Under Defeat for DC

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SAM
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Post by SAM »

Play-Asia said they have tried to deliver the LE copy to me yesterday, but since no one was at home yesterday :? , they would have to try again today.

Hopefully I might got the LE copy laying within my room when I return. :)

Play-Asia also said the Sega Direct stock (i.e. those with Poster) haven't come in yet, so for those who order the Sega Direct version, you might need to wait a few days more. :o
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nem
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Post by nem »

140 copies? :shock:

Bloody hell.
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Thunder Force
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Post by Thunder Force »

Ok, Under Defeat is good.

Early on I can already say the game is a joy to play from the casual perspective: approachable and immediately fun without needing to invest hours into learning things. And the whole feel of the game is very appealing. There's something attractive about the fine detailed tiny chopper that leaps off the screen. Through VGA on a good TFT monitor, the glow of the explosions is so rich you almost want to hold your hands up to the screen to feel their warmth; certainly G.Rev went all out on these environmental touches.

It all adds up to make you want to play with it. The aesthetic appeal combined with the approachable gameplay, makes this probably the best helicopter shmup since the original Twin Cobra, and near the top of your list for pick-up & play shmupping when your friends who aren't normally into shmups come around. I wonder if I'm the only one who feels this way? Also sometimes I get a slight Strikers 1945 II vibe during certain moments of the game.

From the hardcore perspective I haven't spent enough time to judge the depth of Under Defeat yet, it certainly feels like G.Rev were going for something more visceral rather than scoring-obsessed with this, but there could be something ultra deep hidden under the surface ala Border Down. The fresh way it implements ground targetting certainly changes the way you think about targetting priorities. The Option Gauge gameplay is very enjoyable. Some aspects of Under Defeat are also vaguely reminiscent of G.Rev's earlier "Ray Trilogy" games but only on some basic level - IMO this is fundamentally not a "Ray" game in any ultimate way. Although the strength of Under Defeat is such that it could be the start of a new franchise, even a new trilogy. (Unlike their port of Border Down I can find no "Arrange Mode" in Under Defeat for remixed stages/enemies, so maybe G.Rev are saving those ideas for an actual UD2)
drsmoo wrote:remember in border down, there were supposed to be birds in the first stage, but they forgot to put them in the dc version? Well... are they there now, in the first stage?
Yes, I can confirm this - I flew straight through a big flock of birds right at the beginning 8) It was very cathartic and finally at long last, we can feel some kind of closure on the Border Down absent birds issue. :P
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Neon
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Post by Neon »

The fresh way it implements ground targetting certainly changes the way you think about targetting priorities. The Option Gauge gameplay is very enjoyable.
Hmm, so far all I know about the gameplay is what incognoscente has posted, what do you mean by these?
Unlike their port of Border Down I can find no "Arrange Mode" in Under Defeat for remixed stages/enemies
Not unexpected, but still a shame. I guess when it's going to have half of Border Down's sales you can't add in a remix mode (basically making a whole new game, from the limited amount of time I've spent with BD's remix mode).

Thanks for the impressions.
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Post by Thunder Force »

Neon wrote:
The fresh way it implements ground targetting certainly changes the way you think about targetting priorities. The Option Gauge gameplay is very enjoyable.
Hmm, so far all I know about the gameplay is what incognoscente has posted, what do you mean by these?
I'm not totally sure here, but the helicopter fires what seems to be a combined weapon that has a secondary permanent air-to-air firing component from your chopper, and a main firing component from your chopper that auto-switches between air-to-air and air-to-ground modes depending on context. (If parts of the scenery are blocking you or not.) Meanwhile the Option Gauge is a bar that refills every few seconds while you are not firing, effectively respawning your accompanying drone (with a choice of drone weapons based on power-ups) when the bar is full and you press fire.

Allowing for your several degrees of swivel, this means if you have a high priority target in the back (top) of the playfield, with lower priority targets inbetween you and it, you have several attack angles with different ways of distributing damage between them. And you have an active red cursor that tracks all over the ground at wildly different distances in front of you, marking your potential air-to-ground targets from your current location and angle.
Last edited by Thunder Force on Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by KBZ »

if you ordered from yakumo, he just got them....ALL OF THEM.

http://www.dreamcast-scene.com/communit ... 1&start=45
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Post by Thunder Force »

Kingbuzzo wrote:if you ordered from yakumo, he just got them....ALL OF THEM.

