Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Sumez]

I think it's very unfortunate to compare The Messenger to Ninja Gaiden. But from what I am seeing, the game looks quite similar to a game like Castle in the Darkness, another slightly Meat Boy inspired "metroidvania" which also uses a crapton of pandering references to classic 8-bit and 16-bit titles, but also manages to be a really great game. At least I'm hoping it will be something along those lines.

Hell, RPG elements with "character progression" and unlockables and stuff worked amazingly well in Rogue Legacy. Sure, it's obviously not Ninja Gaiden, and although it's taking a lot from Castlevania, it's not that either. But it's very good at being what it is.

EDIT: Oh yeah, Mega Man 8 is good! As least I remember it as such. Very easy for a Mega Man game, but fun. MM7 and R&F are... not really fun.

[BIL]

lol at the mental gymnastics the author tries to pull off to justify the unwarranted title. Yeah, IGA made Castlevania a household name according to him. It's not like the series had a dozen entries across several platforms prior to SotN or anything.

It's not like IGA directed SOTN either. That would be Toru Hagihara - IGA was "assistant director," which I'm headcanoning to mean "coffee getter" ala The Super Shinobi's illustrious PAL-KO.

Explains a lot about the tailbone-shattering fall from grace the format experienced when IGA first took over for Harmony of Dissonance. And yo I like HOD, but it's ravaged by inept direction compared to SOTN's sparkly toybox and COTM's murdery killbox.

I think he recovered pretty well with the next-year followup Aria of Sorrow, but then IGAvanias became yearly iterations with precious little of the traditional series' distinctiveness. It's also around the same time he botched the series' return to console - releasing Lament of Innocence with AAA fighting mechanics, and bargain bin stage design by a brain-damaged chimpanzee armed with a Wolfenstein 3D map editor. Shoulda slagged off KCEK's games less, and nuzzled Hideki Kamiya's hindquarters less too, while he was at it.

If anything he just about steered the series into a relatively painless demise as any hope of a console return vanished over his next two attempts.

Hey, it's circlejerk time!

I was about to say, let's not turn the next few pages into "track dogshit into the house" -fest. It's out there, we all know about it, please use the GamerGate thread to unleash your innate hardcore gamer bloodlust. It's what I do!

Going "Wahhh! CV demands a modicum of tactical awareness and won't let me takesy-backsy my cretinous panic hops! Nintendo Hard!" is another thing entirely, ofc.

Blaming perfectly serviceable mechanics for their own lack of attention? No, I don't think they're particularly different at all.

I must disagree. Surely there's a difference between acknowledging past stuff was great but could be further refined, and dismissing it as broken garbage that should be ripped out at the roots? Even the older games themselves tended to tinker with stuff like CV's jump arc, sometimes pretty successfully imo in Vampire Killer (possible to turn and hit something behind you, but your landing spot remains set in stone - Makaimura basically) and Rondo (you can do the same, or you can hold down the jump button for one chance to reverse trajectory / nudge out of a neutral jump, and only in the jump's early phase at that).

I know I'm setting the bar for insightful criticism pretty low here, but there are fucking mongoloids like Dean Takahashi running around the place - can't be too choosy, sadly.

[Arasoi]

.

[Sumez]

It's my impression IGA is alright. He's been famous throughout the years for having some pretty dumb ideas and opinions, not just on game design, but the whole thing on gender roles, etc. But he's a creator and a guy who sets things in motion, and I respect him for what he's done. He's been very passionate about Castlevania, and he's taken it to some good times as well as the bad ones. His impact on Bloodstained can definitely have a positive effect, but we'll just wait and see how things turn out. Whether it's gonna be good or bad, most of that probably won't be his doing, but at least he's making it happen.

[BIL]

Oh yeah, there were decent-at-least games in the iterative years. I love Ecclesia, truly. I won't go "that's because Nakazato, fuck you IGA!" but the former's presence seems to have helped... rather like it did SOTN, actually! As did fellow Contra luminary Shigeharu Umezaki's directing of COTM.

Only gave the former two DS titles cursory first runs, missing tons of stuff, but I know Squire rates DOS highly so I've looked forward to revisiting.

I like Nano Breaker. Just like every other console thing he did it's very flawed, but some of those framerate-plunging axe slaughters were a blast. The harpoon mechanic and its followup instakill were neat too.

