Status of PSIO?

[ASDR]

If you have one or are following the developments closely, I'd have a few questions!

A PS1 ODE sounds like something I'd very much like to have, but I'm a bit skeptical about the parallel port approach. It would seem very appealing if it was truly plug & play, but since you have to install a switch board anyway it always seemed an internal install like GDemu/Rhea/Phoebe would've been an easier way to get full compatibility. I've been looking at this thing on & off for a while now and am curious what the status in 2018 is.

- So, how well does it work after many years of development? I've heard claims of 99% compatibility, but it seems like they just assume perfect compatibility with the ~2500 titles in the library until proven otherwise. Forum posts over the years mentioned compatibility problems with major titles. The tracker mentions issues with games like Wipeout/Castlevania/Vib Ribbon (bummer, all three are awesome games...). What's the status with current firmware? Is the bug tracker on the site a reliable source?

- How's availability? If I understand their website correctly, they haven't yet shipped all pre-orders from middle of last year but they expect to have a 'final public release' in 2018? Does that mean it'll just be 'in stock' or is that about some kind of quality benchmark for the firmware that they plan to reach this year?

- I've played a lot of PS1 games over the years, but always on PS2, PS3, PSP, RetroPi etc., never owned an actual PS1. Which model would you recommend for a PSIO setup? From what I know so far, don't get any of the first models because they have various design flaws, don't get any of the later models because they removed the parallel port. Anything else? How about PAL vs NTSC, I assume that even with a PSIO you still want the NTSC console as PSIO can't change the video region/mode?

- The PSIO comes with various pieces of companion software like a tool to make CU2 sheets (whatever those are), and like always that's Windows-only. Are those just available somewhere or do I have to fire up the old XP laptop / VMWare to prepare my SD card for PSIO?

Thanks!

[Syntax]

There was talk of making a PSOne version so it may still be able to be an internal mod.

For the moment I'm just going to forget about it till it becomes available.

If your looking for a PS1 to pair up with it anything with an expansion slot will do fine, just remember 50hz games don't play properly on a 60hz machine and vica verca.

If you install a dual oscillator then they will automatically play properly.

[nmalinoski]

- How's availability? If I understand their website correctly, they haven't yet shipped all pre-orders from middle of last year but they expect to have a 'final public release' in 2018? Does that mean it'll just be 'in stock' or is that about some kind of quality benchmark for the firmware that they plan to reach this year?

I'd say current availability is poor, because I ordered in January (I believe they had just announced the final hardware revision), and the confirmation email stated that it wouldn't be shipping until sometime between May and July 2018. They seem to be a small operation, and this is a new, niche, boutique product, so I'm assuming low production throughput. I would expect it to be much easier to get one of these by the end of 2018, but I've seen how unavailable other ODEs (like, as you mentioned, the GDEmu, Rhea, and Phoebe) can be.

- I've played a lot of PS1 games over the years, but always on PS2, PS3, PSP, RetroPi etc., never owned an actual PS1. Which model would you recommend for a PSIO setup? From what I know so far, don't get any of the first models because they have various design flaws, don't get any of the later models because they removed the parallel port. Anything else? How about PAL vs NTSC, I assume that even with a PSIO you still want the NTSC console as PSIO can't change the video region/mode?

So, as you said, early models have problems, and later models have the parallel port removed. The middle ground seems to be the SCPH-5501. As I understand it, while this model doesn't have the RCA connectors directly on it like the earlier models, it benefits from the improvements in the CD drive positioning, and it retains both the parallel port and the supposedly-better DAC.

It is supposedly possible to install the PSIO on latter revisions, including the PSone, but it would involve installing 40+ wires. (Would probably make for a good Voultar video.)

NTSC vs PAL is pretty moot. Once you get past the region locking (which I believe the PSIO will do; if it somehow doesn't, might have to patch the disc images), the console should automatically switch video region. The sticking point is that consoles earlier than, I think, the PSone won't run the other mode with the correct subcarrier frequency (So PAL timings on NTSC will be off, and vice versa).

Most of the time, you won't be able to tell that your NTSC console isn't running a PAL game at the correct speed, but you will most definitely have trouble playing music and rhythm games, like Dance Dance Revolution; the music will play at the correct speed, but the notes will drift off-beat, because the scrolling speed is locked to the framerate, which is off. The fix for this is a dual-frequency oscillator, which VideoGamePerfection sells, but the installation documentation for it is very poor, and only covers one board revision. (So maybe another good Voultar video?)

