Extron RXI 203 for horizontal and vertical control

[Strider77]

I was planning on getting one of these to use on the tail end of my XRB3 set up strictly for adding horizontal and vertical position controls. I am using a CRT display.

XRGB3 -> RXI -> display.

Will this work as I plan on it working.

[Fudoh]

XRGB3 -> RXI -> display.
Will this work as I plan on it working.

yes, I had the XRGB-3 set up like for many years.

[BazookaBen]

The one caveat I would imagine is for interlaced output. Because Extron RGB's convert interlaced to pseudo-progressive when ADSP is on (which you need for position controls).

But I guess it's a non-issue for you because you don't plan on using any interlaced output modes from the XRGB?

[Strider77]

Define pseudo-progressive? Also keep in mind I won't be feeding it 480i... just 480p from the XRGB3.

Fudoh... any recommendations as far as model?

[Fudoh]

Because Extron RGB's convert interlaced to pseudo-progressive when ADSP is on (which you need for position controls).

if you toggle the sync polarity using the internal jumpers this turns around.

[Strider77]

What turns around?

Why would this be an issue if I'm feeding it 480p? I'm a bit lost now.

[Fudoh]

doesn't concern you in any way

The interfaces turn interlaced into progressive (480i to 240p) by flipping a certain dip switch. The same switch disables the controls on the front, but if you change the sync polarity internally, the behaviour flips around (you get the "pseudo" interlaced to progressive handling PLUS shifting controls).

[Strider77]

My main interest is solving the horizontal shifting to the right I get from the DC... and the minor shifting I get from the Duo RX.

[Dochartaigh]

The interfaces turn interlaced into progressive (480i to 240p) by flipping a certain dip switch. The same switch disables the controls on the front, but if you change the sync polarity internally, the behaviour flips around (you get the "pseudo" interlaced to progressive handling PLUS shifting controls).

Good info! Never knew this. I pulled up the jumper info from the 203's manual - which jumpers do you move/switch?

I might try this as I have a bunch of 203's. Which jumper inside should I change? (don't know if there's only 1 or what...).




Do any monitors have any issues with the sync polarity changing? (if that's the setting(s) were even changing here - don't exactly know what that is or does to be honest).

[Overkill]

I would like to know more details about it too. Should be positive sync be enabled, or negative?

Also, i can't find any info about the extron rgb 202 rxi, would it internally have the same jumpers?

[Dochartaigh]

I would like to know more details about it too. Should be positive sync be enabled, or negative?

Also, i can't find any info about the extron rgb 202 rxi, would it internally have the same jumpers?

Here's what Fudoh wrote (below) in another topic in regards to the jumpers. The 202 Rxi manual doesn't mention anything about jumpers so I don't know if you can change those on that model - might be worth it to pop it open and take a look though.

which jumpers to switch on the Extron RGB 203 Rxi so the centering controls work with ADSP on?

can't remember if it was vertical or horizontal sync polarity which you need to flip. Just try it. It's obvious once you see it working.

This is all still French to me...but at least there's only 7 different combinations on those 3x jumpers if I'm counting correctly so I plan on experimenting when I get a chance.

I'm most curious about if I could rig up each of my two main monitors to each have their own 203 Rxi (I have like 6 of them now...). The manual is a little hazy but I'm pretty sure I can run RGBS into the input (via VGA breakout cable), as well as have it output RGBS. -- I have underscan on one monitor so I could have two slightly different image scales setup (like H and V size set to 100/100% on the regular one, the other at ~105% to get rid of things like the annoying lines/dots on the outside borders of some Sega Genesis games, or things like the blue/black bar on NES Super Mario Bros 3), then use the 203 Rxi to center the image for each system. ...just don't know if it'll be worth the hassle, or better than my "pretty darn good" size/centering I already have setup. ...just wish there was a way to quickly scale the image on my other monitors which don't have overscan/underscan.

[Fudoh]

This is all still French to me...but at least there's only 7 different combinations on those 3x jumpers if I'm counting correctly so I plan on experimenting when I get a chance.

not that complicated. You put a jumper pin on JP20 to enable the polarity control in the first place, then you add one more jumper to either JP6 or 7 to flip the behaviour of the DDSP switch.

[strygo]

I remember messing with this in an attempt to flip the behavior and I was unable to. It's quite possible I did something wrong, so I also await your investigation.

