Recommended Anime/Manga?

[soprano1]

Glorious year indeed, KAI.

[Xyga]

Ryuuou no Oshigoto!, 2 episodes in.

One of the most ridiculous anime I've ever seen.

Your totally normal handsome teenage boi happens to be a shogi champion pro of sorts, and an incredible loli magnet - of course.

Surely Saki was too realistic and the girlies too old for today's otaku audience, so some creative mangaka simply shift up a gear and it got insta-animated.

I'm waiting for the next one in the same vein, either 14 years old handosme knitting master genius and his troup of kindergarten loli groupies, or a garbage collecting mogul sourrounded by loli-fied critters.

You know it will happen. No, even worse will, but unless you're a 30something Japanese hiki you can't picture what yet.

[BryanM]

The video game isekei waifu shit will be the current fad. You've only seen the tip of the iceberg with Smartphone and Re:Zero. There's always more and it's always [s]better[/s] worse.

I gave Knight's & Magic and an actual try (I had forgotten it had received a dub) and was somewhat surprised the waifu elements were 5% or less of total content. However, the "wiener kid from another world overturning centuries of science and engineering because he's just so special" stuff was cranked to the max. Which I think is even worse frankly - invalidating the value of an entire world of characters is worse than some guy's collection of mentally ill pokemon.

The base of everything should be reality, and I think things have gotten too far away from that on average. An abstraction of an abstraction of an abstraction:

Why is the town in Diablo 3 called New Tristram? Because it's a video game and they wanted to appeal to their customer's sense of nostalgia. Why would the people in this world want to name and live in a town named after a cursed, damned place where everyone died horribly (if they were lucky)? Unless they were insane death cultist devil worshippers, they wouldn't.

[null1024]

Still reading Steel Ball Run. Extremely good.
but it's been slow going for me because I'm too lazy to watch or read anything lately, bleh

14 years old handosme knitting master genius and his troup of kindergarten loli groupies

This is maddeningly plausible.

[KAI]

Violet Everwaifu, Evangurenkillfurieureka and the new gintama, sakura and basilik are my picks this season.

Franxx was so full of cliches I've seen a millon time in other sci-fi/mecha series, but it's hard to drop something with that animation quality and the not-anemone horned waifu.
:B

Koi wa and Hakumei to Mikochi look good, but the manga are still superior imo (same case with sangatsu). Read those mangos pls.

[Xyga]

The video game isekei waifu shit will be the current fad. You've only seen the tip of the iceberg with Smartphone and Re:Zero. There's always more and it's always [s]better[/s] worse.

the isekai shit's a natural evolution replacing both shounen and seinen, it can be about anything, flexible enough to absorb many genres and scenarii

I mean in those it's men in their 30~40's who have a shit life in our world and feel miserable, and thanks to a truck or whatever wake up transformed into everything they weren't: young handsome attractive strong talented, with money/job and surrounded by immature easy pet-like females, actually living meaningful, fulfilling things etc

in short everything that's more and more out of reach to men in real life
the japanese make vg/mango/animu of it, it's business out of misery-frustration, elsewhere we turn to religious and political fanatism, so the jp way is not so bad
they just have difficulty exploiting the vein to the last particle so they invent beyon weird shit, like ending up doing a a real life normal job in a fantasy world. ugh.

not all stuff's isekai shit yet but it doesn't have to be after all it's just another way to start a fantasy like 'once upon a time' or 'in a far away galaxy'
the vividly apparent men's social issues and how they're treated in those absurd vg/mango/animu are the real flesh of isekai and whatever pedo shit, no need for a truck or a fantasy rpg world if you're going to depict the unspeakable fantasies of failed males

[Randorama]

Quick point re: Isekai.

