Hi everyone I am new to this community, and as I am just setting up my retro console collection I have run into a few questions. I have been rebuilding my collection of games and consoles that I grew up with after foolishly seling them about 10 years ago when my son was born (my god have the prices changed).
Anyway, I now have a PVM-20L5 and an Extron Matrix Switch. Most of my consoles are connected via RGB, but there are a few oddballs. My 7800, Gamecube, and 3DO are S-Video, my Colecovision and Intellivision are composite, and my PS2, Xbox, Dreamcast, and Wii are Component.
I have separate Composite, S-Video, RGB/Component outputs from the matrix switcher. I was wondering if anyone knew of a way to have the PVM set to component whenever a component source is set on the extron and RGB whenever an RGB source is set? An even better option would be some type of remote interface where I select a console and it tunes the extron and PVM to the correct input/output configuration.
For example, selecting 3DO would set the 3DO input to the S-Video output on the extron and switch the PVM to the S-Video input, selecting Dreamcast would set the Dreamcast input to the RGB/Component output on the extron and set the RGB/Component input on the PVM in component mode, selecting Famicom would set the Famicom input to the RGB/Component output on the extron and switch the PVM to the RGB/Component input in RGB ext sync mode.
I have searched a few forums and reddits, but I have not found a solution. Since both the PVM-20L5 amd the Extron RGB Matrix Switch have inputs for remote controls, this should be do able and probably easy for someome with the right skillset, but since I do not possess the skills to design a system like this I am hoping maybe someone who does has designed something like this for their own similar setup.
Thanks for reading/replying - retro gaming rocks!
TL/DR: a remote control interface linking PVM-20L5 and Extron RGB Matrix?
PVM & Extron Remote Control
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Dochartaigh
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:53 pm
Re: PVM & Extron Remote Control
Couple ideas:
For starters, when you say "Extron Matrix switch" do you mean an Extron Crosspoint? If so, the Crosspoint has the ability to save presets. I have little labels that go on each button (like #1-9 or something) which tell me which system it is at a quick glance (and they look cool
. So if I want to play SNES over RGB I hit PRESET + 2 + ENTER and it'll take the SNES's signal and throw it to my monitor's RGB input. If I want to play GameCube over S-Video, I hit PRESET + 8 + ENTER on the Crosspoint and it'll throw that S-Video system from the GC and throw it to the S-Video input on my monitor. You DO have to key in the preset on the Crosspoint AND put your PVM into the correct mode though (choose the monitors' input, INT or EXT sync, etc.) - nothing does that automatically I know of. --- Side note: having a 129x input card on your 20L5 will help to more quickly switch from RGBS to YPbPr/Component I've been told (instead of having to go a couple menus deep on the 20L5 to switch from RGBS to YPbPr).
Idea 2: if you're super handy with electronics look at the Parallel Remote Terminal section on page 25 of the L5's manual - you can setup which line in the monitor goes to + choose the sync (internal or external), underscan, aspect ration, etc. I just don't know what type of device could be programmed like this unless you're into Arduino computers and all that. Maybe if you're that skilled with that stuff you could have it auto-switch when you choose a certain preset on the Crosspoint...(but probably more work than it's worth)
Idea 3: The Extron Crosspoints can be controlled remotely by many devices which use the Simple Instruction Set protocol (an ASCII code type language). This includes some fancy (back in the day) touchscreen LED/LCD type devices even. There was also an iPhone App (no longer made and not available on the App Store anymore) which interfaced via WiFi with your Crosspoint (hooked up via Ethernet) which could auto switch whatever you want with the press of a button (still no way to hook it up to have your monitor auto-switch though).
Idea 4: You can use a Sony BKM-10R remote, the type usually mounted underneath a BVM, to control some limited aspects of your PVM-20L5 (page 20 of the 20L5's manual) - I don't even know if it works by itself - may need a BVM as well to even test it out. If it does work by itself, I still don't know if this would help you, but perhaps if you mounted the controller right next to your Crosspoint in your rack they would at least be right next to each other so with a couple button presses you could do what you wanted to do (instead of having to hit buttons on the Crospsoint, then move over to the monitor and hit some more buttons). I never had much luck with doing anything meaningful with the BVM's controller on my 20L5's though - let me know if you figure out anything cool here (I never really spent too much time on it).