[Dochartaigh]

not that complicated. You put a jumper pin on JP20 to enable the polarity control in the first place, then you add one more jumper to either JP6 or 7 to flip the behaviour of the DDSP switch.

Sweet. Thanks man - 2 options is better than trying 7

Ordered the VGA to BNC breakouts from monoprice the other day. So I'll basically be interrupting the normal RGBS signal/cable coming from my Extron Crosspoint before it reaches the monitor. Run it through the Extron RGB 203 Rxi (with the jumper tweak) to enable centering controls and see how it does. This might also fix my 224/240p problem with my Raspberry Pi 3 (we were talking about in that other topic) as well if I can get the H size on under/overscan setup properly (it'll probably mess up my Windows GroovyMAME PC I was previously using those settings for, but one thing at a time...).

[Fudoh]

it's been so many years that I last used that. It might also depend on the source signal's polarity in the first place or how the interface is configured right now. But whichever way it is, it's easy to give it a try - really no magic to that....

[Dochartaigh]

This is all still French to me...but at least there's only 7 different combinations on those 3x jumpers if I'm counting correctly so I plan on experimenting when I get a chance.

not that complicated. You put a jumper pin on JP20 to enable the polarity control in the first place, then you add one more jumper to either JP6 or 7 to flip the behaviour of the DDSP switch.

I remember messing with this in an attempt to flip the behavior and I was unable to. It's quite possible I did something wrong, so I also await your investigation.

it's been so many years that I last used that. It might also depend on the source signal's polarity in the first place or how the interface is configured right now. But whichever way it is, it's easy to give it a try - really no magic to that....

OK, I've just multiple hours trying to get the centering controls on an Extron RGB Rxi 203 to work with DDSP in the ON position by messing with the internal jumpers. And just like Stygo, no matter what jumper position(s) I use, when I turn the dials to try to shift the image, the LCD display says I can't do that with DDSP on.

I've tried - and this is the J20, J6, and J7 jumpers shown above, "O" is open/no jumper, "I" is bridged:

III
0II
I0I
II0
000
I00
0I0
00I

(I think that's all possible combinations)

...and then I tried it on a totally different Rxi 203 (which are a PITA to open up FYI). And then just for shits and giggles I tried those same combinations with the J11 jumper shifted to bridge #2 and 3 (it was on 1 & 2) -- basically just because it's next to it and the next section of the manual mentions changing that jumper so why not. Then I took J11 off completely and did everything AGAIN.... (no picture during this experiment mostly but I wanted to eliminate that as a possibility just in case...). Oh, and then I tried ALL this with the SERR dipswitch on as well since I sometimes have to use that (and again, just in case). Besides that, there's a whole bunch of other jumpers elsewhere inside the box, but I didn't want to get into those as there's literally probably a thousand different combinations if I start getting into those...

If it matters, my chain goes Original Xbox outputting 480p YPbPr > Extron CVC 200 (YPbPr to RGBS converter) > Extron VSC 700 downscaler (outputting 480i RGBS) > Extron RGB Rxi 203 > 15khz PVM. Everything routed in and out of an Extron Crosspoint
450 Plus 3232 HVA.

Anything else to try, did I mess something up, or does this just not work?

[Fudoh]

OK, I've just multiple hours trying to get the centering controls on an Extron RGB Rxi 203 to work with DDSP in the ON position by messing with the internal jumpers.

you misunderstood. This will never work. Once you enable that switch, you disable the controls. That's the point of it. What you DO change though is the relation between 480i/240p and the switch. Depending on your needs, you can get 480i to 240p with the switch in the OFF position.

But mind that your crosspoint might nullify all your efforts with it's own digital sync processing.

[strygo]

you misunderstood. This will never work. Once you enable that switch, you disable the controls. That's the point of it. What you DO change though is the relation between 480i/240p and the switch. Depending on your needs, you can get 480i to 240p with the switch in the OFF position.

Interesting. I was expecting the behavior that Dochartaigh was describing, so I may not have been looking for what you describe.

[Dochartaigh]

Interesting. I was expecting the behavior that Dochartaigh was describing, so I may not have been looking for what you describe.