This idea is not very new, and it probably originates in sword and sorcery pulp fiction, if not earlier: Almuric by Robert Howard (yes, the Conan guy who wished to be a Cimmerian) is an early example that comes off the top of my mind, but John Carter's books should feature the same idea at least 40 years before. Michael Moorcock's books on the Eternal Champion often used this idea, in the late '50s to '70s. There is a short discussion in Michael Wolff's book on world building (which should be entitled World Building, aptly enough).

The isekai narrative gimmick allows authors to just set up a fantasy world to their fancy, while at the same time allowing the readers to release their frustrations into power fantasies. Almuric was a perfect example, but I will not mention any spoilers. Moorcock's books were certainly more refined in their use(s) of the idea (e.g. Ecce Homo/Behold the man, which features time travel too...and an interesting take on the life and times of JC).

Modern anime/manga (...Japanese?) trends seem to revolve around discovering western trends at least 30 years late, so the proliferation of isekais is not too surprising.

I would write a brief rambling on the the "Watchmen effect" (i.e. create a dark, post-modern re-interpretation of old cheesy material) and discuss Osomatsu-san and Puella etc. etc. , but I think that it will be for another time.

Devilman: Crybaby didn't have to do that: the original was dark enough. Nevertheless, Yuasa told again the story in an interesting way (and, luckily, close(r) to the original). For me, this version actually improved on the original manga, which was simply created too hastily (production times, etc.). I am liking what Netflix is supporting/producing, so far.

[Randorama]

Quick point re: Isekai.

This idea is not very new, and it probably originates in sword and sorcery pulp fiction, if not earlier: Almuric by Robert Howard (yes, the Conan guy who wished to be a Cimmerian) is an early example that comes off the top of my mind, but John Carter's books should feature the same idea at least 40 years before. Michael Moorcock's books on the Eternal Champion often used this idea, in the late '50s to '70s. There is a short discussion in Michael Wolff's book on world building (which should be entitled World Building, aptly enough).

The isekai narrative gimmick allows authors to just set up a fantasy world to their fancy, while at the same time allowing the readers to release their frustrations into power fantasies. Almuric was a perfect example, but I will not mention any spoilers. Moorcock's books were certainly more refined in their use(s) of the idea (e.g. Ecce Homo/Behold the man, which features time travel too...and an interesting take on the life and times of JC).

Modern anime/manga (...Japanese?) trends seem to revolve around discovering western trends at least 30 years late, so the proliferation of isekais is not too surprising.

I would write a brief rambling on the the "Watchmen effect" (i.e. create a dark, post-modern re-interpretation of old cheesy material) and discuss Osomatsu-san and Puella etc. etc. , but I think that it will be for another time.

Devilman: Crybaby didn't have to do that: the original was dark enough. Nevertheless, Yuasa told again the story in an interesting way (and, luckily, close(r) to the original). For me, this version actually improved on the original manga, which was simply created too hastily (production times, etc.). I am liking what Netflix is supporting/producing, so far.

EDIT: my wife cried during the first episode of Sakura (she grew up with it, and absolutely adores it). Are we getting *too* old?

[drauch]

So this is a new Anime/manga fad? Interesting. I don't keep up with much new stuff.

I mean, if anything Burroughs would deserve the credit for all those imitators. John Carter just straight up gets transferred to Barsoom and strong arms his way to success and bags Dejah Thoris and all that, and that was written in 1912. He did it more, and then that spawned more imitators.

But even then, look at all the lost world stuff before then in the late 1800's. It's almost the same situation in some ways, but instead of being transported they're "discovering".

There's plenty of anime and manga like this 30 so years ago, so I don't think this is copying any sort of Western trend since it's been a pretty common plot device for a loooong time now.

Something does well and spawns imitators, fads come and go. Seems like this trend is as simple as that, I'd say.

[soprano1]

I would write a brief rambling on the the "Watchmen effect" (i.e. create a dark, post-modern re-interpretation of old cheesy material) and discuss Osomatsu-san and Puella etc. etc. , but I think that it will be for another time.