http://www.dreamcast-scene.com/communit ... 1&start=45
See Kron's post. ;) (His originally imbedded images had to be changed to links as they were large and breaking the forum layout. Much like ST Dragon's usually do)
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nZero
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Post by nZero »

twe wrote:
nZero wrote:How many VMU blocks does the game file take up?
Just 3. :D
Excellent! I can still keep all of my shooty stuff on on VMU... with 14 blocks left for what may yet appear (if anything) then!
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SAM
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Post by SAM »

Wow, just wow. :D the DC version is as close to Neomi version as possible. The only thing missing I could think of is the 29" Baste City monitor. :o

This game has to be played on a VGA monitor in Tate position.
This the one and only one way to play this game. :o

Some scoring tips:
Kill enemy with gun pot to score double (x2). You could damage the enemy with your main gun, then let your gun pot finished the enemy and you could still got the x2 mutiplyer.

The end stages bonus mutiplier is totally depends on the number of lifes you lost?!?! :shock: The more you lost the higher the mutiplier. :lol:

So to scores high you should:
Get killed fast. :o
For best result lost your first two lifes in Stage 1. :x
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Post by Guardians Knight »

Not unexpected, but still a shame. I guess when it's going to have half of Border Down's sales you can't add in a remix mode (basically making a whole new game, from the limited amount of time I've spent with BD's remix mode).
how do you know it'l l only have half of border down's sales? Was there literally half as many copies made, or are you just speculating due to the lack of life left in the dc?
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Neon
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Post by Neon »

Guardians Knight wrote:
Not unexpected, but still a shame. I guess when it's going to have half of Border Down's sales you can't add in a remix mode (basically making a whole new game, from the limited amount of time I've spent with BD's remix mode).
how do you know it'l l only have half of border down's sales? Was there literally half as many copies made, or are you just speculating due to the lack of life left in the dc?
I thought someone had said 4000 copies at one point, or was that Radilgy.
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Post by Kiken »

Neon wrote:I thought someone had said 4000 copies at one point, or was that Radilgy.
4000 was the confirmed print run for Radirgy. NCSX will probably post the numbers for Under Defeat in a day or so.
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Post by Kiken »

nZero wrote:
twe wrote:
nZero wrote:How many VMU blocks does the game file take up?
Just 3. :D
Excellent! I can still keep all of my shooty stuff on on VMU... with 14 blocks left for what may yet appear (if anything) then!
Then the replays are most likely seperate files (like in Zero Gunner 2). Has anybody bothered to save a replay yet?
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Post by Neon »

Kiken wrote:
Neon wrote:I thought someone had said 4000 copies at one point, or was that Radilgy.
4000 was the confirmed print run for Radirgy. NCSX will probably post the numbers for Under Defeat in a day or so.
Oh, excellent. Hope it beats those numbers by a mile.
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Post by Tychom »

Got it today, here's some impressions.

When you put the game in it's immediately Border Down like, you're placed at a VMU screen with an identical layout and from there you go to a series of pictures before hitting the title screen.

Options give about 3 screen modes and you can switch between any of them in-game by using C (on a stick, dunno what that maps to on a pad). You can also rotate the controls so that you can play full screen horizontally.

At game start you're shown the how to play screen followed by your rotation choice, you either rotate left when moving left, likewise right on right, or you can reverse that so moving left points you right etc. Still don't know which I prefer yet but they both seem to have strengths and weaknesses.

The game is gorgeous, I mean it's totally stunning. The textures are lovely, the colours are great, theres so many objects on screen and the attention to detail is just amazing. Notes from the first level: objects leave craters where they explode, smoke plumes out, parts fly leaving trails, the smoke floats across the battlefield obscuring the view. Explosions shake surrounding trees as does the downforce from the copter, when you're firing you have exhaust fumes coming out of your cannon and leaving a trail behind you. When you're at the boss everything that occurs is reflecting down below in the pools of water. Throughout the stage there's little things like cars trying to escape, barrels and crates to destroy.

Gameplay wise you have your main gun constantly powered up Ikaruga style and a temporary subweapon can be launched by not attacking for a few seconds, this option that's deployed will attack in the direction you were facing and will also move about a bit. It appears to be the source of destroying larger enemies speedily as it can pack a punch depending on the weapon type it's equiped with (change by picking up floating power-ups). Your main weapon attacks both ground targets and air, when used against ground targets a little targetting reticule pops up first and right now I reckon there's a minor delay before you begin shooting downwards. When shooting downwards buildings and other obstactles can obstruct you so you either have to manouver to hit them or wait for the target to emerge. Tall obstactles can also be run into. But this kills you :)

On dieing the game freezes momentarily, it's as if it's telling you you suck and it does get frustrating. Fast. On game-overing you get put back to a restart point a-la shooters of old, luckily this doesnt happen on a normal death.

