Shmup mindstate

[Neon]

My achievements as far as scoring/completion of arcade games are modest at best (something I hope to change) but I notice whenever I have decent runs I tend to think certain ways.

I 1 lifed the first Metalslug (not really hard to do actually, after a month of on and off play and analysis, except for the 6th stage) but I remember thinking over and over I don't have a goal, I don't have a goal, and I felt like if I didn't keep saying it I would fuck it up. On one level that sounds kind of superstitious, but at the same time I wonder if that helped keep my mind thinking in a way which assured I would have the best possible chance of beating the game applying the knowledge about it I had.

And on every other such clear I've thought that way...complete detachment from emotions (if you do die you just don't give a fuck whatsoever, rather than swearing etc. for just one example) and general good feeling. Which makes me question the healthiness of it all, one such clear had me physically shaking yet feeling on top of the world, or maybe it's like what athletes feel after a good game.

Earlier today I was playing Under Defeat, and saying to myself 'if I don't clear the first two levels without dying, I'm restarting immediately' which resulted in a lot of stupid deaths on the first, second, or (if I made it) third levels. Just now I got to 1-4 with an approximately 400,000 point increase over my highest score with the mindset 'if I fuck up it doesn't matter, I'll keep going, and there's always the next run, not like I'm going to 1cc it this go anyway.'

Sorry for all the rambling, just wondering whether anyone's had similar experiences or any insights etc.

[ahnslaught]

Curiously enough, I had the same reaction playing UD last night as well!

Beginner's luck got me past level 2 after 3 plays, and so I was encouraged and kept playing, and I kept messing up because I had the expectation that I'll do equally well. Only when I kinda gave up and said I'd just play the damn game how ever far I get did I better that and get the highest score for the night.

You know, this normally happens in most things in life, at least in my opinion. If you think way too hard to do something, you just get yourself nervous/anxious/whatever and just end up making more errors than anything. Too bad it's easier said than done, eh?

[Arvandor]

Yup, when I 1cc'ed Ikaruga, a few runs before my 1cc run, I ONE LIFED the game up to Chapter 5, and I was doing so well, that I kept thinking "Ah, I have a chance, I can do this, just don't screw up;" and I ended up thinking too hard, and COMPLETELY botching it. The run after, I died once in Chapter 4, then just kinda played Chapter 5 without letting myself think about it, I just played the damn game, then lo and behold, I 1cc'ed it.

Thinking = Bad

[BulletMagnet]

Thinking = Bad

Careful, Rando might hear you.

[it290]

I think calmer = better. Whenever I've seen top players kicking ass, they're always totally detached. Personal experience confirms this -- I know that I always die when I see a tough bullet pattern and think 'oh shit', and my movements become noticably jerkier and larger, whereas if I remain calm I often get through unscathed. I think playing games outside of your house is good for this, too -- when I play Ms. Pacman at home, I'm always going for score and I never do that well, but when I play at the laundromat, I'm just looking to kill time and so I usually kick ass -- okay, I'm sure the real 4way joystick helps in that example too, but you get the point.

[professor ganson]

Thinking = Bad

For me, it's precisely when I stop thinking that I screw up. I pretty much suck at games until I get to know them well (and even then I suck by standards here). If I fail to keep in mind what I've learned, then I'm more likely to blow it.

[shiftace]

I remember bringing this up once, the shorter description is "in the zone." It seems that the best results come when I'm not concentrating on the game; but that seems to be more a symptom than a cause. I've watched some of my better scoring replays at Nomltest and Radio Zonde quite a few times, and there's nothing special there. If anything, I seem to take less risks than usual. Maybe that's all there is to it -- if I'm sufficiently distracted, I don't try to play above my ability, and the results improve.

[Rob]

All of my good games are a result of planning and practice. An ironed out plan with minimal improvisation is key 1. Focus on executing the script, like a robot. Key 2 is learning to calm down, which is pretty hard. Pause is a good function for console games.

[Marc]

It's the clam thing that gets me every time, as my state of excitement is related directly to how well I'm doing on any given game. I simply can't stop the adrenaline from flowing when I know my run as above-par, but that's when the chances of a mistake occuring are at their highest.

[sjewkestheloon]

i 1cc the first loop of fire shark (md) on defaults last night and i managed that purely because the game for me is blasting fun and i've been playing as something i can boot up and have an hour blasting through, ignoring both score and not worrying about progress.

what a great game!

i intend now to crank up the difficulty some and try to loop the bugger but i'm sure now that i have a real taste and i will actually concentrate i'll just turn to jelly by the ninth stage which can get pretty damn tough...

on a similar note i have foun d that i now dread t he 6th stage boss of gunbird (the final dragon) and i don't think i will even defeat him for that oh so close 1cc as by the time i get to him i'#m usually in a panic and i just wast all 3 lives by running straight into his spams.

