Thoughts on cables and YPbPr vs RGBS / RGsB for PS2?

[ASDR]

Trying to wrap my head around what the best option for my PS2 setup is. I currently have a poor quality PS2 component cable (I get weird shadows / echos from high contrast edges) and am looking to upgrade to something better. I could try to get a better component cable or go for a RGBS / RGsB SCART setup.

- RetroRGB.com suggests that the PS2 has a (slightly) better picture in RGB vs YPbPr, the recent PS2 episode of MyLifeInGaming says they couldn't really tell a difference with their consoles and setups. Hmm.
- It seems high quality SCART RGB cables for the PS2 are readily available, while nobody makes quality component cables anymore. Genuine Sony & Monster cables are getting pricey on eBay (Europe, I think we actually never got official component cables or the Monster ones here. I think I bought the crappy one I have now from Lik-Sang ages ago)
- I use an OSSC, so RGsB is an option. But since there is no auto detection, manual switching between RGBS & RGsB would be a pain, especially for games that switch between 480i and 480p/1080i
- I don't want to bother with any PS2 csync mods
- Since the OSSC does YPbPr over SCART and RGsB over component, the choice of cable doesn't really matter that much, does it? I mean if I can't find a quality component cable I could just get a SCART one and set both the PS2 & OSSC to YPbPr, same thing as getting a component cable in the end, right?

Just trying to get an idea if the entire RGsB thing is worth the trouble, if I should try to track down quality component cables or just go with YPbPr over SCART, etc. Kind of confusing, opinions appreciated!

[jayde6]

I just switched from using official component cables to a nice scart cable going into the ossc and I can't really tell how much better if any it looks, It seems slightly better but could just be placebo. I did have to modify my ossc settings slightly however so be aware you might have to redial some stuff in.

I think really it just comes down to what would be most convenient for your setup.
Do you have a lot of games that switch back and forth between 480i and 480p? It can be annoying but a lot of 480p games are toggle it and you're good till next time you go to play. Which if you are using multiple profiles you probably have the remote with ya anyway.

Also it was said in the MLiG episode that hdretrovision are working on ps2 component cables. No idea how much they will run but they do ship internationally and their other products have been top notch IMO.

Also the scart as component won't work. Setting the ossc to ypbpr will switch inputs and you would get no picture and setting the ps2 to ypbpr will likely result in a green or messed up picture. You could use scart in rgb mode and just choose not to use 480p or 1080i though.

[FBX]

If you're using an OSSC as you say, component PS2 is perfectly fine. Some time ago, I did a comparison screengrab series using optimal timings on the OSSC for the PS2 using both component and RGB, and I couldn't make out any difference in noise or quality. However, some have stated it may depend on the PS2 you have.

I also found that the Framemeister doesn't do quite as clean a job on component as it does processing RGB, so as far as the FM goes, RGB wins out.

[nmalinoski]

Also the scart as component won't work. Setting the ossc to ypbpr will switch inputs and you would get no picture and setting the ps2 to ypbpr will likely result in a green or messed up picture. You could use scart in rgb mode and just choose not to use 480p or 1080i though.

This doesn't sound right. YPbPr uses the same lines as G, B, and R respectively, and the OSSC most definitely supports YPbPr over AV1 (SCART). Ultimately, the OSSC should support all PS2 video modes through SCART (YPbPr, RGBS, RGsB).

That is, of course, if you're hooking the PS2 directly to the OSSC. If you want to connect it through a switch, the easiest way would be to just use component. If you have your heart set on RGB, you'll either have to get a manual SCART switch that bothers to support Sync-on-Green (since the gscartsw_lite doesn't); or, if you want automatic switching, you might have to do something complicated like PS2->SCART->SCART to BNC->gcompsw (Sync line to composite)->BNC to SCART->OSSC (AV1)--I'm not sure there's currently an easier way to support both RGBS and RGsB from the PS2 through a switch; however, if you're patient, there might be an inline SCART sync converter in the works that would automatically convert RGsB to RGBS that would solve this particular problem.

