Under Defeat for DC

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:19 am

Frogacuda wrote:Awesome, thanks Kiken. I haven't unlocked a lot of credits yet. I got to the last boss but he messed my world up. Is UD like Ikaruga where you get unlimited credits after 9?

Yep. Once you hit 8 hours of playtime, you unlock Free Play.

Frogacuda · Post by **Frogacuda** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:59 am

What do you have to do to unlock the art galleries?

drsmoo · Post by **drsmoo** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:26 am

which loop would you say is prettier?

greg · Post by **greg** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:30 am

I just ordered mine last night. However, the Segadirect.jp homepage makes no more reference to any poster and stickers included. I'm sure I read this a few weeks ago. I assume that those of you who are ordering the Segadirect version are doing so through a vendor and not Segadirect.jp directly. It might be the only way to get the postser and sticker now. I did order Radilgy there to get the Segadirect exclusive phone card, but I ordered Under Defeat through Amazon.co.jp instead. Slightly cheaper, no tax, free shipping, plus along with it I ordered a Sakura Taisen artbook I've been meaning to get for awhile now.

Did Segadirect.jp stop including the poster and sticker with the orders there, or are my eyes just sleepy now and I'm not reading the Japanese correctly? Does anyone else have the means to order from Segadirect.jp directly? I'm having it shipped to my mother in law's place and I'll be collecting it when I go to Japan next month.

Frogacuda · Post by **Frogacuda** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:32 am

The poster and sticker were pre-order goodies. They're gone.

Guardians Knight · Post by **Guardians Knight** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:07 pm

UD best shoot em up on DC?

or is it just a novelty cos it's new?

drsmoo · Post by **drsmoo** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:26 pm

best? That's pretty subjective. From the shmups I've played it's my favorite though.

Gozur · Post by **Gozur** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:32 pm

I'm also not sure I'd limit it to just the DC arena.

theevilfunkster · Post by **theevilfunkster** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:48 pm

Love the way the first stage boss flys through the flock of birds and chops them up into little pieces

Anyone else had Japanese writing pop up for a few seconds after the cows at the start of the first stage?

Frogacuda · Post by **Frogacuda** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:06 pm

Guardians Knight wrote:UD best shoot em up on DC?

or is it just a novelty cos it's new?

No, it's not the best shmup on DC. I'd still have to give that to Mars Matrix or Border Down, since they have a layer of complexity UD doesn't. Under Defeat is not a terribly deep game. It's a straight forward shooter with an amazing level of polish and detail, and it's great as such.

llabnip · Post by **llabnip** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:27 pm

Frogacuda wrote:No, it's not the best shmup on DC. I'd still have to give that to Mars Matrix or Border Down, since they have a layer of complexity UD doesn't. Under Defeat is not a terribly deep game. It's a straight forward shooter with an amazing level of polish and detail, and it's great as such.

I guess that's why I like it more than Border Down (and much more than Mars Matrix). It's a pure blast-em-up with an incredible polish. Given my level of commitments in life, it's been a long time (since... oh... DC Ikaruga in 2002) since I've logged 10+ flight hours on a game in the first few days of getting it.

The first few eerie seconds of the Graveyard (stage 5) may be my favorite of any game in the genre.

It's a damn fine shooter!

Frogacuda · Post by **Frogacuda** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:51 pm

See, I found Border Down to be deep without sacrificing approachability. You can play it straightfoward and have fun, or you can get into the nitty gritty of it. That's a tough thing to do, and I give due credit to BD for pulling it off. UD has no such ambitions of depth. Mars Matrix is maybe the deepest shooter I've ever played, but it does make it harder to get into.

Anyway, I'm not trying to take anything away from UD. I admire how approachable and instantly enjoyable it is, and I see myself holing a lot of time into it. But I'm not convinced it'll get to the level of BD without that depth.

The mere fact that I'm debating over wether the two DC games this company developed are the best of their kind says volumes about G.Rev, doesn't it? There's been a number of new upstarts in the shooter genre, but G.Rev is the only one that really propelled themselves right into that top teir like that.

Tychom · Post by **Tychom** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:59 pm

See, I'd disagree about the whole UD not being deep thing. I dont think it's a question about scoring depth (which I often consider a crutch for more limited games) but the way you need to position yourself which is entirely unlike any other game in the genre. The game gives you such a narrow attack pattern that with no other choice but to be constantly moving you have to always be one step ahead of the game, not just in your positioning but your attack vector and pod usage. A large amount of precision i needed here- there's no random firing in this game as it'll get you nowhere. You do really need to target each and every enemy exactly and stick there (there's hardly any popcorn enemies in the game).

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:12 am

OK, so my copy showed up today. Sure I can mange to 1 life the first two levels, but the level 3 boss is a bitch (actually the midboss isn't exactly a push over either!)

Still, this one seems managable (IE, with some work, I might at least be able to get close to a 1cc.) Suppose it is time to check out some videos...

ahnslaught · Post by **ahnslaught** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:10 am

Just got my copy in today, and man, is this everything all you folks have said it was and then some! It controls like a dream (The reverse mode feels natural to me as well - I tried playing it normal, and I ended up swerving this way and that like a drunken sailor), and the graphics are even better in my opinion than Gradius 5 because of the real world setting.