Idea 5: You could standardize ALL of your signals into RGBS. This involves a lot of hardware - some of it hard to find and not that cheap. I have a device (in the mail right now actually) which will take Composite and S-Video and convert it to RGBS (keep in mind this doesn't make the signal RGB quality magically or anything - it's still a lower quality signal, just converted to RGBS). I have another box which converts YPbPr/Component into RGBS. I can take the RGBHV (VGA) signal out of my MAME Windows PC and convert it to RGBS. This way, if you have an automatic switcher setup, and everything running through these converters/transcoders (might take multiple converters of each type...), it would be as simple as turning on the video game console and it would automatically come up on your RGBS monitor.
My own setup is decently automated. I have those presets setup on my Extron Crosspoint to switch to a certain console with 3 button presses (even complicated things like taking a 480p signal, throwing it onto my 20L5, then transcoding that same signal into 480i to throw onto a SD monitor - all done with a transcoder box + the preset I previously setup on the Crosspoint, and still only 3x button presses: PRESET button + Preset # + ENTER). You could also easily have this process automated by using an automatic SCART switcher like the Gscartsw_lite or Hydra or Bandridge or whatnot (although those are mere husks of what a Crosspoint can do functionality wise
Paired with the above I mostly use my BVM's presets to make things easy (20L5 is in storage and lacks these features I'm going to talk about). The BVM's let you make up to 95 presets. I have mine matching the presets of the Crosspoint. So for my example above, after I key in Preset #2 for SNES on the Crosspoint, I simply press "2" on my BVM and it knows to use it's stock RGBS input card, 4:3 aspect ratio, and can even shift the image left or right to center the signal from the SNES. For GameCube, I key in Preset #8 on the Crosspoint, then hit "8" on the BVM and the BVM knows to change the input to my S-Video Input card (BKM-24N), inputs #1 and #3 for the Y/C of S-Video. I've even daisy chained multiple BVM's together and controlled them by 1 single BKM-10R controller before (which you can choose if ALL the monitors do the same thing, or you can control each individually).
For starters, when you say "Extron Matrix switch" do you mean an Extron Crosspoint? If so, the Crosspoint has the ability to save presets. I have little labels that go on each button (like #1-9 or something) which tell me which system it is at a quick glance (and they look cool
. So if I want to play SNES over RGB I hit PRESET + 2 + ENTER and it'll take the SNES's signal and throw it to my monitor's RGB input. If I want to play GameCube over S-Video, I hit PRESET + 8 + ENTER on the Crosspoint and it'll throw that S-Video system from the GC and throw it to the S-Video input on my monitor. You DO have to key in the preset on the Crosspoint AND put your PVM into the correct mode though (choose the monitors' input, INT or EXT sync, etc.) - nothing does that automatically I know of. --- Side note: having a 129x input card on your 20L5 will help to more quickly switch from RGBS to YPbPr/Component I've been told (instead of having to go a couple menus deep on the 20L5 to switch from RGBS to YPbPr).Idea 2: if you're super handy with electronics look at the Parallel Remote Terminal section on page 25 of the L5's manual - you can setup which line in the monitor goes to + choose the sync (internal or external), underscan, aspect ration, etc. I just don't know what type of device could be programmed like this unless you're into Arduino computers and all that. Maybe if you're that skilled with that stuff you could have it auto-switch when you choose a certain preset on the Crosspoint...(but probably more work than it's worth)
Idea 3: The Extron Crosspoints can be controlled remotely by many devices which use the Simple Instruction Set protocol (an ASCII code type language). This includes some fancy (back in the day) touchscreen LED/LCD type devices even. There was also an iPhone App (no longer made and not available on the App Store anymore) which interfaced via WiFi with your Crosspoint (hooked up via Ethernet) which could auto switch whatever you want with the press of a button (still no way to hook it up to have your monitor auto-switch though).