- The PSIO comes with various pieces of companion software like a tool to make CU2 sheets (whatever those are), and like always that's Windows-only. Are those just available somewhere or do I have to fire up the old XP laptop / VMWare to prepare my SD card for PSIO?

You don't need the Windows software (PSIO Systems Console) to prepare your SD card; just format it as FAT32, copy the menu system over, and copy the disc images. You would only need the Windows software if you want to convert regular cuesheets to the CU2 cuesheets.

There seem to be collections of CU2 cuesheets (and cover images) floating around, but not from Cybdyn directly. I expect these files will become more available as the PSIO itself becomes more available. (Someone will make collections of these available.)

And on that note, it seems that the CU2 cuesheets are only required if the game's disc image has CDDA tracks (although this requirement may be if the disc image has multiple tracks period), so you likely won't need them for everything.

[ASDR]

So a 6 months wait time, better than some other products Did they say they plan to make it available this year, mass-produced? I don't really get that graph on the PSIO front page, why do they have ~5 pre-order batches that are not fulfilled. I mean, why open another batch if you haven't completed the past 4? I don't really get the idea here

I'm just getting an NTSC PS1 then. Was just wondering if there are other criteria to look out for apart from the early ones having failing optical drives and the later ones missing the parallel port. Since compatibility might not be 100% with PSIO it would be good to have a working drive and be able to go the modchip + CD-R route as well. Middle revision it is then. I did an oscillator swap on my MD with a part I ordered from AliExpress, was simple and also cheaper than the dual mode oscillator from VGP, especially since I likely will never need proper PAL on it. I guess like I said I'd just get an NTSC unit, not worth it bothering with potential sync/timing problems or another mod.

I don't get why they don't just distribute the CU2 files, they're just track layout descriptors from what I can tell. But you're right, this will likely be solved as soon as Smoke Monster gets one of these

Their FAQ had a blurb about PSOne support, but it said you'd have to solder 40 wires to the board. That's just more work and will likely have the same compatibility. I was hoping for an internal mod where you just have to unplug a ribbon cable or other connector and then simply have a 'normal' drive replacement without whatever parallel port shenanigans they're doing that cause compatibility problems.

Probably best to just wait for the 'final' release, hope availability improves and see if people are happy with the compatibility of the final product.

[nmalinoski]

I'm just getting an NTSC PS1 then. Was just wondering if there are other criteria to look out for apart from the early ones having failing optical drives and the later ones missing the parallel port. Since compatibility might not be 100% with PSIO it would be good to have a working drive and be able to go the modchip + CD-R route as well.

If you come across a PlayStation that otherwise fits your bill, but has a failed optical drive, you can easily get a replacement (new old stock). It drops right in and connects with a ribbon cable. When you're looking, get a KSM-440BAM; it's designed for the PSone, but at least the ones from TotalConsole come with an extension for use on the older PlayStations. I specifically bought this one on Amazon for my SCPH-5501, although they seem to have gone up in price since (Got mine for $23; now $30).

Their FAQ had a blurb about PSOne support, but it said you'd have to solder 40 wires to the board. That's just more work and will likely have the same compatibility. I was hoping for an internal mod where you just have to unplug a ribbon cable or other connector and then simply have a 'normal' drive replacement without whatever parallel port shenanigans they're doing that cause compatibility problems.

Designing PSIO as a drop-in replacement, like the GDEmu, was floated, but the designers really wanted to maintain compatibility with original games, thus the cartridge design. That said, I'd also like to see a completely-internal version; there's a lot of empty space in both the original PlayStation and the PSone, and I think it would be really neat to have a slot cut in the unused part of the disc bay for a microSD card.

[ASDR]

If you come across a PlayStation that otherwise fits your bill, but has a failed optical drive, you can easily get a replacement (new old stock). It drops right in and connects with a ribbon cable. When you're looking, get a KSM-440BAM; it's designed for the PSone, but at least the ones from TotalConsole come with an extension for use on the older PlayStations. I specifically bought this one on Amazon for my SCPH-5501, although they seem to have gone up in price since (Got mine for $23; now $30).