[Randorama]

Thinking = Bad

Careful, Rando might hear you.

Yeah, i imagine the usual " omg i don't need to think to get good results in shmups is the zonez00rz and mystic powers!!1! I may even survive the attract screen with a lobotomy!!1!" (I should take a time-table and see the frequency of some cyclic threads, i think). But seriously, if you need to think how to do a section, chances are, the game will splat you while you find a solution. So, either you develop an incredibly fast thinking ability, or you think before playing and put those thoughts in action during playing.

Personally, once i have a plan, i have my mind somewhere else when executing it. Also, i don't have any stress when close to a goal, after 20 years and one gazillion 1-ccs, if i don't clear a game today, i'll clear it tomorrow

[Neon]

Thinking = Bad

Careful, Rando might hear you.

Yeah, i imagine the usual " omg i don't need to think to get good results in shmups is the zonez00rz and mystic powers!!1! I may even survive the attract screen with a lobotomy!!1!" (I should take a time-table and see the frequency of some cyclic threads, i think). But seriously, if you need to think how to do a section, chances are, the game will splat you while you find a solution. So, either you develop an incredibly fast thinking ability, or you think before playing and put those thoughts in action during playing.

Personally, once i have a plan, i have my mind somewhere else when executing it. Also, i don't have any stress when close to a goal, after 20 years and one gazillion 1-ccs, if i don't clear a game today, i'll clear it tomorrow

Agreed, definitely not what I meant. You've really got to put some thought into games, especially if going for a highscore, and remember 'landmarks' in stages so you know what's coming next, etc.

At the same time I'd say it's not at all a belief in mystical bullshit to think that your attitude/emotional state etc. affect the way you play. I think I've stumbled on something important, i.e. instead of setting small stupid goals for myself I'm just going to keep going through the game, and noting where improvements could be made rather than restarting at the tiniest fuckup, until I reach my eventual desired goal (1cc/hs/etc).

[RoninBuddha]

i try to get in the "groove", hrmm for example, in border down, when im in teh groove, i react to things better, my manuvers become more risky, but end up have this "booyah, i dodged that m'fckr!" at the end.. i dunno, its the typical "zen like" state wherein everything flows smoothly,... i 1CC'd Zero Gunner 2 the other day, and i wasnt even try...

but when i try to "perfect" my ESPRaDe or Tengai scores, i slip-up a lot of times...

thinking helps, but thinking to critically i think ruins your "flow".. imo.

also, when you paly a certain shmup, Ikaruga for example, then you try to be good at it... then you think you pretty good at it already, but then when you watch some superplay vids, in my case, it ruins me... after watching vids and stuff, i subconciously try to imitate what i saw, and in a way, lose my "groove"... so, as much as possible, i watch vids not to learn, but to be impressed.

[Twiddle]

Usually my 1ccs (aside from Zanac Neo, whose extends were far too generous even on Very Hard, they should have done every 1m or something) involve me pulling off quick maneuvers I don't think I had the ability to pull off.

[raiden]

some time ago there was an article by some brain scientist on this issue, and the interesting/new part about it was that the human brain can be very quick as reflexes go, but what slows it down is consciousness. So to achieve a great performance, you need to bypass consciousness, and that is done by exercising a lot. Instead of analyzing a pattern like you do when you see it the first time, you just get to know the moment this little tank rolls on screen, you need to be at that place, then tap the joystick left a little, and you´ll survive. You don´t think about what you´re doing, but do it automatically, like you don´t think about everyday routine ("how do I proceed about riding a bike?"). But the requirement, of course, is to first understand what you need to do, and that´s not always so obvious.

I´m convinced this explanation hits the nail on the spot, but it doesn´t help me when actually playing. Like Marc, I just can´t help but get excited when I feel like I´m doing good, but to get better, I´d have to repeat this "doing good" so often I wouldn´t get excited any longer. But when I don´t get excited any longer, I get bored, and that´s where the fun stops.

[Frederik]

One thing I am wondering about is if you guys talked about survival or scoring in shmups.

Gunbird or Dangun Feveron on the one hand are good examples of a game that can be played purely on reflexes, but when it comes to more strategic games like Bakraid or ESPRade, getting "in the zone" might be in the way if you try to play on score.