The second level seems bloody hard right now but I'm sure it'll come along in time.
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Post by Tychom »

There's cows at the start of stage 1 too that try to run away but if you kill something near them they keel over in shock :) I wonder if there's an advantage to saving them.
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Post by captain ahar »

Tychom wrote:There's cows at the start of stage 1 too that try to run away but if you kill something near them they keel over in shock :) I wonder if there's an advantage to saving them.
no freaking way! grev wins.
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Post by jp »

I still haven't been charged for this...

Has anybody recieved there's from NCSX?
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!!!!
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Post by LSU »

jp wrote:Has anybody recieved there's from NCSX?
Their website says mine was just shipped yesterday, so it'll be a few days yet before I get it, it has to go all the way from NY to CA to get to me. The waiting is painful.
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Post by Tychom »

On the stage select front it's about as comprehensive as you'll find I reckon, choose any opened stage, any starting point, any difficulty, any number of lives and any starting sub weapon. If you do a level without continuing you get to save a replay to a memory card, they can be watched at any time.
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Post by Frogacuda »

jp wrote:I still haven't been charged for this...

Has anybody recieved there's from NCSX?
Yeah, I already got mine today from NCSX.
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Post by sammaza »

Can someone do some HQ DVD cover and GD-rom Scans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:P
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Post by Neon »

sammaza wrote:Can someone do some HQ DVD cover and GD-rom Scans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:P
Could you please stop trolling? We all know you're smarter because you download the games, but there are debates about that in OT. Let's not derail this too far.
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Post by Sundance »

jp wrote:I still haven't been charged for this...

Has anybody recieved there's from NCSX?
My Bank Account was charged for it..so i know its in the mail ;) Now the excitement builds.
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Post by it290 »

Replay saving, awesome. I know those meager little VMUs aren't going to like it much, though. ;)
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Post by Thunder Force »

Tychom wrote:On dieing the game freezes momentarily, it's as if it's telling you you suck and it does get frustrating.
At first I thought there was something wrong with my Dreamcast, as the game kept freezing momentarily just as I got hit. Or I figured maybe the game needed to load something from the disc at that point. It took me a while to realize this feature is intentional - basically it is there to show you exactly what hit you, so there is never any doubt on the part of the player about why they exploded. Consequently I'll never hear myself saying "WTF hit me?!?!" in Under Defeat. (This is actually a core design element of any friendly and approachable coin-op game, that dates back to the days of Ed Logg: make the player always understand what mistake they made when they die, so they blame themselves and not the game, and therefore have "just one more go" to try to improve.)
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Post by Dave_K. »

Thunder Force wrote:
Tychom wrote:On dieing the game freezes momentarily, it's as if it's telling you you suck and it does get frustrating.
At first I thought there was something wrong with my Dreamcast, as the game kept freezing momentarily just as I got hit. Or I figured maybe the game needed to load something from the disc at that point. It took me a while to realize this feature is intentional - basically it is there to show you exactly what hit you, so there is never any doubt on the part of the player about why they exploded. Consequently I'll never hear myself saying "WTF hit me?!?!" in Under Defeat. (This is actually a core design element of any friendly and approachable coin-op game, that dates back to the days of Ed Logg: make the player always understand what mistake they made when they die, so they blame themselves and not the game, and therefore have "just one more go" to try to improve.)
The stage 2 replay on the g.rev site has an example of this freezing near the begining of the level, I thought it was a capture glitch. Actually you still can't tell why he died, maybe backed into the tall part of the ship scenery?

http://asx.pod.tv/am-sega/free/underdefeat_1_2.asx
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Post by Thunder Force »

Dave_K. wrote:The stage 2 replay on the g.rev site has an example of this freezing near the begining of the level, I thought it was a capture glitch. Actually you still can't tell why he died, maybe backed into the tall part of the ship scenery?
Quite possible, as I've crashed into parts of the ship scenery already too. You fly pretty low so there are some things you can't fly over.
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Post by SAM »

Thunder Force wrote:
Dave_K. wrote:The stage 2 replay on the g.rev site has an example of this freezing near the begining of the level, I thought it was a capture glitch. Actually you still can't tell why he died, maybe backed into the tall part of the ship scenery?
Quite possible, as I've crashed into parts of the ship scenery already too. You fly pretty low so there are some things you can't fly over.
Oh in Under Defeat you could run into ground obticle, in the case the mist of a ship. And got killed.
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