Under Defeat for DC

[it290]

I think to optimize scores it's necessary to switch option types often. Of course you get the 5000 point bonus for picking up the same option type, but a big part of your bonus is derived from destruction %, and then you have the boss timer bonus. It seems best to use vulcan for smaller enemies, cannon for medium ones, and rockets for bosses. Of course if you take out a cluster of enemies quickly w/the cannon or rockets you get some bonuses as well, but the rockets especially take so long to charge that you'll end up missing stuff if you use them constantly.

[drsmoo]

yeah I meant more like border down.

[Kiken]

Higher scorers: Which option(s) are you using?

For bosses, I would heavily recommend Rocket. Despite requiring more time to activate, the impact + splash damage normally more than balances things out. It helps to also know that the Rocket pod requires roughly 5 seconds of recharge time after use (and roughly a 2.5 second deployment time).

Another trick with the Rocket Pod (specifically, since it only fires a single shot) is using the unit itself as a weapon. If the Rocket Pod unit collides with an enemy is does about half the damage of the actual fired rocket, however, there is no splash-damage from this. One trick I've been working on with the stage 3 boss is releasing the Rocket Pod as soon as I see the boss' life meter appear which allows enough time for the pod to fire and then collide with the boss before the unit self-destructs (causing 1.5x the damage of the rocket alone).

When it comes to the majority of the levels themselves, I find myself relying heavily on the Cannon Pod (or "Shotgun", as I prefer to call it) since it delivers a fairly strong blast and fires repeatedly for about 6 seconds and has about a 3 second recharge time. It is also far more aggresive at homing in on enemies than the Vulcan Pod.

[Frogacuda]

BTW, whatever happened to Namoi II?? Most of the games, like Under Defeat, just say Naomi.

The reason NAomi is still supported is the same reason Neo Geo and CPS2 lasted so long; because it has a huge installed base among arcade owners, so a small company can put out a game and have it sell without forcing arcade owners to purchase expensive new hardware.

It's kind of a corner the arcade industry paints itself into. Eventually something new will catch fire, probably another system based on a current console.

[louisg]

Can anyone here maybe post translations of the Results screen between stages? And, if it's not too much trouble, the intro text? Also, maybe I missed it in this 19-page thread, but how exactly does the scoring work?

[Frogacuda]

Can anyone here maybe post translations of the Results screen between stages? And, if it's not too much trouble, the intro text? Also, maybe I missed it in this 19-page thread, but how exactly does the scoring work?

The intro is on grev's site if you want to babelfish it. There's not much to it, though.

[Dennis]

Can anyone here maybe post translations of the Results screen between stages? And, if it's not too much trouble, the intro text? Also, maybe I missed it in this 19-page thread, but how exactly does the scoring work?

http://am.sega.jp/utop/closeup/under_06.html

[Neon]

Thanks Kiken. Another quick question: Has anyone actually managed to destroy the hangar towards the end of stage 1? Or is it there just as a barrier to keep you from getting at the tanks/car that come out?

[Twiddle]

Thanks Kiken. Another quick question: Has anyone actually managed to destroy the hangar towards the end of stage 1? Or is it there just as a barrier to keep you from getting at the tanks/car that come out?

You're actually hitting targets that haven't come out yet.

[stellarola]

could someone do a scan of the dvd case this game comes in? I don't have a scanner. Also, a move list for this game can be found on my sites front page.

http://candycabinetcity.tz4.com/

[greg]

best? That's pretty subjective. From the shmups I've played it's my favorite though.

That's good, drsmoo. So the five cents you spent on the CDR onto which you burned the Under Defeat ISO was money well spent for you. There's nothing worse than buyer's remorse.

[Thunder Force]

best? That's pretty subjective. From the shmups I've played it's my favorite though.

That's good, drsmoo. So the five cents you spent on the CDR onto which you burned the Under Defeat ISO was money well spent for you. There's nothing worse than buyer's remorse.