[jayde6]

This doesn't sound right. YPbPr uses the same lines as G, B, and R respectively, and the OSSC most definitely supports YPbPr over AV1 (SCART). Ultimately, the OSSC should support all PS2 video modes through SCART (YPbPr, RGBS, RGsB).

You are absolutely correct, I completely forgot that. Like I mentioned in my post, I just recently switched over to using the scart input on the ossc, I should have learned a bit more before answering that part of the question. Sorry for the misinformation.

[ASDR]

Thanks for all the great feedback! Don't worry jayde6, 'video cabling standards of the 90s' is rocket science and confuses the hell out of me again & again (hence this thread...).

I just switched from using official component cables to a nice scart cable going into the ossc and I can't really tell how much better if any it looks, It seems slightly better but could just be placebo. I did have to modify my ossc settings slightly however so be aware you might have to redial some stuff in.

I think really it just comes down to what would be most convenient for your setup.
Do you have a lot of games that switch back and forth between 480i and 480p? It can be annoying but a lot of 480p games are toggle it and you're good till next time you go to play. Which if you are using multiple profiles you probably have the remote with ya anyway.

Also it was said in the MLiG episode that hdretrovision are working on ps2 component cables. No idea how much they will run but they do ship internationally and their other products have been top notch IMO.

I play quite a few games in HD modes, either natively or forced through, GSM, so I need >480i resolutions. Some games like GT4 (which I play) switch back and forth. Seems like many people don't see a difference in their setups, so I think I'd prefer to just go with component video then for simplicity.

If you're using an OSSC as you say, component PS2 is perfectly fine. Some time ago, I did a comparison screengrab series using optimal timings on the OSSC for the PS2 using both component and RGB, and I couldn't make out any difference in noise or quality. However, some have stated it may depend on the PS2 you have.

I also found that the Framemeister doesn't do quite as clean a job on component as it does processing RGB, so as far as the FM goes, RGB wins out.

Ok, thanks for another data point that RGsB is likely not worth expending a lot of effort / hassle on! (at least for the OSSC)

That is, of course, if you're hooking the PS2 directly to the OSSC. If you want to connect it through a switch, the easiest way would be to just use component. If you have your heart set on RGB, you'll either have to get a manual SCART switch that bothers to support Sync-on-Green (since the gscartsw_lite doesn't); or, if you want automatic switching, you might have to do something complicated like PS2->SCART->SCART to BNC->gcompsw (Sync line to composite)->BNC to SCART->OSSC (AV1)--I'm not sure there's currently an easier way to support both RGBS and RGsB from the PS2 through a switch; however, if you're patient, there might be an inline SCART sync converter in the works that would automatically convert RGsB to RGBS that would solve this particular problem.

All mechanical SCART & component switchers here. Smart switches are stupid. I actually had a gSCART ordered, but cancelled after reading through the entire support thread. I don't want to dump on superg's hard work, it's probably the best automatic switch money can buy, but I don't need another device in my setup with a compatibility checklist. a gscart would cost me 250$+ after shipping & customs, for that kind of money I'd expect something near-perfect. Reading that thread, seeing all the things it doesn't do, RGsB, YPbPr, S-Video, TTL level sync, modded consoles 'officially unsupported', reports of compatibility problems with RGB modded PC Engines and region switched MDs (both of which I own), that's just a risk and hassle I don't want to take on at that price point. I just ordered another Bandridge 7725 to daisy chain. They're 24EUR shipped & sold by Amazon and with the exception of coupling from sync-over-composite they are completely transparent for every signal I've thrown at them. Simple, stupid, cheap, works.


I've decided to just go with YPbPr over component, but I'd love to get some suggestions for how to source a quality cable. The elcheapo one I got looks much worse than my other component devices with Monster / official cables and I don't want to try another Chinese 5$ one. An ebay search yesterday showed no Sony cables on sale and just a few Monster ones with huge shipping costs to Europe. None of the usual sellers like RetroGamingCables make component cables. Are there any other quality cables that I could look for? Worst case I'll just do the YPbPr over SCART thing, but I'd prefer a normal component cable to keep things less confusing.