Idea 4: You can use a Sony BKM-10R remote, the type usually mounted underneath a BVM, to control some limited aspects of your PVM-20L5 (page 20 of the 20L5's manual) - I don't even know if it works by itself - may need a BVM as well to even test it out. If it does work by itself, I still don't know if this would help you, but perhaps if you mounted the controller right next to your Crosspoint in your rack they would at least be right next to each other so with a couple button presses you could do what you wanted to do (instead of having to hit buttons on the Crospsoint, then move over to the monitor and hit some more buttons). I never had much luck with doing anything meaningful with the BVM's controller on my 20L5's though - let me know if you figure out anything cool here (I never really spent too much time on it).
Idea 5: You could standardize ALL of your signals into RGBS. This involves a lot of hardware - some of it hard to find and not that cheap. I have a device (in the mail right now actually) which will take Composite and S-Video and convert it to RGBS (keep in mind this doesn't make the signal RGB quality magically or anything - it's still a lower quality signal, just converted to RGBS). I have another box which converts YPbPr/Component into RGBS. I can take the RGBHV (VGA) signal out of my MAME Windows PC and convert it to RGBS. This way, if you have an automatic switcher setup, and everything running through these converters/transcoders (might take multiple converters of each type...), it would be as simple as turning on the video game console and it would automatically come up on your RGBS monitor.
My own setup is decently automated. I have those presets setup on my Extron Crosspoint to switch to a certain console with 3 button presses (even complicated things like taking a 480p signal, throwing it onto my 20L5, then transcoding that same signal into 480i to throw onto a SD monitor - all done with a transcoder box + the preset I previously setup on the Crosspoint, and still only 3x button presses: PRESET button + Preset # + ENTER). You could also easily have this process automated by using an automatic SCART switcher like the Gscartsw_lite or Hydra or Bandridge or whatnot (although those are mere husks of what a Crosspoint can do functionality wise
Paired with the above I mostly use my BVM's presets to make things easy (20L5 is in storage and lacks these features I'm going to talk about). The BVM's let you make up to 95 presets. I have mine matching the presets of the Crosspoint. So for my example above, after I key in Preset #2 for SNES on the Crosspoint, I simply press "2" on my BVM and it knows to use it's stock RGBS input card, 4:3 aspect ratio, and can even shift the image left or right to center the signal from the SNES. For GameCube, I key in Preset #8 on the Crosspoint, then hit "8" on the BVM and the BVM knows to change the input to my S-Video Input card (BKM-24N), inputs #1 and #3 for the Y/C of S-Video. I've even daisy chained multiple BVM's together and controlled them by 1 single BKM-10R controller before (which you can choose if ALL the monitors do the same thing, or you can control each individually).
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Aquamentus
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:59 pm
Re: PVM & Extron Remote Control
For me the biggest pain is the RGB/Component switching on the PVM. First world problems I know but for a friend or my kids to understand its complex. I’ve thought about getting the input card but they are pricey from what i have heard.
Is there any reduction in quallity using a converter to go from component to RGBS and/or VGA to RGBS? Will that work with 480P from PS2, Xbox, and Dreamcast?
I was originally thinking of some arduino type setup that would interface with the crosspoint and pvm remote control ports and have an IR remote or broadcast a web control page over LAN or even have hardwired buttons. Something like a harmony remote does with “scenes” except outputting to the PVM and Crosspoint. Unfortunately its a bit over my head, at least for the time being, I could probably figure it out but would requore a large investment in time to learn the coding and design the setup. I was hoping if I was lucky someone better than I had done something like this that I could easily replicate.
Is there any reduction in quallity using a converter to go from component to RGBS and/or VGA to RGBS? Will that work with 480P from PS2, Xbox, and Dreamcast?
I was originally thinking of some arduino type setup that would interface with the crosspoint and pvm remote control ports and have an IR remote or broadcast a web control page over LAN or even have hardwired buttons. Something like a harmony remote does with “scenes” except outputting to the PVM and Crosspoint. Unfortunately its a bit over my head, at least for the time being, I could probably figure it out but would requore a large investment in time to learn the coding and design the setup. I was hoping if I was lucky someone better than I had done something like this that I could easily replicate.
