1080p Wii U games in 720p or 1080i?

[Lawfer]

Manual: http://www.broadcaststore.com/pdf/model ... manual.pdf

Hey thanks!

you CAN, yes, but these aren't internally rendered in 1080i to start with, are they?

On PS3 (for the few games that support it at least) I think it does, that's why it takes a toll on the performance. But for Xbox 360, probably not, they are most likely upscaled from 720p or something.

[Fudoh]

On PS3 (for the few games that support it at least) I think it does, that's why it takes a toll on the performance. But for Xbox 360, probably not, they are most likely upscaled from 720p or something.

regarding PS3: I thought these were internally rendered at 1080p and then output in 1080i (if you set the machine to 1080i) - one example would be Ridge Racer. You clearly get a higher resolution than at 720p, but there's no performance difference between 1080i and 1080p (I think).

[Lawfer]

regarding PS3: I thought these were internally rendered at 1080p and then output in 1080i (if you set the machine to 1080i) - one example would be Ridge Racer.

Oh? I am not a big fan of 1080i or anything so I haven't really looked into it that much, but I think some PS3 games simply do not output in 1080p even though they will output in 1080i, they might internally be rendered at 1080p like you said but the ability to have the game output in 1080p is not offered, I think one such example would be I think 2 of the PS3 God of War games (God of War III and God of War Ascension).

You clearly get a higher resolution than at 720p, but there's no performance difference between 1080i and 1080p (I think).

I was talking about the performance taking a toll when outputting a PS3 game in 1080i vs 720p.

[Fudoh]

Oh? I am not a big fan of 1080i or anything so I haven't really looked into it that much, but I think some PS3 games simply do not output in 1080p even though they will output in 1080i,

oh, right I remember that vaguely. There was something about the PS3 that games required to support the output resolution, while on the 360 the internal scaling was universal, so it could be used with any title.... Damn, it's been too long since I lased used a PS3.

[Ikaruga11]

https://ord.yahoo.co.jp/o/auction/RV=1/ ... QDanBjMDAx

I did a Google Translation to English and it apparently says that Sony BVM-F24U is broken or doesn't work properly. It also has nearly 20,000 hours of operational use as shown in the pictures. Regardless, it sold for ¥99,900 Yen, or approximately $907.32 USD back on December 20th, 2017.

On PS3 (for the few games that support it at least) I think it does, that's why it takes a toll on the performance. But for Xbox 360, probably not, they are most likely upscaled from 720p or something.

regarding PS3: I thought these were internally rendered at 1080p and then output in 1080i (if you set the machine to 1080i) - one example would be Ridge Racer. You clearly get a higher resolution than at 720p, but there's no performance difference between 1080i and 1080p (I think).

Most PS3 games output in 720p or even sub-720p resolutions. Very few PS3 games actually render above 720p, and even less in 1080p.

Despite the PS3, Wii U and even Xbox 360 having some native 1080p games, I consider all three of them 720p consoles just because native 720p is what makes up 98% of those games' libraries. The PS4, Nintendo Switch and Xbox One X on the other hand all have way more native 1080p games and can do rudimentary pseudo-4K at the expense of framerate, so I consider those consoles 1080p.

[BazookaBen]

No, you're actually right. I didn't think it through.

Thanks for correcting me!

ugh.....

Or am I approaching this wrong ??

I think so. Let me explain:

Edit: by the way, regarding 30fps games. Repeated frames will cause a double-image effect on CRTs/strobed displays, but not on sample-and-hold. Just a fun fact.

Basically this.

I don't think combing looks much worse than the general double-image effect that we see on progressive scan CRT's running 30fps@60hz. So you might as well go with 1080i so you're not missing out on 1/3rd of the horizontal detail

[Fudoh]

I guess the most important point of your statement was "try it yourself". That's what anybody should do

I personally think combing is terrible. It was what drove me away from interlaced CRTs and into getting my first linedoubler (and a 29" VGA screen) in the first place.

Repeated frames will cause a double-image effect on CRTs/strobed displays

is that so ? I honestly don't remember noticing this when playing the hundreds of 30fps fighting games back on the PS1...

[BazookaBen]

is that so ? I honestly don't remember noticing this when playing the hundreds of 30fps fighting games back on the PS1...

Have a progressive CRT nearby?

Just hook up a PC and look at this: https://testufo.com/

Actually, a 120hz LCD with black frame insertion would also give the same effect. I think there's a simulated black frame insertion demo somewhere on the website too.

[Xer Xian]

Yes, you should possibly avoid having repeated frames on CRTs, the effect is similar to having an LCD with strobing backlight that isn't in sync with the refresh rate (even if screen refresh matches frame rate - more here). It's due to this:

when your eyes are tracking an object that's moving across the screen and appears twice in the same position, to your moving eyes that will appear as not one but two equal objects next to each other, separated by the same distance the eyes have covered in between the two (equal) frames

I think back then we simply didn't know about it (I certainly didn't up to a few days ago) and ascribed it to lower motion resolution inherent to 30fps.

But as far as this topic is concerned, the point is that there's no escaping the 30fps@60hz double-image effect on CRTs. Interlace won't cure is since even if the lines are switched your eyes will interpret it as essentially the same image. So it's back to choosing between loss of resolution (720p) and combing artifacts (1080i) as Fudoh clarified.

[Udderdude]

Vast majority of games on the Wii U are 720p, so you might as well just stick with that.

[BazookaBen]

So it's back to choosing between loss of resolution (720p) and combing artifacts (1080i) as Fudoh clarified.

My point is that the "30fps double-image" is an artifact itself. It's visual noise. So the question should be: is a combed double image much worse than a solid double image? I don't really think it is, at least not by so much that it outweighs other factors.

So yeah, if you have the ability, check out that 30fps UFO on testUFO on both a progressive display and interlaced display (or just switch from progressive to interlaced on a CRT that supports both). You'll see either way, the 30fps UFO doesn't look great.

So for my recent real world example of this, I started off playing Xenoblade Cronicles (30fps game) in 480p on my PC CRT. Then I decided to try it on my 15kHz PVM, and saw that it looked better on the PVM thanks the PVM's higher brightness and more accurate color. The combing wasn't any more or less distracting than the general double image I was seeing at 480p