EDIT:

Found some Sony cables on eBay. Just $94,95 with $68,50 shipping! A real collector's item...

[jayde6]

Found some Sony cables on eBay. Just $94,95 with $68,50 shipping! A real collector's item...

Are you searching specifically for ps2 component cables? The Ps3 ones work (the ones with the silver barrel connectors). ebay for me is showing a handful of those up for sale, strangely all out of Canada. They are cheaper though not cheap. I'm seeing $30 to $40 with like $12 shipping but obviously that's to where I'm at. They are used though, not sure if you're only looking for new or not.

[ASDR]

Found some Sony cables on eBay. Just $94,95 with $68,50 shipping! A real collector's item...

Are you searching specifically for ps2 component cables? The Ps3 ones work (the ones with the silver barrel connectors). ebay for me is showing a handful of those up for sale, strangely all out of Canada. They are cheaper though not cheap. I'm seeing $30 to $40 with like $12 shipping but obviously that's to where I'm at. They are used though, not sure if you're only looking for new or not.

I know that the PS3 cables are identical, but I think most sellers won't ship overseas. I think this is probably a uniquely European problem. The PS2 component cables were not released over here and PAL releases of games had the 480p/1080i support reoved. Same for the Xbox. Cables never came out, PAL BIOS does not support anything >480i. If you softmod your Xbox and switch to NTSC nearly all PAL games output at least 480p through the US component cables. Really strange, I can only conjecture that 480p was considered a military grade resolution and restricted from export :/

Used cables are fine, MyLifeInGaming also recommends the Psyclone branded cables, maybe I can find one of those for cheap somewhere.

[Xer Xian]

Yeah, component cables and switchers are not readily available in Europe. But they do come up every now and then, and generally go for reasonable prices (well, GC excluded) so you really don't need splurge on the random BIN listing. You could also route YPbPr over SCART as already suggested.

Btw, PS2 games with progressive scan (576p) did grace PAL land too Although no one really cared back then..

[ASDR]

Never really had issues getting component switchers, standard cables or gear like DVD players with component out, but for some reason no game console had their component hookups released here :/

I'll just keep looking for a deal on Sony / Monster / Psyclone cables as they all delivered a great picture in the MyLifeInGaming PS2 episode.

[D]

My personal experience with the official PS2 component cables VS the official grey PS1 RGB scart cable is that RGB looks better and not just a little bit. But that could be because of a tv that perhaps handles RGB better than component, so take that how you will.
Besides some games natively supporting 480p, several games can be forced to 480p, So the component is more important to me.
Also several games support 240p. My tv does not support 240p over component.
So really you need both for different games.
Then again most 240p games can also be forced to 480p which makes sense.
I have no good experience with any 3rd party cables for any system ever. I have some kind of transparant short component cables for the xbox that is pretty good and comes close to an official cable though, but that's about it really.

Perhaps I should not discount specialty cables that are produced now by specific companies such as retro gaming cables, etc. But even they use thin cables, why?

[DirkSwizzler]

This is probably a dumb idea but I’m going to share it anyway.

If you need a high quality component cable in Europe. Maybe you can order a packapunch scart from RGC, remove components from the scart head. Then use a scart to RCA adapter/breakout.

I’m pretty sure it’ll work as long as the YPbPr signal is using the same pins on the ps2 a/v connector as rgb. And since the picture still works with the wrong colors if you have the wrong cable setting in the system menu. I’m pretty sure that’s the case.

[ASDR]

My personal experience with the official PS2 component cables VS the official grey PS1 RGB scart cable is that RGB looks better and not just a little bit. But that could be because of a tv that perhaps handles RGB better than component, so take that how you will.
Besides some games natively supporting 480p, several games can be forced to 480p, So the component is more important to me.
Also several games support 240p. My tv does not support 240p over component.
So really you need both for different games.
Then again most 240p games can also be forced to 480p which makes sense.
I have no good experience with any 3rd party cables for any system ever. I have some kind of transparant short component cables for the xbox that is pretty good and comes close to an official cable though, but that's about it really.