This whole tangent sprang out of the man being called "the father of Castlevania" and the harbinger of its supposed heyday - apologies if it seems overly venomous. His handling of X68000's PS1 port certainly was admirable - the best thing he did imo, at least on par with Ecclesia.

[Arasoi]

.

[BIL]

Dracula X68k vs its PS1 port came up recently - the consensus seems to be that the latter is very much a total rebuild. Gets the broad strokes right but there's tons of differences that veterans will pick up on. I'm happy enough with it either way, but the most I've done with either version is a 2-ALL... wouldn't be surprised if things go a bit awry in higher loops. Just glad it exists tbh, I lack the minerals for PC/arcade stuff.

Love how you included the relevant Parodiuses there. I like to fire up Dracula-kun and pretend I'm playing Ueda-san's never-to-be Axelay II.

Normally I don't ask/care (find it all a bit morbid with the market these days), and I know you said "used to," but out of curiosity - do you still have that sealed SNES Dracula X? Must be going for a friggin bomb now... even the SFC version's no joke nowadays.

Sometimes I get very, veeery slightly tempted to offload my MD Vampire Killer but, well, you ever try hitting Grey Fox with a stinger in MGS1's Rex fight? That's pretty much the sound of my internal monologue.

Spoiler

CAN'T DO IT! RRRAAAAGH!!!

[Arasoi]

.

[BIL]

XX is quite the damage case - these days what bugs me the most is the half-baked attempt at nonlinearity. IIRC you can get whatever slate of stages+bosses you want in a Rondo run, provided you know where the route changes are... XX has a handful of classic stages and bosses, but it forces you to choose between them. I'd like to play st5 (bad end) and still get good end's wickedly intense duel with Death. At least Clock Tower is guaranteed, big fan of that stage.

Indeed re: VK, and its jet black on blood red spine also complements that of MD Hard Corps', so I'd no doubt have to ditch that too.

For a while I pondered just sticking with my battered yet dependable ol' rental place firesale NTSCU carts, especially as both have a modicum of extra difficulty... but under close scrutiny, it's nowhere enough to compel. Bloodlines' slightly tougher Expert mode basically lets you take less hits - I aim to not get hit at all, particularly with its Super Shinobi-styled POW mode. Meanwhile Hard Corps is 100% identical apart from JP's hitpoints. Again I'd long been "no miss or bust" (grew up with the Genesis version), so I don't even notice the difference there... and it's also much easier to play with buddies, since they won't be running out of lives every thirty seconds.

THC's character-specific + duo-specific scripts are a nice touch too - I can't read 'em without a guide, but it just feels more complete compared to the US's rushed "one script for all" job.

[Jonny2x4]

I suspect you're playing right into his hands by linking that video here, because he can't possibly have overlooked such a fundamental mechanic by accident. It isn't uncommon for YouTubers to miss stuff like this on purpose to stir up negative attention and get people making corrections in the comments section.

Just your usual fishing for views, nothing more.

Guru Larry (the British guy who always puts a cartoon mug of himself on all his videos) once admitted that he purposely fills his Fact Hunt videos with the occasional lie or misconception in order to call out plagiarists (which happened once with Watch Mojo). I was once going to correct a mistake on one of his videos and then I remembered that incident.

Dracula X68k vs its PS1 port came up recently - the consensus seems to be that the latter is very much a total rebuild. Gets the broad strokes right but there's tons of differences that veterans will pick up on. I'm happy enough with it either way, but the most I've done with either version is a 2-ALL... wouldn't be surprised if things go a bit awry in higher loops. Just glad it exists tbh, I lack the minerals for PC/arcade stuff.

The 2D Metal Gears in Subsistence and HD Edition of MGS3 were like that too. People online mistakenly assume that they're straight emulations of the MSX2 versions, but they're just elaborate ports. The character portraits in MG2 are a dead giveaway, but there's less obvious differences too like health-depleting cigarettes, changed boss patterns and how ration/ammo drops in MG1 are possible during alert mode when they weren't in the original.

