Horizontal Garegga like shmups

stratos · Post by **stratos** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:17 am

This is pure masturbation...

I was thinking that in the latest years we had so few good hori shmups, like Progear, Gradius V and Borderdown. For me it's really bad, since I like very much the genere. I really like also the Garegga system inspired games, like Batrider and Ibara. So I was wondering about an hori shmup with bomb'n suicide mechanics Shinobu Yagawa style.

What do you think? Let's discuss

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 11:42 pm

I`d really like to hear if there is any other shooter with suicide tactics. I think this is pretty much Raizing-only. Correct me if I`m wrong.

Besides, this technique is far more revolutionary than all this Psyvariar-Gigawing stuff. Its not just buzzing bullets/enemies, its crashing into them, which goes even more against the oldschool shmuppers instincts.

benj · Post by **benj** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:19 am

FrederikJurk wrote:I`d really like to hear if there is any other shooter with suicide tactics. I think this is pretty much Raizing-only. Correct me if I`m wrong.

Besides, this technique is far more revolutionary than all this Psyvariar-Gigawing stuff. Its not just buzzing bullets/enemies, its crashing into them, which goes even more against the oldschool shmuppers instincts.

You should try out Hitogata Happa. The most suicide-centric game I've ever played. To get a good score in this game you have to wait until there are a lot of enemies on screen, then you crash into one of them to start a chain reaction. It isn't quite Raizing, as the reasons to suicide are different, but if you're into killing yourself in videogames you should definitely check it out.

Post by **Icarus** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:12 am

FrederikJurk wrote:I`d really like to hear if there is any other shooter with suicide tactics. I think this is pretty much Raizing-only. Correct me if I`m wrong.

Errr... Border Down? Maybe not to the scale of a Raizing game, but it's pretty close ^_-

Then there's Every Extend. While not strictly a shmup, I'd describe it as a suicide-em-up ^_^

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:23 am

benj wrote:To get a good score in this game you have to wait until there are a lot of enemies on screen, then you crash into one of them to start a chain reaction.

Heck, not even just for scoring, but just for survival, when it comes to bosses...if you want to take one out before its timer runs out (and it proceeds to get VERY angry with you), you've got to use your regular/special shots to wear down its extra parts/shields, and then sneak past its bullets to crash into it to do significant damage.

In truth, though, no shmup I can think of (aside from Ibara, anyways) requires you to know and keep track of as much stuff as Garegga does, and few encourage similar tactics to what it demands.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:15 am

You want suicide tactics? Play Every Extend on the PC. The only way to even attack, is to blow yourself up =D Then you have to get enough points through explosion chaining to gain an extra life, or you'll eventually run dry.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:31 pm

Maybe my point was that, in a Raizing game, suiciding is something that must be planned and can lead to an early game over if done wrong - and most of the time you DO dodge all the barrage.

When it comes to buzzing (similar technique - risk/reward) Radiant Silvergun was a game where you could level your weapons up faster if you buzzed bullets or enemies (if I recall that right - never played it). Psyvariar in my opinion overdid it because buzzing was the centric game element. If you didn`t buzz the whole game wouldn`t make any sense because your score would suck and your level progression would end very soon.

What I wanted to say is, that unlike in a dedicated game (EveryExtend, or Skratch It! which is a buzzing game played with mouse but also without shooting) suiciding in a quite conservative shmup is something far riskier. Garegga, Bakraid, Batrider or Ibara aren`t suicide shmups in the first place but its rather a technique that must be applied extremely carefully - and this is why it feels so awkward and unnatural at first.

(I am still at the very beginning with Raizing games

)

Oh, and is there a trial version of Hitogata Hapa? Can`t find it on the japanese site. Looks extremely good!

benj · Post by **benj** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:37 pm

FrederikJurk wrote: Oh, and is there a trial version of Hitogata Hapa? Can`t find it on the japanese site. Looks extremely good!

>>Click me!<<

As for a shooter where you should carefully plan your suicide instead of just slamming into enemies to score high, I'd suggest Border Down. Like Icarus said, not exactly Raizing, but close.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:02 pm

Thanks for the link! I guess I will try Border Down someday. EveryExtend is quite addicting, once I realized how it works. And nice electronic music too.

stratos · Post by **stratos** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:56 pm

Uhm, I've seen two replays of Borderdown, the first two levels posted by (if I remember) VTF-INO, and he never suicides. Can you explain?

Randorama · Post by **Randorama** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:25 pm

Border Down's ST

In a nutshell: you don't suicide, you Border Down in key spots to score more and do nifty tricks, after having the rank gone bonkers.

Oh, and the intro and the plot is an homage to Harlock, in case you wonder.

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:48 pm

benj wrote: You should try out Hitogata Happa. The most suicide-centric game I've ever played. To get a good score in this game you have to wait until there are a lot of enemies on screen, then you crash into one of them to start a chain reaction. It isn't quite Raizing, as the reasons to suicide are different, but if you're into killing yourself in videogames you should definitely check it out.

That looks great. Does anyone know where I can buy it?

I see references to game prices (some are 1000Y, some 1500Y) but nowhere to actually slap my details in and order a copy.

benj · Post by **benj** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:00 am

Himeya still has it in stock. Or, if you're feeling lucky, you could wait and see if http://www.paletweb.com/ gets some more copies in, as they are usually the better (and cheaper) source for doujins.

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:12 am

benj wrote:Himeya still has it in stock

How exactly does a 1000Y title become a US$26 title?

Anyways... thanks for the links. I've been keen to get into doujin stuff for a while, so I'll be buying a few titles ASAP.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:38 am

FrederikJurk wrote:When it comes to buzzing (similar technique - risk/reward) Radiant Silvergun was a game where you could level your weapons up faster if you buzzed bullets or enemies (if I recall that right - never played it).

Scratching bullets in RSG does get you a small amount of points, which does help your weapons level up, but points gained from scratching are pretty much insignificant compared to what you get from chaining, boss disassembling, etc. As such, I wouldn't put RSG in the same category as the other shmups you mentioned.

Randorama wrote:...you don't suicide, you Border Down...

ARRRRGGGHHH!

stratos · Post by **stratos** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:18 pm

Thanks for the infos... I've read Randorama Borderdown review and learned about the suicide/borderdown system... cool. Thinking about it, the powerup system really reminds me Metal Black

Slightly going OT, however...

Ah, Taito, the grandfather of ALL the modern shmups