sonic Heroes is widely acknowledged to be the Cube version.

jp · Post by jp » Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:47 am

Just because the Sonic Heroes on the Cube is the best version doesn't mean its a good game. Sega hasn't made a good console game since... since...

Well shit, I don't even remember at this point. It was 2 or 3 years ago though.

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:49 am

dave4shmups wrote:They could bring a great deal if the AM2 Team was still around. *grumbles*

Not really. AM2's games work better as arcade games than console games, and they don't exactly move systems, which is what we're talking about. Sega makes good games, but could their name and games move systems?

the best version of Sonic Heroes is widely acknowledged to be the Cube version.

Yeah, but the game sucks hard enough to get a bowling ball through a hose. It certainly wouldn't move systems.

UnscathedFlyingObject · Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:23 pm

If anyone is still interested in Kirby DS, take a look at the second video at IGN. Also, the first video seems slightly different from the one posted by jp.

http://media.ds.ign.com/media/711/711828/vids_1.html

My guess of the mechanics from it: pinch kirby and he rolls (how does one choose direction?), vertical slashes make him stop, clicking on him and making a line makes him do the "hot dash" (if you don't do this you have to manually make him move up or down the path), and slashing enemies with the stylus stuns them (though only kirby can kill). I don't know about power ups. My guess is that killing certain enemies net them.

Fine mechanics. I'll grab the game if Nintendo decides not to replace the DS in two years.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:29 pm

Just because the Sonic Heroes on the Cube is the best version doesn't mean its a good game. Sega hasn't made a good console game since... since...

Virtua Fighter 4 Evo? Or Outrun 2? Puyo pop Fever mehbe?

PsikyoPshumpPshooterP · Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:40 pm

Neon wrote:
Just because the Sonic Heroes on the Cube is the best version doesn't mean its a good game. Sega hasn't made a good console game since... since...
Virtua Fighter 4 Evo? Or Outrun 2? Puyo pop Fever mehbe?

VF Evo? Boom!
Outrun 2? Bang!
PPF? Bwned!

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:20 am

Neon wrote:
Just because the Sonic Heroes on the Cube is the best version doesn't mean its a good game. Sega hasn't made a good console game since... since...
Virtua Fighter 4 Evo? Or Outrun 2? Puyo pop Fever mehbe?

The only one that could possibly sell any systems is VF4. And Puyo Pop Fever is far from the best Puyo game. Arguably it's one of the worst.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:34 am

I wasn't referring to your hypothesis, but jp's claim that Sega hasn't made any good games since going third party, which is damn near factually untrue. I've known people who have put 600+ hours into VF4

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:38 am

sethsez wrote:
Neon wrote:
Just because the Sonic Heroes on the Cube is the best version doesn't mean its a good game. Sega hasn't made a good console game since... since...
Virtua Fighter 4 Evo? Or Outrun 2? Puyo pop Fever mehbe?
The only one that could possibly sell any systems is VF4. And Puyo Pop Fever is far from the best Puyo game. Arguably it's one of the worst.

VF4 Evo and Puyo Puyo Fever are great games IMO. I have the Japanese GBA Puyo Puyo Fever and I love it. I do like other Puyo Puyo games better, but that doesn't stop PPF from being a great game IMO. It also does something a bit different from other Puyo Puyos by adding 3-4 puyos to the mix. I love the slo mo fever mode. Virtua Fighter 4 Evo is one of the best, if not the best 3D fighting games out there IMO. I heard some great things about Outrun 2, but I haven't played it. Also keep in mind that Astro Boy GBA was a co-development with Hitmaker and Treasure, so SEGA was involved a bit with the game. SEGA does still make some good games.

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:42 am

I love VF4Evo. Probably my favorite fighting game.

Puyo Pop though... I dunno. I mean, the basis of the game was already there before Sega got the series, and all of the additions in Fever were for the worse IMO. I think the game is good despite Sega's handling of it, not because of it.

Basically, my thing with Sega is that they used to be great with console-oriented games and arcade-oriented games alike. Their arcade games are still pretty damn impressive, but the console-based ones have been pretty dismal.