[BIL]

Dracula X68k vs its PS1 port came up recently - the consensus seems to be that the latter is very much a total rebuild. Gets the broad strokes right but there's tons of differences that veterans will pick up on. I'm happy enough with it either way, but the most I've done with either version is a 2-ALL... wouldn't be surprised if things go a bit awry in higher loops. Just glad it exists tbh, I lack the minerals for PC/arcade stuff.

The 2D Metal Gears in Subsistence and HD Edition of MGS3 were like that too. People online mistakenly assume that they're straight emulations of the MSX2 versions, but they're just elaborate ports. The character portraits in MG2 are a dead giveaway, but there's less obvious differences too like health-depleting cigarettes, changed boss patterns and how ration/ammo drops in MG1 are possible during alert mode when they weren't in the original.

Aha, good to know - I've yet to try either out, but at a glance I'd have assumed they were emulated / modified ROMs, too.

I don't know a whole lot about MSX/MSX2 stuff tbh, outside of a handful of FC-related favourites like Akumajou Dracula and Dragon Slayer IV/Legacy of the Wizard. I'd like to get into the format at some point, even if only through emulation, given the sheer amount of Konami material on there. I like that they tended to use ROM cartridges - I nope out pretty quick where magnetic media is involved.

[Jonny2x4]

i recommend playing the MSX2 version of Metal Gear 2 over the Subsistence version any day. The game just isn't the same without the celebrity-ripoff portraits. It adds to the Hollywood-wannabe feel of the game, much like how the boxart from the first game was traced over from a Michael Biehn publicity still. Not to mention the Shinkawa-style portraits in the newer versions aren't even animated - they're just completely static. Some fanboys might argue that the Shinkawa portraits are "more consistent" with later games in the series, but after MGSV I doubt Kojima gives that much of a crap for consistency in his games.

There's only two floppy disk games by Konami on the MSX that I'm aware of that aren't compilations: Snatcher and SD Snatcher. Not sure how familiar you are with the other versions of the game, but the original 8-bit version of Snatcher (also on NEC PC-8801) is essentially the same as the later CD versions, but it's text-only and the final act is missing (which some purists see as a plus). SD Snatcher on the other hand, is a completely different game - basically an RPG that serves as a heavily modified retelling of the same events.

[BIL]

Only casually aware of Snatcher via Konami fan osmosis, really - hard to avoid "One Night In Neo Tokyo" while mooching around various Konami Kukeiha Club anthologies - but I absolutely love the various OSTs, particularly that one based on the PC88 script and loaded with gloriously hammy English-language VAs. "Snatcher! I'm gonna end this doubt...the real fight starts here!" ;-;7

Also the MSX2 SCC+ "Theme of Ending" / We Have To Struggle For Our Future Against Our DOUBT is a syber punk adventure in itself. (so many great tracknames! BEYOND SORROWS, MASTER OF PUPPETS AMONG THE DISEASE, DANGER DANCE & JUSTICE ALL...)

Never been very compelled to play the game itself really - but I'm glad to hear some prefer the original's harsh, abrupt yet stoical ending. Gillian's VA in that audio drama version as he sets out to bring down the conspiracy moves me, man!

[__SKYe]

Snatcher is cool (I've cleared the Sega CD port) provided you enjoy text/point-n-click adventure games. The action segments are somewhat weird, in that they are there just to provide some action to the game (along with some padding, I suppose) and although they aren't too bad, some of the later ones may take a couple of tries to beat. I guess playing with the lightgun would make these segments cooler, though.
The game is also pretty short as it is, even with the final act, and the ending is indeed so-so.

The coolest thing about Snatcher, for me, are the little details that they pu in (the bar full of characters from other Konami games, the phone-sex line you can call (among others), you can input Konami's personnel names into the computer for info, etc). Pretty neat stuff.

Interestingly enough, Trace Memory for the DS has a somewhat similar premise (ie. two scientists working on secret project, male scientist has the hots for the girl, another male scientist joins the party, girl falls for/marries new guy, other one eventually becomes bad guy) despite fundamentaly different gameplay (unlike Snatcher/Policenauts which are essentialy text/point-n-clicks, this one veers more to the puzzle collection type, though not nearly as much as Professor Layton). Probably just a coincidence though, but having cleared Snatcher just a few months before it, I couldn't help but compare them in that regard.

[soprano1]

http://www.siliconera.com/2018/01/22/so ... uare-enix/
Great, maybe they will let them do an infinite runner game featuring Cloud for mobile, since Final Fantasy XIV already has fishing.

