Is ESPRade the forgotten Cave underdog?

[ave]

Guys, it's almost 2018 and while almost every other Cave game has experienced some kind of port or appreciation, ESP Ra. De. is still a PCB-only shooting game made by Cave.

Look at this list of Cave appreciation:

DonPachi (PS, SAT)
Dodonpachi (PS, SAT, 360)
ESP Ra. De. --- NONE
Dangun Fever-On (PS4)
Progear (Darius DLC on PS4... Capcom copyright likely blocks port)
Guwange (360)
PGM-Games (PS2, 360, PS3, PS4, PC)
SH3-Games (PS2, 360, PS4, PC)

While I think Guwange and even Dangun deserved to be ported, I'd say they are definitely less accessible than Esprade if I had to rank the pre-PGM shooters by expected mainstream-appeal. Especially with the relatively widespread establishment of the Espgaluda franchise, I am curious why Esprade has been completely forgotten.

A.D. 2018 TOKYO is the time and place for this game, so maybe we will see a port next year?

[copy-paster]

Probably same as Progear, Atlus copyright.

[Sumez]

Wouldn't that have prevented Dangun too? Besides, are there even any official sources on Capcom doing anything to prevent a Progear port? Isn't that really just speculation?

I bet M2 will be ready with a port soon.

As for why the game doesn't get as much love, I'm sure it all comes down to boss milking.

[finisherr]

I personally like ra.de way more than the two galuda incarnations. I'd love a port to PS4 on disc. If I get lucky and find a cabinet, this might be the only Cave PCB I purchase.

[ave]

ESPGaluda Arrange is the absolut best thing Cave ever made with ESP in the name, in my opinion. It combines that the best of ESPGaluda (scoring mechanic), ESPrade (character shot types and weapon) and turns it into a Mushihimesama-style danmaku-hell that's just beautiful to look at and play with.

That being said, an enhanced port of ESPrade with a new arrange mode on disc for PS4 would be great, I'd buy it instantly.

[bikingjahuty]

It's my favorite of the ESP series and for the exact reason you brought up I've only been able to experience it through MAME. Would be nice to have a compilation of all three ESP titles, but this is a pipe dream I doubt will ever happen.

[Plasmo]

Progear has no port either.

And you can't really view any of the Donpachi and Dodonpachi console games as ports. They're incredibly bad, almost unrecognizable.

ESPRade isn't the only one.

[Sumez]

ESPGaluda Arrange is the absolut best thing Cave ever made with ESP in the name, in my opinion.

Wasn't that completely an Arika thing?

[donluca]

ESPGaluda Arrange is the absolut best thing Cave ever made with ESP in the name, in my opinion. It combines that the best of ESPGaluda (scoring mechanic), ESPrade (character shot types and weapon) and turns it into a Mushihimesama-style danmaku-hell that's just beautiful to look at and play with.

That being said, an enhanced port of ESPrade with a new arrange mode on disc for PS4 would be great, I'd buy it instantly.

Glad someone brought that up, I really love everything about ESPGaluda Arrange, especially the music.

[ave]

Progear has no port either.

And you can't really view any of the Donpachi and Dodonpachi console games as ports. They're incredibly bad, almost unrecognizable.

ESPRade isn't the only one.

Calling the PS1 versions "incredibly bad" is polemics you are merely referring so some details that make them not 100%. I am talking about whether a game has gotten attention at all to be ported or shown anywhere outside the arcade. There's no Progear port, but unlike ESPRade, the ships were brought to Dariusburst CS on PS4 as DLC, so it did get some unexpected recent exposure.

Esprade is the only one that has yet to hit a console in any form!

@sumez
That's possible, I am not sure. If ESPGaluda Arrange was purely an Arika thing, then they did a really good job. It would involve Cave's blessing though, because they do use ESPRade characters.

[Bananamatic]

esprade is forgotten because the scoring system is ass, endless boss milking
probably the worst game out of the old cave games by a long shot

also the guwange and 360 ddp ports are hardly even ports, it's just emulation
might as well use mame, heard you can't even remap buttons in instant brain ddp

[KAI]

ESPGaluda Arrange is the absolut best thing Cave ever made with ESP in the name

<3

ESPRade and Progear were both on that XBLA contest, so I don't think they had any problem porting them, but who knows, Capcom is being shit these days.

[SMC]

Calling the PS1 versions "incredibly bad" is polemics you are merely referring so some details that make them not 100%

Part of that not 100% involved breaking chaining mechanics making it completely unusable.

[Plasmo]

There's no Progear port, but unlike ESPRade, the ships were brought to Dariusburst CS on PS4 as DLC, so it did get some unexpected recent exposure.

You do know that the PS2 Galuda Arrange mode featured the Rade characters? It's the exact same situation.

So to answer your question:

"Is ESPRade the forgotten Cave underdog?"

-No

[GSK]

Forgotten? Maybe.

Underdog? Nah.

[Bananamatic]

You do know that the PS2 Galuda Arrange mode featured the Rade characters? It's the exact same situation.

only as functions
the same way mvci features x-men
if you don't know the shot types from rade then you won't recognize them at all

[Squire Grooktook]

Esp Ra.De's okay. Others have elaborated on the stupid boss milking, but even taking that away, I think it's just okay.

The two hit burst > shot combos are fun, but it isn't a meaty / thoughtful enough mechanic to supply the kind of depth that would make the game more memorable (compare, the much more intricate and interesting Shikigami manuevering in Guwange). The bullet patterns are "good" too, but not great.