Please don't provoke unnecessary flamewars. drsmoo doesn't need to respond to that, as he's been posting constructively to this forum and not flaunting illicit use of UD unlike others.

releasing the Rocket Pod as soon as I see the boss' life meter appear which allows enough time for the pod to fire and then collide with the boss before the unit self-destructs (causing 1.5x the damage of the rocket alone).

Yeah this 'rocket fire + rocket pod collide' technique was one of the first things I accidentally noticed upon starting playing the game, but forgot to mention it. It even seems to result in impressive damage on the first boss.

[elvis]

It's kind of a corner the arcade industry paints itself into. Eventually something new will catch fire, probably another system based on a current console.

The current trend seems to be PC based hardware with consumer-level specs and security done via custom USB "dongles" to stop the filthy pirates.

Makes sense really. Why put all the effort into building your own extremely complex hardware when off-the-shelf consumer stuff will do a better job for 1/10th the price and output nicely to all manner of high res displays?

Likewise it means development kits can be built easily, and there's no worry about available compilers for x86 hardware (GCC is free, after all).

[nem]

Haha, if you can time your rocket pod just right on the first boss you can actually knock it off the screen. It also does massive damage (3/4 of the life bar).

Superb game.

[J-Manic]

I got my copy yesterday. Man, this game is freakin gorgeous. I can't believe the level of detail . The levels aren't boring at all. And that bomb you have looks too damn good. The controls took me a little to get used to. They're really good though, and really responsive. The music awesome too. Everything about this game makes it an instant classic.

So far, I've only been able to reach the 3rd stage.

[Super Laydock]

Gamefront reports that so far 10.000 copies of UD have been sold in Japan!!!

I think this is VERY impressive considering the patform and the genre.
Hopefully this will convince some companies that publishing shmups on the Dreamcast can be worthwhile even nowadays and possibly in thefuture as well. At least G.REV will be very happy with this!

Original post from Gamefront translated from German to English:

Sega sells 10,000 Under Defeat 29.03.06 -
Sega could sell so far 10,000 units in Japan from the Shooter Under Defeat Click Picture. That comes out from Enterbrain collections. The play came to 23.03.06 on the market.

[llabnip]

Gamefront reports that so far 10.000 copies of UD have been sold in Japan!!!

Wow! I thought they only pressed 5000 copies but I must be mistaken. That's great news. I hate to go crazy after only a week of semi-heavy play (15+ hours now as recorded by the in-game clock), but this is shaping up to be my favoriate DC game. It's got so much going for it - and it seems to be less manic than recent Cave offerings and less gimicky than Psivariar 2 or Shiki (both of which I like, however, just not as much) and the presentation is outstanding (both graphically, musically and play-wise). I still can't get over the (not to spoil anyone's enjoyment) powerful opening at stage 5.

Fair warning, I'm giving you late arriving slouches (j/k) one more week to get your copy and then I'm ordering another copy in support of the effort. Maybe in a year I'll bundle it up with a used Dreamcast for a giveaway prize here on shmups, or maybe I'll give it to my nephews to get them started down the path (they somewhat dug Ikaruga... sort-of).

I hope they make a 2nd pressing... or release this gem on the PS2 for a wider audience.

[CMoon]

Really, Sega should sell off the rights to the DC if they aren't going to support it but there are 10,000 copies of a nich title selling. It makes me think that another company with smaller overheads might do well with it (hah, like SNK!)

[CMoon]

I hate to go crazy after only a week of semi-heavy play (15+ hours now as recorded by the in-game clock), but this is shaping up to be my favoriate DC game.

I am feeling the same urge. Of course, the DC never had my favorite shmups on it, but ZG2 and BD are both fantastic, and this may even eclipse them (it is hard to say at this point.)

Either way, this is a real gem, and something completely different than the usual fare we always get so excited about.

[drsmoo]

how do I beat the last boss? I can't even beat it in freeplay.

[Kiken]

how do I beat the last boss? I can't even beat it in freeplay.

You have to fire directly up the barrel.