Interesting, I thought that all replacement lasers assemblies are low-quality clones. I see them on eBay all the time shipped from China for ten bucks or so. Difficulty is probably finding genuine new old stock vs clones. But good to see this is at least an option. If the PSIO never becomes easily available and the compatibility issues are not solved I guess I could re-purpose my Saturn CD-R shelf space once I get a Satiator and live the CD-R live on the PS1 till there's a better solution, heh.

Designing PSIO as a drop-in replacement, like the GDEmu, was floated, but the designers really wanted to maintain compatibility with original games, thus the cartridge design. That said, I'd also like to see a completely-internal version; there's a lot of empty space in both the original PlayStation and the PSone, and I think it would be really neat to have a slot cut in the unused part of the disc bay for a microSD card.

Ugh, seems like a really poor choice to me :/ An internal mod would likely have a much simpler, reversible install (no soldering & trace cutting), probably have much better compatibility (other ODEs seem to be near-perfect without years of tweaking), wouldn't have a big dongle sticking out of your PS1, they wouldn't need to manufacture a shell, etc. The only reason to keep the drive around is anyway the lacking compatibility.

[nmalinoski]

Designing PSIO as a drop-in replacement, like the GDEmu, was floated, but the designers really wanted to maintain compatibility with original games, thus the cartridge design. That said, I'd also like to see a completely-internal version; there's a lot of empty space in both the original PlayStation and the PSone, and I think it would be really neat to have a slot cut in the unused part of the disc bay for a microSD card.

Ugh, seems like a really poor choice to me :/ An internal mod would likely have a much simpler, reversible install (no soldering & trace cutting), probably have much better compatibility (other ODEs seem to be near-perfect without years of tweaking), wouldn't have a big dongle sticking out of your PS1, they wouldn't need to manufacture a shell, etc. The only reason to keep the drive around is anyway the lacking compatibility.

I don't disagree; a drop-in replacement for the PS1's CD drive assembly, much like the GDEmu, would be extremely easy to install and likely have 100% compatibility. You and I would be perfectly satisfied with this kind of solution, but, again, it doesn't satisfy the designers' goal of maintaining compatibility with physical media. :/

I understand part of the reason they want a separate device is for loading the menu, but they very well could do what GDMenu does for GDEmu and have their menu load as a sort of boot disc (not unlike the GameShark or PS-X-Change) which could then launch whatever game is selected.

[Fudoh]

I'd say current availability is poor, because I ordered in January (I believe they had just announced the final hardware revision), and the confirmation email stated that it wouldn't be shipping until sometime between May and July 2018

I ordered and paid in June 2017 and haven't heard from them since.

[cr4zymanz0r]

I have one. The upside of it connecting to the parallel port is if there is a problem game, worst case scenario I can still use the game disc.
The switchboard that you do have to install is not a novice project like a modchip install would be. It's one of the few times I've actively had to use a magnifying glass while soldering and cutting traces. many of the traces you have to cut are very close to other traces so you have to be extremely careful and exact. You're also having to solder to tiny little vias as well. For me it initially didn't work after the switchboard install, but after reflowing the pins on the parallel port it was fine.

This is a good resource to see compatiblity issues, but it is not all encompassing http://www.cybdyn-systems.com.au:82/bro ... ?filter=-5. I submitted a graphics bug for Captain Commando months ago, and it just got added a few days ago. On the flipside, about the same time I submitted a booting bug for Namco Musuem Volume 3 and it was added to the list in a few days. I also know that a friend has tried some lesser known Japanese games and ran into some issues that aren't on the list, but I'm unsure if he submitted a bug report either. Some bugs aren't game breaking either. Symphony of the Night has an issue where the streaming audio (.str?, not CD audio) for the music is lower quality than it is from the disc. It's not dramatic and in my opinion would be hard to notice on typical TV speakers, but becomes more apparent if you've got a sound bar or something better. I believe this would affect all games using the .str format since it's basically a flaw in their current decoder that they will be addressing.

It works great with tons of games, but unfortunately there are sometimes compatibility issues with some popular titles. They are actively updating the firmware, but the pace seems much slower than similar ODE projects. From their forum posts I get the impression that the hardware production side is eating into the firmware development time. I don't know about more recent runs of it, but I ordered mine back in 2016 I think where it went on sale at 6am (CST) or something like that and their website was absolutely hammered with people trying to order. Probably took me 30min to finally get my order through. After that I had to wait months to get it because they were still in the process of producing them (they were pretty upfront about the wait).