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Dochartaigh
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:53 pm
Re: PVM & Extron Remote Control
On the PVM side, your first problem is the 20L5's design and controls I'm sorry to say. They went back to the cheaper-to-produce profeel design on the L5 which doesn't have any physical dials and no good clicky buttons on it (just a single vinyl row on either side with the crappy bubble-type buttons).
And you're totally right, I forget the exact number but just to switch from RGBS to YPbPr it's literally something like 11 button presses to get into that menu and change it!!! That's annoying as hell. On a BVM, with a preset setup, it's literally a single button press. Even over a regular PVM (think 20M4, 20M2, 1954Q, etc) having to turn the lights on the L5's buttons on/off makes it 2 extra button presses no matter what you're doing on the L5 - very annoying. Anyway, like I said, I believe if you get a BKM-129x card, and have the YPbPr/Component run directly to that you would just have to press the "Option A" button (or whatever it is to switch to that card) and it'll save how it's YPbPr for that card - then you can switch back and forth from RGBS through the stock input, then YPbPr on the 129x card. Those cards are about ~$110-150+ on eBay though (oops, that was last week...now $200-250...).
Anyway, with the right converter you most likely won't notice a difference - at least a negative difference - colors may shift ever so slightly (which is also dictated but how your monitor's calibration is setup to handle Component vs RGB). The converter I use for YPbPr to RGBS is the Extron CVC 200 which is just as pricy as the above 129x card (actually, there's one up for $95 now...usually like $170-250...). I use that specifically for Xbox in 480p. If you use it for a 480i YPbPr source you'll have to change the dial in the back.
For PS2, I would go through your games and see which you have which is actually in 480p. Of my 20 or 30 games there's literally ONE single game I play (God of War) which actually outputs 480p - the vast majority are 480i. You can also use a simple RGB SCART cable for the PS2 - which can also transmit 480p signal (think it's RGsB or something so you have to change the sync from external to internal or something like that...less wires to run and no switching of wires from RGBS to YPbPr at least).
Dreamcast is difficult as some games won't boot in 480p over VGA, so you might have to get a $80 Toro (or similar) with the switch to go from 15khz/480i to 480p over VGA (which the Toro can merge that into a RGBS signal over either the VGA of the SCART port).
Again, no easy way to go about all this and it does cost money.
And you're totally right, I forget the exact number but just to switch from RGBS to YPbPr it's literally something like 11 button presses to get into that menu and change it!!! That's annoying as hell. On a BVM, with a preset setup, it's literally a single button press. Even over a regular PVM (think 20M4, 20M2, 1954Q, etc) having to turn the lights on the L5's buttons on/off makes it 2 extra button presses no matter what you're doing on the L5 - very annoying. Anyway, like I said, I believe if you get a BKM-129x card, and have the YPbPr/Component run directly to that you would just have to press the "Option A" button (or whatever it is to switch to that card) and it'll save how it's YPbPr for that card - then you can switch back and forth from RGBS through the stock input, then YPbPr on the 129x card. Those cards are about ~$110-150+ on eBay though (oops, that was last week...now $200-250...).
Anyway, with the right converter you most likely won't notice a difference - at least a negative difference - colors may shift ever so slightly (which is also dictated but how your monitor's calibration is setup to handle Component vs RGB). The converter I use for YPbPr to RGBS is the Extron CVC 200 which is just as pricy as the above 129x card (actually, there's one up for $95 now...usually like $170-250...). I use that specifically for Xbox in 480p. If you use it for a 480i YPbPr source you'll have to change the dial in the back.
For PS2, I would go through your games and see which you have which is actually in 480p. Of my 20 or 30 games there's literally ONE single game I play (God of War) which actually outputs 480p - the vast majority are 480i. You can also use a simple RGB SCART cable for the PS2 - which can also transmit 480p signal (think it's RGsB or something so you have to change the sync from external to internal or something like that...less wires to run and no switching of wires from RGBS to YPbPr at least).
Dreamcast is difficult as some games won't boot in 480p over VGA, so you might have to get a $80 Toro (or similar) with the switch to go from 15khz/480i to 480p over VGA (which the Toro can merge that into a RGBS signal over either the VGA of the SCART port).
Again, no easy way to go about all this and it does cost money.