Make that two of us. I'm also really not seeing 240p content (from 480i) no matter what console, game, or setting I try. I have 4x Crosspoint presets which let me quickly switch between regular(ly converted 480p to 480i), and various settings on 2x RGB Rxi 203's and 2x VSC 700's. I've also been switching, for example, between OG Xbox's Super Mario World emulation (which admittedly sucks) and a real SNES Super Mario World trying to get them to match up (even remotely) any which way (in regards to 240p and proper scanlines), and everything looks like shit. Anybody have a good test case to check out? Like a certain game which has a 480p and proper 240p version (my Wii switches into 240p so I can't use that to emulate and test this since the VSC 700 needs higher res) so I can see which settings on these units most closely make the two match?

Anybody care to share their VSC flicker and those two other settings? I like the last setting (forget what it's called), set to the highest - I find that really sharpens up the pseudo 480i/240p sharpness of the image. Middle setting seems to do nothing. First "flicker" setting is so small a difference I don't know what to use -- but still not getting anything that looks like true 240p to my eyes (still see flicker no matter the settings as I know people have mentioned, and not as thick scanlines because of that probably). Wish I had a Mimo II Genius or Emotia but I'm certianly not dropping like $300-400+ for one of those.

[Fudoh]

while I don't like or use the function I found the 480i to 240p "path" to be working like a charm.

The only sensible option on the VSC is to max out the vertical flicker filter. That's very obvious. If you forget about the 480i to 240p trickery for a moment and just focus on this: once you switch from any other filter level to that one, you'll see that the VSC700 will make sure that two adjacent lines are identical. The image will go from smoothed out to low-res in a heartbeat. Now - and only now - you can tell your monitor to display this image in 240p using the Extron interface.

But as said so many times before: if you're looking for solid conversion to 240p use a proper solution instead. Especially with YOUR hardware park.

Wish I had a Mimo II Genius or Emotia but I'm certianly not dropping like $300-400+ for one of those.

then try a DVDO or a TVOne instead.

[orange808]

The TVOne-1T-C2-400 is very reasonably priced right now. Don't let the price fool you. When configured correctly, the output is quite good.

Also, it accepts and outputs more than just RGBHV. It accepts and lets you select output in RGBHV, RGBS, SoG, and component.

Lag is similar to Framemeister. Also has a horizontal, vertical, or both "mirror image flip" option (but no rotation).

[Dochartaigh]

Tell me about the TVOne-1T-C2-400. I see a bunch of "Corio TVOne 1T-C2-400 PC/HD Scaler" on eBay for under $30. And it does proper 240p downscaling for use on CRT TV's/monitors? ...that would be crazy with how much people pay for the Super Emotia's and Mimo's. I'm fine with minute lag like the FM has - just want a passable non-flickery 240p.

For the DVDO's, I've been following the DVDO iScan VP50's, but those still seem to be $200ish. Thanks.

[nam9]

Is it the 400 model that you want for downscaling?

The 1T-C2-100/150 are specified as Down Conversion units on the TVOne website...
I trust you use the PC/HD Out (Loop) as output for downscaled RGBS??

[orange808]

Is it the 400 model that you want for downscaling?

The 1T-C2-100/150 are specified as Down Conversion units on the TVOne website...
I trust you use the PC/HD Out (Loop) as output for downscaled RGBS??

You don't want the 100 or 150. AFAIK, they don't do 240p.

That's a scan converter and it outputs interlaced 480i over composite or svideo. Those scan converters were also rebadged and sold under the Kramer name.

IMHO, the Extron VSC 500/700 produce the best 480i results and the Extrons are very easy to use. The TVOne machines are so difficult to operate, I don't see the point in using one to get 480i.

[Strider77]

How do you open this thing?

I took out the screws on the top and sides but it won't open. I'm fearful of forcing anything. Do I have to remove all the screws on the back and the VGA scew ins on the back also.

[Dochartaigh]

How do you open this thing?

I took out the screws on the top and sides but it won't open. I'm fearful of forcing anything. Do I have to remove all the screws on the back and the VGA scew ins on the vack?

I honestly forget, but yes, I did take off those VGA screws and everything on the back. I have a feeling I didn't have to take off EVERYTHING, but that was the only way I could get it open initially. Also make sure there's no screws under a sticker that says something like "removing sticker voids warranty".

What are you trying to fiddle with inside? I didn't find anything useful myself.