R-Type/Gradius V confusion

AOTD3025 · Post by **AOTD3025** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:15 am

From time to time, I bring Gradius V with me to school and play the game in the rec room there. Well, somebody walks in, sees what I'm playing, and asks, "Hey, is that R-Type?" This happened more than once, too, and the school I attended is a technical school what's more, so you'd think that at least some of these people would know the difference. I guess the Gradius series just isn't as well known as the R-Type series, though how somebody can confuse the Vic Viper T-301 for the R-9A Arrowhead is beyond me. Maybe it's level 4 causing all the confusion . . .

Anybody else have had this experience?

-AOTD3025

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:20 am

Well, living in Georgia probably doesn't help. I used to live in Mississippi and i can tell you that next to no one you'll regularly meet in the south has an appreciation for video games - especially the classics. At least that was my expierience over the first 21 years of my life. Maybe it's different a few states over, because you do have a city like Atlanta.

Or i could just be rambling on...

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:05 pm

Consider yourself lucky - your fellow students know R-Type! I mean, they could have entered the room saying "what's this funny little game?" Instead some of them were at least able to individuate the precise genre.

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:05 pm

Turrican wrote:Consider yourself lucky - your fellow students know R-Type! I mean, they could have entered the room saying "what's this funny little game?" Instead some of them were at least able to individuate the precise genre.

yeah, nothing is more irritating than this (when it comes to video games). everybody i've met (even "serious" video game players) glazes over when i talk about shmups. i can understand not knowing the Pachis, Gareggas, and such, but when they get confused over gradius and r-type the world ends...

Post by **system11** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:02 pm

I have loads of friends who know -nothing- about computer games. Whenever I mention a shooter and they show some interest, it's always 'is that like R-Type?' or 'I remember R-Type, that was brilliant!'.

It simply has more recognition outside the fanbase that pretty much any series.

WarpZone · Post by **WarpZone** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:51 pm

Yeah, I've noticed "R-Type" seems more well known than Gradius as well. When a programming group at my school had a meet about 2D shooters, it was advertised as "making R-Type clones". I had to go, of course, and ended up giving some valuable advice- like to focus on collision detection before the number of power-ups. Wasn't without a few of my own recommendations for games to 'study', too.

On another note, whenever I play DoDonPachi, I have people look over and say, "hey! That one! I played that a long time ago!" And then somebody else comes over, "I played that one too!" It's a little cute. And I know I'm equally ignorant about a number of genres myself- turn on any VS fighter and I'll be saying, "Is that Tekken? Virtua Fighter?" They all look the same to me

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:28 pm

Oh well, as long as they can tell the difference between Raiden and R-Type, it's all good.

Anyway, anybody could be confused by seeing games. I could show you all the different Mega Mans and if you can't recognize MM1 from MM2 (by the score) or MM2 from MM3 (by noticing the slide) or MM3 from MM4 (by noticing the Mega Buster) or MM4 from MM5 and MM6 (by the BEAT pieces) or MM5 from MM6 (by the different armors).

Or I could show you the various Street Fighter II versions and expect you to tell me immediately during play (with original characters) which version I'm playing immediately by the costume color and health bars.

Different people care differently about different interests.

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:46 pm

WarpZone wrote:On another note, whenever I play DoDonPachi, I have people look over and say, "hey! That one! I played that a long time ago!" And then somebody else comes over, "I played that one too!" It's a little cute. And I know I'm equally ignorant about a number of genres myself- turn on any VS fighter and I'll be saying, "Is that Tekken? Virtua Fighter?" They all look the same to me

yeah, i've had professors at my college, walk up to my station while i am actively mame'ing and say things like, "i remember playing a game just like that a long time ago." note these comments are in reference to pachi's, esprade, and several raizing games (garegga, batrider, etc).

edit: and in comment to ganelon's comments above. but we're not talking about knowing the difference between the interfaces of the mega-mans or the characters of street fighter. gradius and r-type look different, play different, and ARE different. if they know what r-type is, then shouldn't the mechanics be recognizable?