Perhaps I should not discount specialty cables that are produced now by specific companies such as retro gaming cables, etc. But even they use thin cables, why?

I'd be going through my OSSC, which supports all the PS2s resolutions and video formats over all cable types. So if you want to get weird you can use RGsB over component or YPbPr over SCART, both the PS2 and the OSSC should support these shenanigans

I can recommend the Monster component cables for the original Xbox, they look great. I have many cables from Retro Gaming Cables, they make quality stuff. I can recommend the fully shielded cables for problematic situations, like long cable runs or if composite video is carried along. Makes a noticeable difference!

This is probably a dumb idea but I’m going to share it anyway.

If you need a high quality component cable in Europe. Maybe you can order a packapunch scart from RGC, remove components from the scart head. Then use a scart to RCA adapter/breakout.

I’m pretty sure it’ll work as long as the YPbPr signal is using the same pins on the ps2 a/v connector as rgb. And since the picture still works with the wrong colors if you have the wrong cable setting in the system menu. I’m pretty sure that’s the case.

I'm sure that the PS2 just outputs either RGB, RGsB or YPbPr over the same three pins on its AV out and you can send RGB over a component video cable or YPbPr over SCART. Cutting off the SCART head and soldering a few RCA connectors on there should be relatively doable, I'll consider this as a fun alternative should my eBay hunt turn up emtpy.

I'm really confused why neither Retro Gaming Cables nor Retro Console Accessories sells component cables for Xbox and PS2. You can get something as obscure as a PS2->BNC cable for your PVM, but a normal component cable for the most widely sold console ever is not being made?

Edit:

How about buying the BNC cable and sticking on one of those:



But that would be so expensive, might as well buy the Monster/Official Sony then...

[nmalinoski]

This is probably a dumb idea but I’m going to share it anyway.

If you need a high quality component cable in Europe. Maybe you can order a packapunch scart from RGC, remove components from the scart head. Then use a scart to RCA adapter/breakout.

I’m pretty sure it’ll work as long as the YPbPr signal is using the same pins on the ps2 a/v connector as rgb. And since the picture still works with the wrong colors if you have the wrong cable setting in the system menu. I’m pretty sure that’s the case.

Does RGC do custom cables? Would they entertain user requests for a cable with 5xRCA instead of SCART?

[fafangus]

I use component on PS2 like that :
PS2 > Component > Xselect D4 YUV out : Extron RGBHV Splitter 1:2 (Plug Component with bnc adaptator on RGB input)
.........................................RGBHV out : Extron RGBS matrix (JVC crt / NNC).........Output 1 : OSSC (480p passtrough to C2)
..................................................................................................................... Output 2 : FM (480i)

Hori PS2 Dterminal cable
Use basics RCA cables to hook the differents steps
Works like a charm

[ASDR]

These cables are a decent price shipped to Ireland.

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/282793464554

You'd need an optical cable for audio though.

Thanks, I scrolled past these as I assumed they were composite cables. I just found some OK-priced new, original Sony cables from an EU Amazon seller for 40EUR. Congrats on your 30EUR find, your eBay-foo is better than mine

One thing about the missing analog audio - I had my PS2 hooked up over optical for ages but recently discovered games that don't support optical out. So I still need to keep the analog hookup connected for those. You might care about playing Mushihimesama, since we're technically on a shooter forum

[RocketBelt]

My own experience with the PS2 comes only from my PAL v7 unit.
Over component there is quite a bit of noticeable noise on black areas.
Also over component, and more serious, the 480i picture is way too dark, I have to adjust the brightness up quite a bit to get it to normal levels. This is when the PS2 is plugged straight into my TV, or going through a DVDO. When I switch to 480p over component the brightness levels are normal, so there's definitely something wrong with my PS2's 480i component output here. Tested this quite thoroughly using the grey ramp test screen in ridge racer v and switching between 480i/480p using gsm.
Because of this, before I got my ossc I was switching between rgb mode for 480i games (where brightness is normal) and component for 480p (where brightness is also normal), not exactly ideal as you need to change output settings in the PS2 as well as re-cable every time.
Also, and this is the most interesting part, I was using the same cable for rgb and component to test all this. It's basically a quality component cable with an extra composite line, meaning it can be used for rgbs just by plugging in the composite line. So I can rule out any bad cable shenanigans in all of this testing, as it was the same cable.

