Tim Worthington’s N64RGB...sync question

[JohnnyG178]

Greetings, I’ve just come into a N64 console that has Tim’s board installed( w Dblur). The N64 board revision is NUS-CPU-03 which still has the csync on the board. The RGB board looks to be configured to use composite video as sync (pads CS# and CS75 unconnected) so I can use a normal SNES RGB Scart cable BUT, since the csync is still on the actual board, can I not just use a regular csync rgb cable for the snes as well without any modifications? Sorry if this trivial but this has my head spinning.

[borti4938]

You can use a regular csync cable without any modifications on the console. However, keep in mind that you will always have a shifted picture if you use a sync source from the N64 mainboard compared to using the sync from the modding board.

[JohnnyG178]

Thanks, Didn't even think about that.

So basically if Composite Video as Sync gives me issues and I want to use the Csync from Tim's board AND bc my N64 board still has CSync enabled, I need to either cut the trace on the V pin and send the CS75 from Tim's board to that Pin (which will disable composite video) and obviously account for this with a cable...OR can I just remove the Cap C22, Resistor R1, Resistor R14, and use the CS57 from Tim's board right to pin 3 and use my current Csync SNES cables?

[leonk]

don't have picture of n64 in front of me but this is how I do it with N64 boards that have pin 3 / TTL level CSYNC.

- trace the wire from pin 3 of the multiAV to the first component (resistor)
- remove the resistor (or cut trace)
- run CS# fro N64RGB to pin 3 on the multiAV port.

done.

The CPLD adds a delay. so the picture will be shifted. Using TTL CSYNC from the N64RGB will correct this. Now use any standard snes csync rgb scart cable with the resistor in the scart cable that will convert TTL level csync to 75 ohm.

[borti4938]

The CPLD adds a delay..

Exactly one pixel. The stock encoder adds some more.

[JohnnyG178]

Thanks guys, appreciate the feedback.

[JohnnyG178]

I finally got around to hooking this console up over the weekend and was a little disappointed with the picture it's not very sharp compared to a lot of the RGB comparisons I've seen. (Running through an OSSC) I was under the impression (and it could be a false one..) that I could use the same SCART cable that I am using for my RGB'd SNES. The SNES cable is a CSYNC cable with no resistor bc the mod board is taking care of that.

Am I getting a crappy picture bc I am using the wrong cable- CSync as opposed to Composite Video as Sync?

I popped open the console and there is nothing connected to CS# or CS75, which means its using Composite Video for Sync right? Which I don't think works with the cable I tried...

[Kez]

If you're getting a picture then you obviously have a sync source wired up to that pin (either luma or cvideo), and if your SNES cable's sync line is just a wire with no additional components then it should be fine.

Is it possible that you have unrealistic expectations from your N64? Many games have not aged well at all, and even the de-blur cannot perform miracles. A lot of N64 footage on YouTube and the like is captured from emulators with a higher render resolution.

[JohnnyG178]

I didn't have super high expectations to begin with but with this result its not even worth it.... I've seen people take video of their Tv's with way better results... just don't know what I'm doing wrong.

[Kez]

Hmm.. and what game are you looking at there?

[borti4938]

Do you use the optimized 320x240 mode with the OSSC?

[JohnnyG178]

That particular game is Majora's Mask.

I've also tried Ocarina of time, with "eh" results.... BUT

if I put in Mario 64 or NHL99, it looks pretty damn good- I was so digusted I didn't try another game:




Is there a particular LineX mode I should be using to get a better result? I have access to a XRGB Mini, I can try too, but that would be just upscaling an already "eh" picture no?

[JohnnyG178]

Do you use the optimized 320x240 mode with the OSSC?

I believe I used the default 4:3, should I be using the Optimized mode? whenever I attempted to use it, the picture always looked worse.

[Kez]

With the optimized mode you need to also tweak the advanced timings options on a console-specific basis.

http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... al_timings

So for N64 set it to 320x240 optim. and try setting the adv timing options under sampling opt. to the settings in the wiki:

Code: Select all

H.samplerate=387, H.synclen=22, H.backporch=36

Also I think the intro cutscenes in the Zelda games may be pre rendered and compressed video? They always look awful for me too.

EDIT: Here's a couple shots of Majora's Mask in-game for me, using Line3x mode with the 320x240 and optimal timings. As you can see it's pixellated, but that's just due to the low render resolution.

[JohnnyG178]

Thanks for the photos. I am going to mess around with the settings some more and see what I come up with. Just preliminary putting those settings for the 320x240, it looks worse and the right side of the picture is cut off..

[Kez]

Yeah using these timings seems to mess up my 5x mode in the way you described, and I haven't managed to fix it by tweaking the settings. 2x, 3x and 4x all seem to work fine on my TV though. Normally I use scanlines with N64 stuff as it tends to soften the blow a bit.

[JohnnyG178]

Yep, I've turned on scan lines and it helps a bit. The De-blur Helps too.

Are the HDMI consoles getting a better picture?

[Kez]

I haven't experienced HDMI personally, but judging from comparisons I've seen online I don't think it would improve your results to the extent that you would suddenly be happy with a game that you previously turned off in disgust.

When it first hit the scene, the de-blur was one of the killer features, but now (thanks to borti and other members of the community) there are other ways to achieve that. Judging by your SM64 picture (though it's quite low res so hard to be sure), your setup is fairly close to optimizing what you can achieve in terms of graphical/image quality from original N64 hardware. Further upgrades might net you some marginal improvements but nothing earth-shattering.

If you really can't stand it, emulation is an option that you might want to consider.

[JohnnyG178]

haha yeah... just some wishful thinking on my part. I hadn't turned on a N64 in at least 18 years with Majoras Mask being the last title I probably purchased. Did we really play with those graphics? lol

Def will add the N64 to my setup and enjoy it the best I can as is. I appreciate your help with this!

[leonk]

your pic doesn't look right. are you sure you usb blaster borti's deblur firmware??

[JohnnyG178]

I’m pretty sure...I’m got the console 2nd hand but it does have the deblur switch which does make a difference when sliding it on and off.

[paulb_nl]

Yeah using these timings seems to mess up my 5x mode in the way you described, and I haven't managed to fix it by tweaking the settings. 2x, 3x and 4x all seem to work fine on my TV though. Normally I use scanlines with N64 stuff as it tends to soften the blow a bit.

For Line5X you need to use 1600x1200 output mode or for 1920x1080 this settings will work:

LineX5 mode: 256×240
256×240 aspect: 8:7
H.active: 320
H.samplerate 387
H.synclen 10
H.backporch 4

[Kez]

Did we really play with those graphics? lol

Haha, I don't know about you but I spent my N64 days playing on a cheap hand-me-down CRT via RF. I can't even imagine how horrible it must have looked, but in my mind's eye it's unparalleled beauty.

Thanks for those settings paulb_nl, they work great.

[JohnnyG178]

We are surely spoiled these days!

I’m going to try these setting when I get home today.

Thanks

[borti4938]

The major problem with the 320x240 optimised mode and the N64 is that there are 240p games which outputs 640x240 'useful' pixels... Of course you can use 320x240 mode to 'deblur' the image if the N64 outputs 320x240 pixels, where the other half are blurry pixels.
But, in my point of view it's better to use generic modes instead and leave the de-blur to the modding board.

Another problem is that the N64 does not output an integer number of pixels per row. In NTSC it is 773.5 (I don't know the number for PAL atm).