... of course i speak as a person who wouldn't miss a beat in identifying either...

ghibli99 · Post by **ghibli99** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:58 pm

AOTD3025 wrote:From time to time, I bring Gradius V with me to school and play the game in the rec room there. Well, somebody walks in, sees what I'm playing, and asks, "Hey, is that R-Type?" This happened more than once, too, and the school I attended is a technical school what's more, so you'd think that at least some of these people would know the difference. I guess the Gradius series just isn't as well known as the R-Type series, though how somebody can confuse the Vic Viper T-301 for the R-9A Arrowhead is beyond me. Maybe it's level 4 causing all the confusion . . .

Anybody else have had this experience?

I think people see that it's a horizontally scrolling shooter, and they make the closest association they have in their head, which for many people, is the original R-Type. Not a bad association to make... it could be worse, they could be referencing Blazeon.

Anyway, they share very little beyond that, although some of the organic and mechanical creations in G5 could easily be transplanted into an R-Type game (and vice versa). I hear all the time from my friends that all the vert shooters I play all look the same. When I try to show them why a game like Espgaluda is different from, say, Guwange, they don't really get it. Sadly, all the see is the genre and screen orientation. I'm guilty of this when it comes to genres I'm not into or keeping up with, like RTS... I don't see the subtleties, I usually just see that it's an RTS game that either looks like C&C if it's military, or Warcraft if it's fantasy.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:12 pm

captain ahar wrote: edit: and in comment to ganelon's comments above. but we're not talking about knowing the difference between the interfaces of the mega-mans or the characters of street fighter. gradius and r-type look different, play different, and ARE different. if they know what r-type is, then shouldn't the mechanics be recognizable?

But you're just talking about a slightly less specific categorization here. Besides the Gradius power-up bar and R-Type beam bar, there's not a whole lot immediately evident that either game is the other. One horiz space shooter compared to another looks about the same as comparing Mega Man and Mega Man X, slightly different but conceivable related.

I highly doubt that most people who casually notice a familiar game from a long time ago actually clearly remember what made the gameplay distinct, esp. in a genre where the gameplay isn't all that distinct. In a hardcore atmosphere, people shake their heads at people saying 2 fairly similar games are the same (like Street Fighter Alpha 1 and 2) since the gameplay required to win is completely different. However, to the casual fan, both look pretty much identical.

For example, if I see a football game and casually ask what it was (which I would never do, but that's beside the point), I'll probably immediately assume it's Madden (also ignoring the fact that only EA can make NFL games at this point). Regardless of how different the gameplay might be (and probably is), this other football game still looks pretty much the same as Madden to me with the same perspective, same teams, same basic look, and all.

These folks are just being social, that's all. I'm sure they realize they don't have much clue what they're talking about and so there's no harm done and no surprise association involved.

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:17 pm

Ganelon wrote:But you're just talking about a slightly less specific categorization here. Besides the Gradius power-up bar and R-Type beam bar, there's not a whole lot immediately evident that either game is the other. One horiz space shooter compared to another looks about the same as comparing Mega Man and Mega Man X, slightly different but conceivable related.

it just seems like r-type with the force pod, weapon design, and the levitating bits, compared to gradius' power-bar, weapons, options, etc are too different to confuse if someone is watching with even the least bit of actual interest... but again as someone who wouldn't miss a beat in naming either.

anyway, i've never been a fan of nitpick arguments, especially when they are so focused around ones own perception... and yet i started this one. :B

Ko.oS · Post by **Ko.oS** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:51 pm

a couple years back I tried out pulstar with the (back then) newly released neorageX (I think) - on a college terminal (mucho horsepower). some random guy asked if that was rtype.

true story.

ghibli99 · Post by **ghibli99** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:08 pm

Ko.oS wrote:a couple years back I tried out pulstar with the (back then) newly released neorageX (I think) - on a college terminal (mucho horsepower). some random guy asked if that was rtype.

true story.