Osomatsu-san is a bit more parody than dark, but yeah. I think Utena did it for the magical girl genre years before Madoka, although it did create a trend for even darker stuff in the past three or four years.
Some attempts fail miserably, though, like the horrible Kamen Rider 2005 movie, and it's horror sequel that made no sense. Last year's Power Rangers movie wasn't too bad, although the CG was shit. That's one thing it shares with the 1995 movie lol.

[FinalBaton]

Man, there are so many manga/anime genres, I'm completely lost

I know about shonen and shojo and seinen and that's about it

[drauch]

You're best not knowing.

[WelshMegalodon]

It's been said elsewhere, but while Utena may possess elements of mahou shoujo, it doesn't really feel like an example of the genre proper. It's more just a really weird and experimental take on shoujo in general, leaving Madoka to take the title of grimdark magical girl (although it's much less ambitious in actually questioning the conventions of the genre than Princess Tutu).

Also, the Watchman effect is hardly a new trend.

Man, there are so many manga/anime genres, I'm completely lost

I know about shonen and shojo and seinen and that's about it

Those three and josei are demographics, not genres, although you obviously see certain genres in a given demographic more than others.

[soprano1]

Man, there are so many manga/anime genres, I'm completely lost

I know about shonen and shojo and seinen and that's about it

It's like books, there's something for everyone.

[FinalBaton]

It's like books, there's something for everyone.

I'm really not well-versed in anime and manga, the more I think about it. lol. I like to think that I know a lot about them, but then I realise that I really don't. You guys know way more about that stuff. I'm a n00b. lol

[soprano1]

It's been said elsewhere, but while Utena may possess elements of mahou shoujo, it doesn't really feel like an example of the genre proper. It's more just a really weird and experimental take on shoujo in general, leaving Madoka to take the title of grimdark magical girl (although it's much less ambitious in actually questioning the conventions of the genre than Princess Tutu).

Holy shit, Princess Tutu!
Obligatory post (spoilers!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHZqxecCukg

[drauch]

If you want some dark shoujo, read the latest volume of Sukeban Deka released by Happyscans. Some dreary stuff, mannn. Plus yours truly does the type-setting

[kitten]

It's been said elsewhere, but while Utena may possess elements of mahou shoujo, it doesn't really feel like an example of the genre proper.

it's a genre deconstruction. ikuhara (he had a lot of time working on sailor moon, before this) was setting out to take apart a lot of harmful/toxic tropes within the genre while simultaneously using his love for it to completely and sincerely invest in it (let's also not discount the rest of the staff for reining him in and keeping the entire series from being as out there as adolescence of utena). it's a long burn, but i feel like utena is one of the most poignant criticisms of the capacity for abuse inherent in those kinds of fairytale settings that there is. utena goes into a great deal of depth on how absolutely dangerous it is that a lot of material in the genre outright romanticizes abusive relationships, and it's one of the only anime out there that handles radioactive material like incest and rape with the care necessary to show the depths of how vile it is.

Spoiler

iirc, he took a fair amount of issue with mamoru's age gap with usagi in sailor moon (he left the show due to creative differences, too, iirc), and i really feel like akio is a tad inspired by characters like that. i feel like he's the only true villain of the show (well, him and mikage), and that abusers like shiori, saionji, kozue, and even touga have a great deal of sympathetic and vulnerable elements that portray them as truly relatable human beings. they're also ultimately still kids who are working out their feelings, while akio is not - this separates him tremendously.

[soprano1]

If you want some dark shoujo, read the latest volume of Sukeban Deka released by Happyscans. Some dreary stuff, mannn. Plus yours truly does the type-setting

I like the 80's-ness of the live action series.

In other news, there's a new Rurouni Kenshin Hokkaido arc chapter out? I thought Watsuki was pretty much done with that porn matter?