It's a decent 1cc, fun to pick up every now and then. Mostly notable for the aesthetic IMO.

You do know that the PS2 Galuda Arrange mode featured the Rade characters? It's the exact same situation.

only as functions
the same way mvci features x-men
if you don't know the shot types from rade then you won't recognize them at all

The "function" argument implies they lack their original appearance / aesthetic.

The Esp Ra.De characters all have unique sprites in Galuda, at least.

[Rastan78]

Remember reading somewhere the devs were aware of the boss milking opportunities but they figured no one would have the patience and just left it in. Of course top scores became dependent on it and the devs felt like they learned a lesson. If it's in the game top players will be crazy enough to learn it.

Would be interested in what the metal slug team would have have to say about that btw.

[Xyga]

Calling the PS1 versions "incredibly bad" is polemics you are merely referring so some details that make them not 100%

Part of that not 100% involved breaking chaining mechanics making it completely unusable.

I thought out of the four ports PS1 Donpachi at least was okay (?)

[evil_ash_xero]

Not by me. I love it.

[Mero]

Progear has no port either.

And you can't really view any of the Donpachi and Dodonpachi console games as ports. They're incredibly bad, almost unrecognizable.

ESPRade isn't the only one.

I know about the issues with Dodonpachi but what's wrong with PS1 Donpachi?

[Xyga]

Yeah sorry for the redundance and further thread derailment but to summarize what I gathered about PS1 Donpachi:
I think the yoko mode doesn't look good so it's better played in tate, and 'wait' has to be activated after starting the game if you want slowdowns like the pcb (how accurate I dunno, read somewhere it's still a bit faster than the pcb)
I haven't read a thing about wrong difficulty or scoring being broken, nor 2P ship issue or pause slowdown trick.
Assuming that's all it should be the only one out of the four (DDP SAT, DDP PS1, DP SAT, DP PS1) worth owning/playing (?)

[Metalsludge]

ESPRade is one of my favs and has been for a long time. Fortunately, I was able to pick up the PCB back before prices started going up.

Admittedly, a big part of my fondness is the shallow issue of the cyberpunk influences though. The presentation seems very reminiscent of something from the 90's sci fi of the era, which I found really fun. That sort of thing seemed to have peaked in its influence on Japanese media shortly before the time ESPRade came out, and I still miss some of that style.

If it has been left aside in conversion, perhaps this is partly why. Unlike, say, Guwange, which references sort of timeless horror folklore, ESPRade is very much a product of its specific and brief cultural moment. Franchise revivals aside, we don't see stuff styled like it much anymore. Notice that the sequels were much more colorfully fantastical in setting.

[Sumez]

Would be interested in what the metal slug team would have have to say about that btw.

No one plays Metal Slug for score.

[Despatche]

People like Esprade, it just got unlucky. See above image.

Dangun wasn't published by Atlus.

[neorichieb1971]

Esp ra.de is my favourite Cave game and the first I ever bought. I fell in love on day 1.

Followed by Dai-ou-jou.

[ave]

There's no Progear port, but unlike ESPRade, the ships were brought to Dariusburst CS on PS4 as DLC, so it did get some unexpected recent exposure.

You do know that the PS2 Galuda Arrange mode featured the Rade characters? It's the exact same situation.

Funny that you bring that up, because I did play Espgaluda Arrange for many hours in-depth using JB 5th, but I actually never realized they are Esprade characters until years later when I first played Esprade. This completely slipped my mind when I created this thread, though... so, yes, Esprade was clearly referenced in Espgaluda so it's not completely forgotten. However, it has never been mentioned again since 2003 despite being more accessible (in my opinion) and having a much bigger name than Guwange and Fever-On.

I guess it was just unlucky, as others have pointed out. Still, I find it more fun and accessible and I thought Guwange was an odd choice for a port, but Fever-On was even more odd for a PS4-port.

esprade is forgotten because the scoring system is ass, endless boss milking
probably the worst game out of the old cave games by a long shot

I think whether the scoring system is ass is debatable, I do enjoy it. Even looking at our local Esprade score ranking, it doesn't seem that a big number of people really tried to figure the game out. Boss milking is purely for score and doesn't give you a big advantage otherwise.. it's definitely a design flaw, but overall I think the importance of boss milking as criticism is vastly overstated. It's nothing that would change the game's entire experience unless you really try to push your score beyond 25mil.

I don't see how Esprade would be, in any way, the worst of the old cave games. Feveron, Progear, Donpachi may take that spot any day for me, but that's just, like, my opinion.

[Bananamatic]

Even looking at our local Esprade score ranking, it doesn't seem that a big number of people really tried to figure the game out.

because there a million other shmups that have a less dumb scoring system so no one bothered?
just 1cc and move on

[Johnpv]

For me, this is still my favorite shmup of all time. I really wish it would get some kind of home release.

[ave]

Even looking at our local Esprade score ranking, it doesn't seem that a big number of people really tried to figure the game out.

because there a million other shmups that have a less dumb scoring system so no one bothered?
just 1cc and move on

I wasn't clear - I meant not a lot of people have figured out/done the boss milking, but there are sure a lot of people that figured out the score system, judging by the number of scores in the 10-25 million range (quite a lot). I find the score system quite fun once you learned the stages and know where to use your secondary weapon. The rushes of gold are very satisfying, though surely not as satisfying as Espgaluda Arrange. I see you don't like the game, fair enough, you don't have to like all the games.