To summarize, getting it currently seems like trying to catch a unicorn (though they seem to be trying to fix supply issues), compatibility is overall decent but not as good as we're use to with other ODEs such as gdemu/rhea/etc., and they are still working on firmware updates to fix bugs and add new features (such as them working on having a memory card manager to backup save to the SD card, or import from it).

[ASDR]

Thanks for the information everybody!

Looks like this is not the solution I'm looking for. I did soldering to vias before and cut some tight traces around QFP chips, but I'd rather not do it on an NTSC console that I have to import :/ Those get pricey after shipping & customs. Then there are the compatibility issues and uncertain schedule around everything. Unclear when I'll be able to buy one and when it'll be delivered. Reading through the forum also seems like there is a lot to be done and there will eventually be a better solution that doesn't require a switchboard or can be done internally.

It's an interesting device and they have some big plans, but they started working on this 2010/12-ish and there seems to be no end in sight when it's actually available in quantity and the software is in a shape where the basic ODE part is done.

I guess the only sensible thing is to wait :/ Maybe kevtris will make an FPGA PS1 or somebody figures out how to make something like OPL for PS1 games on PS2

[Syntax]

You can convert ps1 images to work with ps2 OPL and play them with the Sony PS1 emulator Popstarter.

[ASDR]

You can convert ps1 images to work with ps2 OPL and play them with the Sony PS1 emulator Popstarter.

Sure, but that's just emulation and I already have that on the PSP & Raspberry (I guess I could also coerce the PS3, OG XBox & Wii U into running a PS1 emu). The software emulation of PS1 on a PS2 is not that great :/

For now it seems the only options to play pirated games on actual hardware are PS1 with modchip, PS2 with modchip or PS1 with PSIO.

[Syntax]

It doesn't matter if you run a ps1 title via OPL or run it from a burnt disc on a chipped ps2 its still using Popstarter.

Having said that I very recently had a play with some burnt titles on a PS2 then PS1 and the difference is quite noticeable.

Input delay and music reproduction kills it for me, the PS1 is the only option for PS1 games imo.

[FBX]

I pre-ordered mine back in June, and supposedly it will finally be shipping at the end of next month. That's for those of us that pre-ordered way back then. New customers will have a longer wait. However, the firmware is continually being updated and refined, and they expect to eventually some day have it down to it's either 100% compatible with all games or maybe a couple that don't work. Right now, they are discovering some games were programmed based on 'bugs' in the playstation hardware that they are having to imitate to get the game functioning properly.

I'm excited to get mine hopefully on the time schedule that's currently claimed. I've been wanting one of those for a couple years now it seems.

I ordered and paid in June 2017 and haven't heard from them since.

You have to go to their web site to see updates. Our June orders are currently expected to ship at the end of next month.

[Thomas83lin]

I'd say current availability is poor, because I ordered in January (I believe they had just announced the final hardware revision), and the confirmation email stated that it wouldn't be shipping until sometime between May and July 2018

I ordered and paid in June 2017 and haven't heard from them since.

Wow is it seriously almost 10 months for you? I think it took me close to 5 months to receive my psio and I thought that was bad. I think I was second batch maybe, first day per order though. around march 2016

[Xyga]

Guess I'll settle on getting spare parts to fix my PS1 and that'll be it.

No way I can deal with such difficult soldering, compatibility issues, and Watermelon-like availability/shipping updates.

[ASDR]

It doesn't matter if you run a ps1 title via OPL or run it from a burnt disc on a chipped ps2 its still using Popstarter.

Having said that I very recently had a play with some burnt titles on a PS2 then PS1 and the difference is quite noticeable.

Input delay and music reproduction kills it for me, the PS1 is the only option for PS1 games imo.

Oh wow, did not know that. I'm just using OPL (and SwapMagic before that) so my PS2 does not have a modchip.

I was shocked by how much latency PS1 on PS3 had when I tried it a while ago. Unusable IMHO. Retail PS1 discs on PS2 seem to work quite well, though. AFAIK they use the real PS1 CPU but the GPU is emulated by the PS2's GS. Seems to work quite well! It's a shame that there's no way to use the PS2's native backwards compatibility with games coming from HDD/USB/ETH :/

So seems like for now all we can hope for is the Cybdyn folks working out the quirks, but given how long they've been working on this it'll not be a quick job

You have to go to their web site to see updates. Our June orders are currently expected to ship at the end of next month.