For these reasons I now just use RGB Scart into an OSSC, and now I don't see any noise, and the brightness is correct on 480i/480p. I do have to switch modes on the ossc when switching 480i/p but this is just one button on the remote so it's not inconvenient. Overall the picture is really great and the setup much simpler.

I've never seen anyone else complain about the brightness levels over component on 480i on the PS2, so this can't be an issue on all PS2 models or somebody else would have noticed. And it really is very noticeable on my PS2.

[ASDR]

I got my new component cable today. It's the official Sony one labelled for PS2 & 3 with the silver coated RCA jacks. Holy fuck, what a difference a cable can make. 90% of the video noise and all of those nasty echos/shadows are gone. Looks really good now. There's still a tiny bit of noise visible in certain darker shades, but I don't think I'm going to mess with RGsB or other options to improve it. My main problem was that with the OSSC and my DC & XB looking absolutely perfect through VGA and component it was just really obvious how bad my PS2 looked. With the new cable everything is a bit more level and I don't get that super obvious drop in video quality when I switch on my PS2. The component cable I've been using since the early 2000s looks like the typical 5$ eBay cable. Those are pure crap, it seems.

Thanks for all the suggestions and setup descriptions!

I don't see a brightness difference between 480p/480i. I haven't tested very thoroughly, though.

[Steamflogger Boss]

I got my new component cable today. It's the official Sony one labelled for PS2 & 3 with the silver coated RCA jacks. Holy fuck, what a difference a cable can make. 90% of the video noise and all of those nasty echos/shadows are gone. Looks really good now. There's still a tiny bit of noise visible in certain darker shades, but I don't think I'm going to mess with RGsB or other options to improve it. My main problem was that with the OSSC and my DC & XB looking absolutely perfect through VGA and component it was just really obvious how bad my PS2 looked. With the new cable everything is a bit more level and I don't get that super obvious drop in video quality when I switch on my PS2. The component cable I've been using since the early 2000s looks like the typical 5$ eBay cable. Those are pure crap, it seems.

Thanks for all the suggestions and setup descriptions!

I don't see a brightness difference between 480p/480i. I haven't tested very thoroughly, though.

Yeah, PS2 component is actually quite good you just can't have crappy cables. It's a nice and easy solution to have the PS2 (and PS1 quite frankly) look good. From my experience Sony, Monster and Psyclone are all fine. Of course the Sony ones cost a lot more for basically no reason. Avoiding China crap is the important thing. Good to see you have PS2 looking nice and to your liking.

[ASDR]

I replaced every single of those 5$ cables over the years and each time there was a very noticeable jump in quality. Just not worth it. Been playing PS2 all evening, what a difference. Looks almost as clean as VGA from the DC now.

It seems the Sony PS3 component cables are probably the cheapest option in Europe because the PS2 era 1st & 3rd party component cables were never released here. The customs / tax / shipping makes buying the other cables from abroad quite pricey.

[BazookaBen]

I'm curious to see if anyone's compared the official cables with Monster cables. Wonder if there's any noticeable difference in quality between them.

Monster cables are thicker, so they're probably going to last longer. But if you rarely plug and unplug cables, should make no difference.

[jayde6]

I'm curious to see if anyone's compared the official cables with Monster cables. Wonder if there's any noticeable difference in quality between them.

Before going with scart, I switched from the monster cables with the fiber optic cable to official sony ones and noticed no difference in picture. It surprised me giving how much thinner the official cables are compared to monster, I was sure there was going to be interference, but there wasn't.