Well, that makes sense, though (it looks like an Irem shooter), unless you were being sarcastic.

kccttzj · Post by **kccttzj** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:33 pm

I do think it's a littie strange that they'd ask if it was R-Type, but I can see where they might do that. Maybe R-Type is one of the only shooters they've played. It could have been a long time ago that they played it, and they don't remember much about it except the name, so they just said what first came to mind. I guess it could have been any number of things. Next time someone asks you, ask them why they thought it was R-Type.

Ko.oS · Post by **Ko.oS** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:58 pm

nah, dont worry no cheap sarcasm here - and yea, it was bekoz of the similarities (of course) - we chatted for a while, but the only thing i recall is that i showed him metalslug afterwards, and he was somehow familiar with that one too. ;)

WarCheese · Post by **WarCheese** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:32 pm

Hello:

[quote="WarpZone"]
On another note, whenever I play DoDonPachi, I have people look over and say, "hey! That one! I played that a long time ago!" And then somebody else comes over, "I played that one too!" It's a little cute. [/quote]

That's something that annoy me to no ends... They also get confused with a game they played in the past with something totally different. One time, I was play DOJ. Then, someone else comes along and say "Hey, I remember playing this. You need to shoot clouds for bells, and shoot the bells for powerups..."

The fact that they show no respect to the advances of shmups I can forgive. The fact that they can't tell between one thing and another insults their own intelligence.

Cheers.

WarCheese

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 pm

@ bloodflowers, Warp Zone:

yeah, I think that might be partially due to the fact that "gradius" games were known under a lot of different names: Nemesis, Salamander, Vulcan Venture... Of course the R-Type brand is more recognized, at least in Europe.

Post by **Ghegs** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:15 pm

I think some people need to step outside of themselves - it's natural for us to know and recognize the differences, even non-apparent ones in shmups because we play and read about them constantly. But most of these people in question have only a passing interest at the genre at best. The vast majority couldn't care less, but they've picked up some names along the years.

Ganelon and ghibli99 are perfectly right here. I personally would not be able to tell the difference between, say, Pro Evolution Soccer and some FIFA title. Or between most FPS or RTS titles. It's not a question of intelligence, it's a question of having an interest in the games. If I were more interested in the examples I mentioned, I'd naturally play them, read reviews and articles about them and discuss with other people about them. All of which would lead me to be knowledgeable about them.

Simple as that.

Sly Cherry Chunks · Post by **Sly Cherry Chunks** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:31 pm

I remember they used to have a Thundercross cab at a bowling alley near where I live and my friends all insisted that it was actually Z-Out. Even when we went all went down to play it and I pointed out the differences (like the title screen) they were still "no, It's Z-Out".

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:04 am

I'm a bit surprised to hear that R-Type is the more popular series, but there seems to be quite a bit of consensus on the issue.

One more piece of evidence. In their recent top 200 games-of-their-time, EGM ranks Gradius at 109 and R-Type at 42. Their ranking, I suspect, corresponds somewhat with popular opinion.

ghibli99 · Post by **ghibli99** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:15 am

professor ganson wrote:I'm a bit surprised to hear that R-Type is the more popular series, but there seems to be quite a bit of consensus on the issue.

One more piece of evidence. In their recent top 200 games-of-their-time, EGM ranks Gradius at 109 and R-Type at 42. Their ranking, I suspect, corresponds somewhat with popular opinion.

Personally, I'm not that surprised. I don't remember Gradius being nearly as popular as R-Type was. And throughout the years, R-Type seemed like it was ported to every system imaginable (SMS, TG16, FM Towns, GBC, etc.), and I think it's held up better over time. Arcade-wise, Life Force seemed more popular than Gradius, at least around where I lived (SoCal). R-Type machines were everywhere. Anyone who went to arcades with any regularity in the '80s likely saw R-Type many times. It's one of those games that most people recognize, whether they like the genre or not. In this day and age, if someone recognized that I was playing Gradius V, then color me impressed!