[Sumez]

Not trying too hard to troll here, but did Yuji Naka really ever do anything great?

I mean, except from Shadow the Hedgehog and Samba De Amigo of course.

[Stevens]

Not a Phantasy Star fan? At the very least he can hang his hat on that.

[Squire Grooktook]

Explains a lot about the tailbone-shattering fall from grace the format experienced when IGA first took over for Harmony of Dissonance. And yo I like HOD, but it's ravaged by inept direction compared to SOTN's sparkly toybox and COTM's murdery killbox.

Last week I spent a little extra time trying to actually learn the Maxim fight in HOD, and I was pretty disappointed to realize that the one challenging fight in the game is...pretty terribly designed.

Both of Maxim's melee attacks are unreactable, and his second one (the ora ora bullshit that moves him forward) decisively outranges your whip, so you can't even kite him. You pretty much have to either zone him 100% with magic, or play a drawn out game of attrition and punishes, sneaking attacks in during his recovery windows. Neither are fun, limited as they are.

Also his ultimate attack, the clone storm shit, is inconsistent. He can randomly* choose to do it at any location in the arena, and if he does it in the middle, then you'll have no choice** but to try and smack down the clones by flailing Juste's limp whip...problem is this is terribly inconsistent and you'll randomly get smacked during it. You pretty much have no choice but to i-frame through it with one of the lengthier spells if you want to consistently avoid damage. An expendable resource (which, depending on your exploration and sub weapon, you may not even have) being the only way to avoid potential damage...definitely rubs me the wrong way***.

The game is charming but...pretty incompetent in some ways. The low amount of invuln time vs stun time on attacks is also really egregious. The hardest hitting attacks in the game are the ones that knock you into others, etc. recalling XX's bullshit. Even the programming is pretty bad: Simply playing through the game casually, several times I accidentally fell into the backwards dive kicks which drive the wrongwarps in speedruns.


*I haven't extensively tested if it's truly random, mind you. Just feels that way since I see something different each time with the same basic actions. It's possible there's some ai loop you can trick him into (Ala Richter Memory in PoR), but I didn't notice any leads and that wouldn't exactly be a good fix to the fight anyway.

**You can also try to stun him out of the charge sequence by smacking him down, but whether he gets stunned or not by the whip is random, as far as I can tell.

***It would be like if Cave made a TLB that couldn't be realistically beaten without a bom-nevermind.

[Jonny2x4]

Never been very compelled to play the game itself really - but I'm glad to hear some prefer the original's harsh, abrupt yet stoical ending. Gillian's VA in that audio drama version as he sets out to bring down the conspiracy moves me, man!

Yeah, there are many people who are not fans of Snatcher Act 3 (Hideki Kamiya being one of them, going as far as calling it one of the seven pointless wonders of the world). It takes all the loose ends from the first two acts and solves them with the most obvious plot contrivances ever (much like how MGS4 took away all the mystery from MGS2 surrounding the Patriots and revealed them to be Big Boss's wacky support crew fromn MGS3).

There are no real puzzles to solve (everything is given to you on a silver platter) and the confrontation with the true antagonist is a half-hour infodump that sets a precedent for Kojima's verbose storytelling. The Sega CD localization tries to alleviate it somewhat by giving you a quiz at the beginning of the Act and adding a couple of shooting segments before the end (which are also in the later 32-bit console versions), but it's still fundamentally the same. Incidentally, the PCE Snatcher, which is the first version that added Act 3 and voice acting, had none of the original staff except for Hideo himself and character designer Tomiharu Kinoshita. The original planner and co-writer Naoki Matsui was MIA in this later version, whom I have no doubt contributed to the music references in Snatcher after looking at the heavy metal-themed enemy character names he came up with for the MSX Gradius games (play some スキナード, man!). Take that as you will.

Incidentally, the final act is also in SD Snatcher, but it plays out very differently. There's actually a sense of urgency in the finale (since your character is trying to stop the Snatchers from launching a nuclear weapon IIRC) and there's a more conventional final battle .