[BryanM]

This idea is not very new

Actually the term as used in today's context isn't referring to general Narnia power fantasy stuff. (Which has been around everywhere for forever.) It's more of a specific template with some fairly firm features:

* Protagonist goes to another world.
* Video game elements.
* Gets cheatZ.
* World is powerless against protagonist. Because... that fucker has cheatZ.
* Protagonist gets slave girls. They don't have to be literal slaves, but their entire lives need to revolve around Mr.Protag.
* Protagonist accomplishes all terminal goals immediately in the story.

The popularity of video game elements is pretty obvious. Personally I found the quality of vidya game literature when I was a youth less than satisfactory. Now I require it everywhere. (Think how great It would have been if it had vg elements. "The clown sunk his fangs into the poor bastard and pulled. It did 321 points of damage. Far surpassing the paltry 13 HP of its victim. So naturally, the corpse immediately exploded.")

The My Little Pony emasculated world where other people don't matter... well that's as Miyazaki-sensei explained to us before. There's no benefit from other people to the audience this works for, so they have no interest in them. (The mixing of a variety of terminal goals makes everything far more interesting. Something like Star Wars is no more interesting than a football game when measured by this dimension.)

I think the profit model animation uses for its adult market in Japan is inherently predisposed to this kind of thing. Run your series as an infomercial, price it for hundreds of dollars... of course that's going to sell only to extreme hikikomori. Who can't buy what you're selling anywhere else.

The rise and fall of genres - that path a template takes from being new and exciting to old and played out. Whether it's shoot'em ups, platformers, MMOs, or super hero movies.

EDIT: my wife cried during the first episode of Sakura (she grew up with it, and absolutely adores it). Are we getting *too* old?

Nah, we're just beginning to really feel it.

[wgogh]

It's been said elsewhere, but while Utena may possess elements of mahou shoujo, it doesn't really feel like an example of the genre proper. It's more just a really weird and experimental take on shoujo in general, leaving Madoka to take the title of grimdark magical girl (although it's much less ambitious in actually questioning the conventions of the genre than Princess Tutu).

Also, the Watchman effect is hardly a new trend.

Maybe "Evangelion" effect, we could call it as well. I've seen someone saying that Utena did to shoujo what Evangelion did to mecha more than once. Genre deconstruction is nothing new really.

[Randorama]

Re: drauch.

Probably the earliest examples can be found in any classical literature. I remember someone like Lucretius a (Latin writer) to use a similar idea. I would hardly be surprised if a very old Japanese folktale presented the idea many moons ago: it is ultimately a variant of the hero's journey model, I guess (a la Campbell's hero of a thousand faces: I'll elaborate if neessary).

I actually don't think that manga and anime copied a western trend (Moorcock used the idea a lot, but not many other authors), but they started (ab)using the idea later on. I would consider it a long term trend, rather than a fad: we have been getting this type of series on a regular basis for a while, after all. See below though, please.

Re: Soprano1: yes, Utena! I forgot about it, to be fair, so...

Re: WelshMegalodon: Yes, Princess Tutu is possibly the most refined deconstruction attempt of its genre and of any genre, anime-wise. I mean, the antagonist is the narrator, if I recall correctly. I also agree on Utena, as I think that the director himself decided to just try a meta-narrative approach, fearing that his career was over anyway (I cannot recall where I read this: wikipedia?).

Watchmen effect: yes, I made up a name on the fly, but Moore started using the idea in Miracleman, right? And I cannot recall who used it before. So, back to...

kitten: I believe that there should be an interview on Ikuhara more ore less making the points you report. I believe that the third season of Sailor Moon acted as first stab at those ideas. Am I recalling incorrectly? (I just remember that it was really dark).

BryanM: yes, I think that you could copyright your model and ask for royalties
I believe that there was another name for the traditional version, but I was being lazy.
I am tempted to ask/check around any precise stats/studies regarding the typical purchasers of this stuff...but maybe I am too scared.
I don't doubt the hikikomori group, but I wonder who else might be buying this...stuff.
Also, yes, the informercial model has been around at least since Gundam, I guess.
Because the sponsors must have a reason to finance shows, and so on.

re: Sakura. Lies! We are still as young as Sakura Kimamoto ("inside").