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:18 am

If the recent games are any indication:

http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/ ... ?q=gradius
Overall Ranking: 765
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/ ... p?q=r-type
Overall Ranking: 1112

This could also be due to R-Type Final sucking, so that throws it off a bit. I think Gradius has a more consistent presence, though.

Sword · Post by **Sword** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:07 pm

I've had this happen too.. I was playing Gradius Advance on my GBA Micro and one of my friends walked over saying 'Hey! Cool! R-type!'

In his defence, the screen on a Micro is pretty darn tiny. Still, I suspect R-type is just the only shmups he's ever played.

(on a related note: I still can't tell the difference between most of the 'tactical FPS' kind of games despite having played a couple at LAN-meetings and such)

RoninBuddha · Post by **RoninBuddha** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:21 pm

well, in my area, the most known shmup is Strikers1945, it's like.. when i tell my friends about a shmup game, they always say "Oh! i get it, it's like strikers!"

my close friend does know some realshmups though, my friend is addicted to the PerfectCherryBlossom/ShanghaiAlice games... and he respects Ikaruga... but he's bit biased, i showed him ESP Ra De, he said it wasnt as flashy and as "hardcoe" as PerfectCherry..

i also introduced him to DoDonPachi, i guess he liked it, he acutally installed Mame to his "For School Work" Laptop to play Cave and Psikyo games..

my other friends are mainstream gamers (PC games mostly) and they dont know anything about shmups... they caught me playing Ikaruga once, they said it looks good, but plays like an old game

hehe

tizerist · Post by **tizerist** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:07 pm

something that happened a few months back...

my friend (person A) walks into the room.
person A.- "is this r type??"
person b (ME)- "nah. gradius 5."
person A- "this really reminds me of r type"

a simple, yet informative exchange of views. r type has a quite distinctive name, while gradius sounds like darius sounds like parodius sounds like.........
you get the picture. its probably been advertised more often, and , at least in the 80s, r type was considered to be the best horizontal shooter by just about anyone. its actually quite obvious why r type is so much more known in the mainstream.
if im describing my latest escapades on thunderforce 5, and some one says "what type of game are you talking about?" an answer of "its like r type" will get the message across more easily than me saying "horizontal shooter"
thats life, innit?

Fenrir · Post by **Fenrir** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:31 pm

Yeah you should really consider yourself lucky if some people know R-Type, just like turrican said.
Whenever I say that I'm playing with a shoot-em up most of my friends think I'm playing doom.
Go figure.

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:24 pm

I couldn't tell the difference between Darius and Thunderforce before. This was quite recently too, maybe only about 3 or 4 years ago, fairly soon after I got into shooters.

A friend was playing emulated Thunderforce IV on his laptop and asked me if I knew what game it was. I had never played a Thunderforce game in my life and had never seen any screens, so I was just like... uh I don't know, Darius?

gs68 · Post by **gs68** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:21 am

A friend of mine's usedto play R-Type.

A couple years ago, while looking at DoDonPachi screenshots at my school library, someone asked me how to beat or access the very last boss, or something like that, and said that he played it. I didn't believe him.

Dale · Post by **Dale** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:41 am

gs68 wrote:A friend of mine's usedto play R-Type.

A couple years ago, while looking at DoDonPachi screenshots at my school library, someone asked me how to beat or access the very last boss, or something like that, and said that he played it. I didn't believe him.

He sounds legit to me I can understand his confusion about how to get to the true final boss. Well did you atleast answer his question

Alpolio · Post by **Alpolio** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:18 am

You guys think that's bad? Try googling "Darius."

shmups.system11.org

R-Type/Gradius V confusion

R-Type/Gradius V confusion

Re: R-Type/Gradius V confusion