Snatcher is cool (I've cleared the Sega CD port) provided you enjoy text/point-n-click adventure games. The action segments are somewhat weird, in that they are there just to provide some action to the game (along with some padding, I suppose) and although they aren't too bad, some of the later ones may take a couple of tries to beat. I guess playing with the lightgun would make these segments cooler, though.
The game is also pretty short as it is, even with the final act, and the ending is indeed so-so.

The coolest thing about Snatcher, for me, are the little details that they pu in (the bar full of characters from other Konami games, the phone-sex line you can call (among others), you can input Konami's personnel names into the computer for info, etc). Pretty neat stuff.

The original 8-bit versions, as well as the PCE version, had sci-fi/toku characters instead. I remember one of the guys is a Kamen Rider Black parody who crusades against minority dissemination in Japan.

Not trying too hard to troll here, but did Yuji Naka really ever do anything great?

I mean, except from Shadow the Hedgehog and Samba De Amigo of course.

Not a Phantasy Star fan? At the very least he can hang his hat on that.

I always liked Hokuto no Ken on the Mark III as one of the few decent games based on the manga. It's easy to just dismiss it as a Spartan X clone, but it's a pretty damn good one at that and with a property like Hokuto no Ken, which has more bad tie-in games than good (the Famicom equivalent is the most ghastly thing I've ever played), it's good enough for me. Girl's Garden is pretty fun, even though it's supposedly one of the most sexist 8-bit games ever made if a certain website is led to be believed.

Naka was also in charge of Daimakaimura's MD port if I'm not mistaken.

[BIL]

The game is charming but...pretty incompetent in some ways. The low amount of invuln time vs stun time on attacks is also really egregious. The hardest hitting attacks in the game are the ones that knock you into others, etc. recalling XX's bullshit. Even the programming is pretty bad: Simply playing through the game casually, several times I accidentally fell into the backwards dive kicks which drive the wrongwarps in speedruns.

Ultimately HOD boils down to a handful of things for me:

1] I like that the map progression requires a bit more lateral thought, compared to its PS1/GBA peers. (but there's tons of blotchy useless space, and blatantly padded-out corridors/shafts... the former mostly avoidable on revisits, admittedly)

2] iframes on spell summon - feels great getting right the fuck up in a big enemy's face and ghosting through their attack as a murderous slab of ice or a blistering gout of flame tears into them. (just beware the boneheaded air whip handling)

3] some superbly detailed BG art, and fleeting moments of uncanny beauty / horror

Spoiler

(but good god damn, Luminous Cave's witch sprites are the artistic nadir of the entire series, and Juste's moving frames will obliterate any goodwill towards his respectable standing ones)

I wish HOD and AOS had been one game instead. I genuinely like the latter, and it's undoubtedly the sounder work, but it feels a bit safe on both design and aesthetics. HOD is so goddamn unsafe it ends up veering off a bridge, and demands a committed salvager... but the fleeting better points do keep me coming back. I think we discussed this before but I even kinda like those Dario Argento-esque screaming colours, haha. Canary yellow has never looked so bludgeoning.

Yeah, there are many people who are not fans of Snatcher Act 3 (Hideki Kamiya being one of them, going as far as calling it one of the seven pointless wonders of the world). It takes all the loose ends from the first two acts and solves them with the most obvious plot contrivances ever (much like how MGS4 took away all the mystery from MGS2 surrounding the Patriots and revealed them to be Big Boss's wacky support crew fromn MGS3).

Ah, I was trying to remember this exact development earlier. I was already disliking MGS4's "Kojima Explains It All" approach, but this was the point where I went "oh fuck off Hideo," never to take MGS canon seriously ever again. I'd quite enjoyed following the first three games.

The original planner and co-writer Naoki Matsui was MIA in this later version, whom I have no doubt contributed to the music references in Snatcher after looking at the heavy metal-themed enemy character names he came up with for the MSX Gradius games (play some スキナード, man!).

Oh my god, that may surpass even Holy Diver. I had no idea Gradius 2 was metal as fuck, in addition to having a killer OST in its own right!



Sheeeit

Technically that gives Gradius V a bit of \m/etal cred too, with its final boss declaring itself "just a small part of VENOM"

I always liked Hokuto no Ken on the Mark III as one of the few decent games based on the manga. It's easy to just dismiss it as a Spartan X clone, but it's a pretty damn good one at that and with a property like Hokuto no Ken, which has more bad tie-in games than good (the Famicom equivalent is the most ghastly thing I've ever played), it's good enough for me.