I have the impression that with me being "in the zone" results in concentrating on a very small area of the screen, around my ship - while the more "concious" approach results in look at the WHOLE screen for incoming enemies, scoring opportunites etc. while I die more often because I didn`t concentrate on my ship enough (ESPRade is a extreme example for this in my case).

[Icarus]

Play now, think later.

[Blade]

Use the Force, Luke.

[Ko.oS]

"the pressure that alters you when you're riding towards a new high score.."

"the first 100 times maybe - then you dont give a shit where you fuck up"

[chtimi-CLA]

i try to save the thinking to when i'm not playing, otherwise i watch myself playing instead of playing. i have a tendency to think aboutsomething else, to play well i have to stare at the screen and dismiss parasite thoughts.
also supposedly, the brain can fulfill tasks faster and better unconsciously.

[stratos]

The thing that you guys didn't mentioned regarding shmups good performance requisites is experience. If a player is in shmups from years (as our Rando) he has from his side:

1 - years of consolidating dodging technique, speaking of reflexes and the so called "vision of play" that helps you to spot the shape and the corridors in the patterns

2 - knowledge of shmups developing evolution, that make you "aware" of most of you can find in a shmup, since in the all bunch of them you have great similarities.


As far as we know, the shmup developing has evolved through time and has put many new ideas in the last years. The first shmups games where tought merely to be rewarding even on surviving, because they were beautiful just in their concept of being "shmups". So, the first thing you wanted to do was to simply play the game with fun, going further, and the second thing was: "I have to complete it!!!". For scoring, you had simply to shoot down the whole bunch of enemies, and with a good amount of matches you coul'd do this nearly automatically by inconscious memorization, being uncertain about strategy matters only in a few sections.


But the time passed over, and the games become more complex to keep players' interest alive, so the recent productions are based on more complex scoring system to exploit while navigating through thick bullet mazes.


If a player played shmups from the early age, he had probably automatized the survivalistic and scoring aspect of older games and coul'd start the most recent production with a more aware consciuousness. Their whole shmup experience was like a huge game that they played through years with a gradually ramping difficulty, that put not only more difficult stages, but added also new feature to the gameplay itself: it is really different if you started to play shmups with Dimahoo or Espgaluda (like me:)) only from a couple of months, since those games are the most recent evolution of a very old concepèt, that puts toghether a huge bunch of aspects, forcing you to concentrate at the same time about ALL of them... and pheraphs you wanted also to imitate the killing techniques you watched in superplays you downloaded from the damned (;)) site super-play.co.uk!!!

[Marc]

I´m convinced this explanation hits the nail on the spot, but it doesn´t help me when actually playing. Like Marc, I just can´t help but get excited when I feel like I´m doing good, but to get better, I´d have to repeat this "doing good" so often I wouldn´t get excited any longer. But when I don´t get excited any longer, I get bored, and that´s where the fun stops.

This is very me. When I'm not feeling the excitement, playing feels almost chore-like, or lacking that certain something, and I usually end up turning off and doing something else. I play for the 'adrenaline-rush' if you will, at least when it comes to a good shooter, because to me that's the entire point of a hard-as-nails shooting.action game. If I loose that, maybe I'd improve to to my approach becoming clamer, but I think any concern or desire to would wind up evaporating. That's about as well as my limited vocabulary will allow me to explain.

[FRO]

I think a lot of it comes down to what type of shmup you're playing. I will disagree w/ the "Thinking=bad" mindset, because thinking is essential for shmups (most of them, anyway). However, I think being "in the zone" or calm is the thing. Obviously "twitch" style shmups require less intense thought, it's just dodge, shoot, dodge, shoot. Staying calm & not getting stressed out by all the lasers, bullets, etc. or that you just lost 3 lives on the last level is a sure-fire way to get yourself killed, as it were.

In terms of more complex shmups, be it memorizers ala R-Type or manics with complex bullet patterns and/or scoring systems, obviously more thought is involved. However, the whole frustration factor weighs in heavily here. I know when I'm playing a game like DonPachi & just trying to have fun with it, I do better than if I'm sitting on the edge of my seat thinking "I'm going to take this boss down - he's mine!" If I'm just enjoying the experience & stay mindful of all the game is throwing at me, I tend to do better.

[PsikyoPshumpPshooterP]

i play like a robot when i try to 1cc

for examples, strikers 1999


when i go to my loca arcade, i get up till 1-8 with alot of ooh's and ahh's. but i remain emotionless throughout the whole run..i believe to conecentrate, but believe you will crush them all with no mercy and winning is not an expectaction, but a mere simple task.