If Border Down is anything like this, I gotta track down a copy...too bad I can't find any place that has just a regular copy. Any of you fellas know leads on where i can find one ?

lawnspic · Post by **lawnspic** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:46 am

all in all, this title is not to be missed, i love my DC and i love this game, G-rev did a great job, look forward to more of their fine work

stellarola · Post by **stellarola** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:27 am

Tychom wrote:See, I'd disagree about the whole UD not being deep thing. I dont think it's a question about scoring depth (which I often consider a crutch for more limited games) but the way you need to position yourself which is entirely unlike any other game in the genre. The game gives you such a narrow attack pattern that with no other choice but to be constantly moving you have to always be one step ahead of the game, not just in your positioning but your attack vector and pod usage. A large amount of precision i needed here- there's no random firing in this game as it'll get you nowhere. You do really need to target each and every enemy exactly and stick there (there's hardly any popcorn enemies in the game).

Agreed.

subcons · Post by **subcons** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:06 am

ahnslaught wrote:If Border Down is anything like this, I gotta track down a copy...too bad I can't find any place that has just a regular copy. Any of you fellas know leads on where i can find one ?

I still haven't gotten my copy of UD, but these sound like two very different games.

Just giving you a heads up. It's still definitely worth checking out, because if you like BD, you'll like it a lot.

Frogacuda · Post by **Frogacuda** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:27 am

Tychom wrote:See, I'd disagree about the whole UD not being deep thing. I dont think it's a question about scoring depth (which I often consider a crutch for more limited games) but the way you need to position yourself which is entirely unlike any other game in the genre. The game gives you such a narrow attack pattern that with no other choice but to be constantly moving you have to always be one step ahead of the game, not just in your positioning but your attack vector and pod usage. A large amount of precision i needed here- there's no random firing in this game as it'll get you nowhere. You do really need to target each and every enemy exactly and stick there (there's hardly any popcorn enemies in the game).

Reminds me of Viper Phase 1 in some of those ways. The firing patterns, too. I don't know that I call that depth as much as technique, though.

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:32 am

subcons wrote:I still haven't gotten my copy of UD, but these sound like two very different games.

I hope so. I can't stand Border Down.

drsmoo · Post by **drsmoo** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:34 am

Depth is just another way for a game to be fun. So being deep isn't the only thing that makes a game good. I think Under Defeat is great fun regardless of maybe not being as deep as Border Down (though not being as much of an expert in the genre, I haven't noticed any difference in depth)

stellarola · Post by **stellarola** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:41 am

Hey, if anyone plans on doing a write up on this game, I'd like to add it to my site. I'll pay $5 paypal to a decent review. Check my site here: http://candycabinetcity.tz4.com/

Frogacuda · Post by **Frogacuda** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:53 am

drsmoo wrote:Depth is just another way for a game to be fun. So being deep isn't the only thing that makes a game good. I think Under Defeat is great fun regardless of maybe not being as deep as Border Down

I agree. The thing with having a deep system (and by deep, really I mean flexible in some way, and with complex strategy) is that it rewards experimentation in some way, which makes gameplay more involved. Under Defeat does a fine job and sucking me in regardless though, so there's no denying it's a great game.

Interestingly it appears that Border Down's director/main designer wasn't terribly involved with UD. All he got was a "special thanks" in the credits. Might explain the different feel despite mostly the same staff.

drsmoo · Post by **drsmoo** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:11 am

yeah, senko no ronde seems to be much more in the under defeat style, at least visually.

Frogacuda · Post by **Frogacuda** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:35 am

drsmoo wrote:yeah, senko no ronde seems to be much more in the under defeat style, at least visually.

I assume you mean Border Down not Under Defeat. And actually, all 3 of them used different freelancers for their character and mech design.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:34 pm

There's been a number of new upstarts in the shooter genre, but G.Rev is the only one that really propelled themselves right into that top teir like that.

I'm pretty sure some of them worked on G. Darius, so that would already put them among the best.

UD has heavy Toaplan/Raiden influence (bi-level tank destruction, powerups more or less work exactly the same). Bomb is of the instant ass-saving variety (Raiden DX napalm style). Option gauge is entirely new, AFAIK. 2X points for things killed with options seems derived from G. Darius, also a bit like Gigawing Generations in that you weaken with a secondary weapon (Shot/Reflect respectively) then destroy with a main weapon (Option/Shot) for extra points/medals.

Depth works like Teddy Boy Blues: In what order do I kill the enemies to maximize my score? Also you need to really know the stages, a few times in level 2 I've missed a truck that drives by behind me. At any rate some scores in the HS thread are higher per location than what I'm getting, so I'm going to have to rethink a few parts.

Graphically very nice, blocky Dreamcast 3d but great details like spent shells falling from your heli.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:36 pm

Neon wrote:blocky Dreamcast 3d

You mean blocky Naomi 3D...and what do you expect from 7 year old hardware!

Still better than new TypeX hardware (Raiden III).

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:44 pm

Dave_K. wrote:
Neon wrote:blocky Dreamcast 3d
You mean blocky Naomi 3D. Still better than TypeX Raiden III.

Better than anything on Type X really. I guess they're not taking advantage of the higher specs for easier PS2 ports?

Higher scorers: Which option(s) are you using?

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:03 pm

BTW, whatever happened to Namoi II?? Most of the games, like Under Defeat, just say Naomi.

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:08 pm

it deflated like an old balloon. sega itself moved onto bigger and better things, and the smaller devs stuck to the familiar and cheap to work with Naomi.

...although wild riders was fun... is this mame'd yet? :B