I was wondering how the FC and Mark III ones compared. I tried really hard to like the former (the box is shaweet!), but the rambling mazes killed off the already marginal combat. If anything, I was reduced to enjoying the pseudo-gory pixelsplosions. Sometime I have to sit down and do a proper Mark III tryout session.

Naka was also in charge of Daimakaimura's MD port if I'm not mistaken.

I heard the same, that's definitely one for the history books if so. Remorselessly hardcore port that'll make your MD whoop asses off the machine like it's getting paid.

[Stevens]

I was wondering how the FC and Mark III ones compared. I tried really hard to like the former (the box is shaweet!), but the rambling mazes killed off the already marginal combat. If anything, I reduced to enjoying the pseudo-gory pixelsplosions. Sometime I have to sit down and do a proper Mark III tryout session.

I always liked Hokuto no Ken on the Mark III

The American re skin, Black Belt, was my first favorite game and the first game I ever 1 CC'd. Boss rush included:D

Definitely worth the time.

[Ruldra]

I always liked Hokuto no Ken on the Mark III

The American re skin, Black Belt, was my first favorite game and the first game I ever 1 CC'd. Boss rush included:D

Definitely worth the time.

Whoever 1cc'd these games, how long it took you to beat Oni / Toki? I swear it took me years to figure out that fight. Dude is invincible unless you follow a very specific pattern.

[Stevens]

Haha. Fucking Oni.

Since BIL is thinking about playing it I'll put spoiler tags since he should also go through the same hell we did as kids.

In retrospect he was definitely the boss that took the longest to figure out. Maybe after a week of constant beatings at his hands

Spoiler

I accidentally discovered that if you jump kick you can let him hit you and then hit him.

It was an epiphany. I had three games, I played hours a day as a kid, and I played BB the most.

After that I discovered

Spoiler

you can crouch his counter and punch his stupid face in for free.

Rita took a fair bit of experimentation too, but as much as Oni.

[Jonny2x4]

Ah, I was trying to remember this exact development earlier. I was already disliking MGS4's "Kojima Explains It All" approach, but this was the point where I went "oh fuck off Hideo," never to take MGS canon seriously ever again. I'd quite enjoyed following the first three games.

I've seen a minority of fanboys defend that plot twist in MGS4 by pointing that Major Zero used the passwords "Who are the Patriots?" and "La-li-lu-le-lo" early on in Operation Snake Eater, but that still comes off more as a nod to MGS2 than a legitimate foreshadowing of his later role as an Illuminati mastermind. If it was meant to be foreshadow MGS4, it was done poorly. For all we know, Zero was told to use those passwords from the CIA director, who was the one who actually employed Ocelot as a triple agent.

Incidentally, MGS4 was the first mainline MGS game without co-writer Tomokazu Fukushima's input (he was credited in the initial trailer, but is not mentioned in the finalized game) and some argue that the series's storytelling took a nosedive after his departure.

Oh my god, that may surpass even Holy Diver. I had no idea Gradius 2 was metal as fuck, in addition to having a killer OST in its own right!

Matsui also directed the first TMNT game for the Game Boy (which was brought up earlier in this thread), as well as the first GB Nemesis (in fact, a lot of Konami's early GB titles were developed by their former MSX personnel, likely due to the MSX and GB having the same CPU). After that though, he disappeared completely from the industry.

On the topic of enemy character names, nothing will top Golden Axe for me with its alcoholic-themed enemy names like the Bud Brothers (Light and Wiser) and General Heineken.

I was wondering how the FC and Mark III ones compared. I tried really hard to like the former (the box is shaweet!), but the rambling mazes killed off the already marginal combat. If anything, I was reduced to enjoying the pseudo-gory pixelsplosions. Sometime I have to sit down and do a proper Mark III tryout session.

I find the FC Hokuto no Ken borderline unplayable without a guide. Supposedly upgrading Kenshiro's power level to the highest level (seven stars) will guarantee that Lin will always show up to the right path, which is pretty easy to do on the very first area of the game if you grind for red enemies, but for some reason it doesn't work that way on the final stage - I followed Lin's path and ended up running in circles. Even on the very first area, if you miss out the first exit, neither Lin nor Bat will show up again, so you have to second-guess which paths are accessible until you trigger the animation of Ken walking into the background. Seriously, who thought pressing Up+A+B to progress was good game design?