[Icarus]

Although Rando would probably disagree with me, I do believe that there is something called "the zone", but it is more related to the optimal state of vision when playing, rather than some magical area of consciousness that makes one a godly player.

Take into consideration the different types of shmups available, and you can see a few patterns relating to the way they are structured - some rely on walls of densely packed bullets with small gaps (and the obligatory minuscule hitbox), while others are based on the "huge hitbox, low amount of fast bullets" gameplay.

Now, you should understand the best way to play these games is to control how you focus on the screen: in a bullet-hell, for example, you're focusing on your ship and a small area around your ship, scanning for paths of maneuverability, while classic low-bullet-count style shmups made you scan the whole screen for the next sniper-bullet-firing threat.

Learning to survive and score in both types meant you had to ensure that you were always focusing on the correct areas at all times: if you ended up scanning the whole screen in a bullet-hell, you are more likely to crash into something unseen lurking around your ship, while focusing in an area around your ship in a Raiden-style game meant your ass got sniped by that tank you missed hiding under that tree.

What I'm trying to get at is, that mental distractions of any kind - from the bright flashing light just outside that window, to thinking about what you should be attacking next in the game - can knock you out of this "zone of focus", which in many games can be absolutely fatal. To me, being "in the zone" means that while the game has my undivided attention, I am ensuring that my vision always remains focused on the areas neccessary for that particular game, such as the ship and it's local region in a Cave shmup, or quickly scanning the whole screen in Raiden DX.

And to reiterate my last comment (which was rather sarcastically replied to), "play now, think later". Save your strategising for when you're away from the game.

[Herr Schatten]

And to reiterate my last comment (which was rather sarcastically replied to), "play now, think later". Save your strategising for when you're away from the game.

That's very good advice. It helps me more to turn off the screen and mentally retrace my last run, analyzing my mistakes and thinking about areas where I could improve, than starting a new run rightaway, adrenalyn-laden as I am. I do play shmups for the rush (which I guess lots of people do, as the "seen-it-all"/"stay-calm-all-the-time"-players seem to be a minority), but I let it cool off before I start my next try. Otherwise my hands might be shaking just slightly or my mind might not be totally focused on the game and I will start making small mistakes that quickly add up to a worthless run, which leads to much frustration.

So yeah, play now, think later. Then play again.

[Randorama]

Although Rando would probably disagree with me, I do believe that there is something called "the zone", but it is more related to the optimal state of vision when playing, rather than some magical area of consciousness that makes one a godly player.

There is a vast scientific literature about the amount of processing resources used in attentional states and activities: personally, i know a few things about language processing problems. In a nutshell ( it would take me a while to compile a list of references, but i can do it), doing something for the billionth time in the same way requires a rather low amount of cognitive resources (do you need to think how to put a fork in your mouth in order to get food?). If someone invokes the spirits of Gaia or supernatural forces to explain things, that's another issue (his, i'd add): the random Master thesis on some fringe proposals doesn't really prove anything in particular, also. In short, it is a much more complex puzzle than the 'omg i step into the zonz00rz l33t l00k' argument floating on the intarweb: then again, we all want ready-made simple explanations, don't we?

Shmups are a rather complex activity for the brain, as they involve using an external artifact (pad or joystick) to move an object on a flat surface, solving a problem of "allowed patterns", i.e. figuring out which is the right sequence of moves according to the rules of the game. As the time given for this problem is usually short, sitting down half an hour to figure out how to dodge a pattern won't do. It's better to sit down and solve this problem before playing, and then put it in practice. Even the most complex theorem can be "proven" in seconds if you know all passages by heart (provided that you can write quickly, of course).

In this regard, Lao Tze's "a battle is won before the sword is unsheathed" is a good motto: if you need to do something complex and you have a short amount of time, plan first and execute later. It usually saves time as well.

[Neon]

You all put it into much better words than I did. I succeed not through a lack of thought but a lack of extraneous thoughts which break my concentration. So that's what 'the zone' really is, scientifically speaking. Concentration+proper planning and execution makes a good run.

Speaking of mystical bullshits, I haven't seen any threads about the Japanese master race being the cause of high scores lately.

[extrarice]

What I tend to do is leave my mind a blank slate, and don't set my eyes to focus on anything while generally staring at the center of the screen. I rely on peripheral vision and instinct/twitch reactions. Got through Gradius 3 (SNES) on Arcade mode that way (granted, the arcade mode on that version is not as difficult as the real thing).