Can you explain the pre-order system for the uninitiated? They open a new batch with a limited amount of units every couple of months, even though the previous few batches are still not done? What exactly does this '2018 Final Public Release' imply?

[Syntax]

Oh wow, did not know that. I'm just using OPL (and SwapMagic before that) so my PS2 does not have a modchip.

I kind of realised it when trying to acquire the required Popstarter files that are still licenced to Sony. (So super hard to find)

I found it odd that OPL didn't have the ability to natively run PS1 files though, and that you have to go thru the hoops of changing the bins to patched isos, them run them on a patched Popstarter and so on.

Then you have the input delay, added incompatibilities ect. Not worth the hassle IMO when a chipped PS1 is less than $50.

When I looked into Sony's PS1 emulation on the PS2 I found even different models had native incompatibilities which was a surprise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... yStation_2

[ASDR]

you have to go thru the hoops of changing the bins to patched isos, them run them on a patched Popstarter and so on.

I remember reading on psx-scene that there was some internet drama between the Popstarter and OPL people, IIRC that's one of the reasons why this doesn't work more seamless.

Then you have the input delay, added incompatibilities ect. Not worth the hassle IMO when a chipped PS1 is less than $50.

Lag & bugs make it pointless for me, yeah. The PS1 is not a hard system to emulate, so what's the point of going any kind of hardware route when the experience is worse. Same for PSIO, even if there are just small glitches and stuff like the reduced audio quality in Castlevania, why bother with this expensive device and aging original hardware if there are more bugs & glitches than basic emulation.

For me in Europe the issue is getting an NTSC PS1. There's plenty of PAL ones, modchip shouldn't be an issue either, but I rarely if ever see NTSC consoles on eBay locally. Importing one always adds lots of shipping & customs cost.

When I looked into Sony's PS1 emulation on the PS2 I found even different models had native incompatibilities which was a surprise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... yStation_2

Yeah, the slims have some extra problems and later models even lose compatibility with FMCB. As so often with Sony, later consoles just lose features and compatibility

[AaronSR]

It doesn't matter if you run a ps1 title via OPL or run it from a burnt disc on a chipped ps2 its still using Popstarter.

That definitely isn't true. Try playing Tony Hawk games off a disc and then try them in popstarter, its extremely buggy. I'm not entirely sure how it works but when booting a PS1 disc it puts the system into a "PS1 mode" I would assume, making compatibility around 99%ish? popstarter is 80% at best according to the popstarter wiki.

EDIT: Unless a modchip uses the popstarter files and doesn't put it into the "PS1 mode"?

[Syntax]

Technically opl doesn't even play ps1 titles.
It just loads a loader that opens an elf file in ulaunch.

The program which starts the ps1 titles requires some original Sony Popstarter files that have been dumped from the console.

They have effectively built a patched Popstarter that will run on ulaunch but with lower compatability than stock Popstarter.

A modchip uses the stock Popstarter.

2 weeks ago I set up crash bandicoot 1 on a ps1 and ps2 side by side. The PS1 gameplay was much more authentic and it was not a placebo.
I then tried crash on the Ps1 with dithering disabled and it looked awesome.

[AaronSR]

Well I just ordered a modchipped PSone off ebay since my current one stopped working, but yeah I would be willing to send it off if they made a PSIO for PS one (cutting a SD card slot into it or something).

How do you disable the dithering by the way?

[ASDR]

Well I just ordered a modchipped PSone off ebay since my current one stopped working, but yeah I would be willing to send it off if they made a PSIO for PS one (cutting a SD card slot into it or something).

Did you manage to find a seller that shows pictures of the install? I'd also be in the market for a chipped PSone since the PSIO thing doesn't seem like a solution for me in the short-term, but I'd refuse to just buy unseen mod work. Who knows how much hot glue, bubble wrap and bad soldering might be in there

How do you disable the dithering by the way?

http://www.chrismcovell.com/psxdither.html

[Syntax]

Read this thread RE dithering removal, a member here made a handy little tool that automates the patching process.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=61746&hilit=ps1+dithering

Have a play, I loved the results.

Clears up the map in Crash Bandicoot, made THPS super clear and Tekken 3 looked nice for once.

[Syntax]

Pre orders are open

Estimated shipping date September 2018.

[DoomsDave]

Pre orders are open

Estimated shipping date September 2018.

Thank you!