There's actually some spectacular finishing moves you can perform on each the first four bosses by attacking them in a certain matter, which is a nice attempt by the developers to adapt the gory finishing moves of the manga (the screen even turns black and displays the kanji of your move), but they're far more trouble to perform than they're worth, especially given how all the characters look like bits of blobs merged together.

FC Hokuto no Ken 2 is a considerable improvement over the original, but it's still rather mediocre. It was actually localized as Fist of the North Star on the NES and had some difficulty tweaks for the U.S. version, but there's a glitch in the U.S. version that turns the "bad ending" (if you used a continue prior to defeating Falco) unviewable. Instead of the usual credits, you'll get a glitched screen with an annoying noise. If you use a continue on the true final boss (the Nameless Shura), it takes you to glitched versions of the boss rush stages instead.

The American re skin, Black Belt, was my first favorite game and the first game I ever 1 CC'd. Boss rush included:D

Definitely worth the time.

Black Belt has some difficulty tweaks over Mark III Hokuto too. Most notably, health recovery items are more frequent in Black Belt and Devil's Rebirth (the third boss) is replaced by a sumo wrestler. However, Black Belt lacks a cheat in Mark III Hokuto which allowed you to skip an entire stage if you defeat the previous boss without taking damage.

[FinalBaton]

DEVILUH REBIRTH!

That guy is one of my fave villains of the Shin arc
(ok I'll stop, I could talk about Hokotu no Ken all day, lol)

[BrianC]

I'm guessing Matsui is also responsible for the names "Iggy Rock" and "Zowie Scott" in the MSX Salamander?

[Jonny2x4]

I'm guessing Matsui is also responsible for the names "Iggy Rock" and "Zowie Scott" in the MSX Salamander?

I would guess so. Incidentally the MSX Salamander was the first game to use the name "Metal Slave", which would become the name of Matsui's team for the 8-bit Snatcher. There's only two photos of Matsui-san online. One from the promotional flyer of Snatcher and the other one from some Konami newsletter (DS-3).
https://www.beep-shop.com/blog/5634/
http://seesaawiki.jp/w/kei_kof/d/%BE%BE ... 4%BE%BC%F9

The character art on the OST's foldout poster (which I would imagined are reused manual art) has a very Gillian Seed-looking rendition of Iggy Rock. I wonder if Tomiharu Kinoshita did the art for that.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6TSeiQB-TTQ/T ... CF3161.JPG

DEVILUH REBIRTH!

That guy is one of my fave villains of the Shin arc
(ok I'll stop, I could talk about Hokotu no Ken all day, lol)

But Devil Rebirth was post-Shin, wasn't it?
I wish there were more good Hokuto no Ken games to discuss. The 3D beat-'em-up on PS1 and the ASW fighting game are outside this thread's scope and while Hokuto no Ken II on the MD (aka Last Battle) is generally regarded as crappy, I kinda like it in a guilty pleasure kind of way.

Hokuto no Ken is still relevant here in a roundabout way, given how much it influenced many Japanese games. There's even a website that chronicles Hokuto references in gaming.

[FinalBaton]

But Devil Rebirth was post-Shin, wasn't it?

Nope

It's episode 16 or close to that, and the Shin arc ends on episode 26

Yeah, Hokotu no Ken had such a massive influence on games. It's basically part of action reto game mythos at this point.
Loved the Double Dragon famicom art posted awhile ago that was clearly a Hokotu no Ken hommage

[hien]

I completely forgot Bloodstained was even a thing. Last I heard they fired developer Inti Creates (of Mega Man Zero/ZX and Azure Striker fame) for some reason, despite the Kickstarter prominently advertising their involvement.

Wait, whaaat?? o_O
Their involvement was pretty much the only reason I was interested in the title, since they at least guarantee a solid base for the game mechanics. wth…

[Sumez]

I'm perfectly fine with Inti Creates being out of it. In fact, I prefer it that way, and never heard of their involvement in the first place.
Judging by the demo, the game controls exactly like SOTN, so I wouldn't worry about the basic game mechanics at this point.