[Durandal]

^^

^^

^^

[soprano1]

That's just...wow.

[Xyga]

your pics don't show so no wow for me :p

[Randorama]

No pics BUT!

new Yowamushi season. Xiga, you *must* be watching this, and cheering for Midotsouji (or whatever the Kyoto guy is called), because he seems to be the only guy who has a clue about proper cycling strategies (...more or less).

[Xyga]

Ha ha, I quit Yowamushi Pedal after the end of the first big 'arc', kinda felt it was going to be more of the same after that, over and over.
But it sure was fun for a while, especially that Midousuji character yes. Did the same with Prince of Pennis which they called the 'dragon ball of tennis' or something but is really about stylish superbois doing ott whatever with otherwise normal stuff, a la Japanese.
(seriously sports manga packed with bishonen though...makes you wonder if they're meant to appeal more to gays or girls, the 'shounen' tag feels off)

[FinalBaton]

So, I sometime watch that Youtube channel dedicated to anime, Digibro. The guy legit has some good reviews sometime, and some very nice historical episodes as well, like that recent one on Mari Masako. But there's something that I can't agree with him on : his constant praise of Evangelion as a god-tier anime. A gift to humans from the Gods.

I'm sorry but I just don't see it. I think Eva is good, but godly? no way. Yes the cinematography is amazing, But cinematography isn't everything. The tone of Eva is non-enjoyable for like 1/3 of the series. Teenage angst is not fun to witness, it's annoying and lame. That makes for a slug of a show, especially towards the end. Shinji is a fucking pussy too, and a non-enjoyable character to follow if I've ever seen one. And I'm not saying this just because he's flawed : Shirotsugh Lhadatt in Royal Space Force : The Wings Of Honneamise is a MASSIVELY flawed character, yet I am interested in following him. Not quite the same with Shinji...

[Xyga]

I think it's awesome up to around halfway, then it gets worse and worse indeed, the fucked up personas take all the room and the main plot's rather empty after all. The finale though (movie to watch in place of the final two episodes) is great even if bat shit nonsense.

As I wrote recently here I think Nadia despite showing its age is a more solid story and script, and Gurren Lagann is overall more solid than both.

Gunbuster and co-produced FLCL remain their best stuff imho. I'd say even Mahoromatic handles its sci-fi theme better than Evangelion.

So many pointless channels on yt, regurgitations of the same consensual stuff you read in those hundreds of insipid 'top xx thing' articles on the internet...
Even admitting it is possible with study and discipline to put the 'best' anything stuff into more rational and objective order (which should be done for posterity), the 'best' is only that for its time in history and when we witness it, then after some time even masterpieces get old.

[FinalBaton]

I think it's awesome up to around halfway, then it gets worse and worse indeed, the fucked up personas take all the room and the main plot's rather empty after all. The finale though (movie to watch in place of the final two episodes) is great even if bat shit nonsense.

As I wrote recently here I think Nadia despite showing its age is a more solid story and script, and Gurren Lagann is overall more solid than both.

Gunbuster and co-produced FLCL remain their best stuff imho. I'd say even Mahoromatic handles its sci-fi theme better than Evangelion.

So many pointless channels on yt, regurgitations of the same consensual stuff you read in those hundreds of insipid 'top xx thing' articles on the internet...
Even admitting it is possible with study and discipline to put the 'best' anything stuff into more rational and objective order (which should be done for posterity), the 'best' is only that for its time in history and when we witness it, then after some time even masterpieces get old.

It takes a dive halfway indeed. exactly what I had in mind

Interesting about Nadia. Haven't seen it but I'll give it a go.

I fucking adore Gunbuster, it's dope stuff.