[Kiken]

Gamefront reports that so far 10.000 copies of UD have been sold in Japan!!!

Wow! I thought they only pressed 5000 copies but I must be mistaken. That's great news.
I hope they make a 2nd pressing... or release this gem on the PS2 for a wider audience.

More importantly, I think this sends a strong message to both G-Rev and Sega that the DC is still a viable platform for niche gaming.

[BIG]

I hope this will convince the good people over at G-Rev to change their mind about releasing Senko no Ronde for the 360 and port it over to the DC instead

B-

[Nei First]

But could this also prompt G.rev to consider a PS2 port in the near future?
I mean if they've sold this much on the DC already, the potential sales they could make off the PS2 may be very tempting for them. They sure deserve the profit.

[Neon]

But could this also prompt G.rev to consider a PS2 port in the near future?
I mean if they've sold this much on the DC already, the potential sales they could make off the PS2 may be very tempting for them. They sure deserve the profit.

Not really. 10k copies would be a decent selling shooter on PS2 as well. They'd probably just lose money and the respect of the DC fanboys.

So this is the best DC shooter eh? Why do we even think about things in such terms? I haven't put much time into Gigawing 2 or Mars Matrix yet but they seem much more interesting in terms of the score system, if we must limit it to one console. But I think UD will be worth clearing at least.

[Kiken]

But could this also prompt G.rev to consider a PS2 port in the near future?
I mean if they've sold this much on the DC already, the potential sales they could make off the PS2 may be very tempting for them. They sure deserve the profit.

Border Down pretty much sold out shortly after its release on DC as well (roughly the same number of copies as UD)... and yet, here we are 3 years later without a port to another console.

Maybe G-Rev don't like the PS2 from a hardware perspective...

[jp]

I got this last night, put about 2 hours on and off into it. So far I can make it to the 3rd boss on 1 credit, but then it kills me when it goes behind me (WTF btw)?


At any rate, this game just further demonstrates the genious of G.Rev. I hate helicopter shmups, but I love this one. It isn't slow and the controls don't suck. And the bullet patterns are incredibly fair (something I've noticed about G.Rev, despite being nail biting hard, their games are fair).

Beautiful games, lots of fun, looking forward to Senko no Ronde!

Hopefully G.Rev makes another DC game or two before abandoning it. I wonder how well G.Rev would sell if they did quit supporting the DC?

[Guardians Knight]

anyone tried 2 player mode? amusingly it doesnt put more enemies on the screen which is a testament to how hard it is in 1 player. muchos fun tho my mate loved it, i even got our lass playing and saying 'just one more go'

[elvis]

Maybe G-Rev don't like the PS2 from a hardware perspective...

AFAIK the PS2 devkit is not only expensive, but a pain in the arse to use (that statement based entirely on 3rd party hearsay from a commercial game developer buddy of mine). The DC was supposedly one of the (if not THE) easiest 3D console platform to develop on from the get go.

Fair warning, I'm giving you late arriving slouches (j/k) one more week to get your copy and then I'm ordering another copy in support of the effort. Maybe in a year I'll bundle it up with a used Dreamcast for a giveaway prize here on shmups, or maybe I'll give it to my nephews to get them started down the path (they somewhat dug Ikaruga... sort-of).

Get the nephews started I say. I've got two nephews who play nothing but GTA and Need for Speed titles. It makes me sick. Every time they come around they love playing all my shmups, but wouldn't know where to get copies locally (because you just can't around here). I should start buying them shmups for Christmas and birthdays I think.

Anyways... my copy of UD is somewhere between Hong Kong and my letter box, according to PA. It's going to be a fun weekend.

[LSU]

Another fan here. Very much enjoying it.

Don't think it's as good as Ikaruga, but it's certainly a beautifully put together game.

Only thing I don't like about it is the low-poly trees and the way they move, they just look like jelly to me. But that's a small niggle, and merely a graphical detail - It plays superbly.

I sincerely hope G-Rev continue to produce games like this for a long time to come.