Firemen 1 vs 2

[Strider77]

Was just curious how the PS1 sequel compares to the Super Famicom game. Then how the PS1 game is when looking at it on its own merits.

[Skykid]

I remember the PS1 game being significantly worse although it escapes me what the flaws were. I remember there being one in particular that was kind of a game breaker.

[kitten]

i seem to recall when searching for posts about the original on here that BIL was talking about it hearing that it's not as good, but having not given it a full crack? the only thing i specifically remember reading was that the water stream doesn't 100% visually align with your nozzle's exit point while firing downward, which sounded like an alarmingly amateur mistake.

i've only done a single practice run on the first game and recently ordered a copy of the 2nd i won't see for probably months, so i can't say anything, really! there's some stuff sitting around on the search function if you're willing to do a little spelunking for sure, though.

[Skykid]

I think it was BIL talking about it to me specifically, as I went and tried it out shortly after recommending the awesome original.

I can't locate my post now but I remember that there was a fatal flaw in the game design. At a stretch it may have been that the fire doesn't stay out between screens because the areas have to load, resetting previous areas. If it wasn't that it was something like that.

[BIL]

FIREMEN NO NAZO

Most everything I know about FM2 is based on Skykid's field report here. Prior to that, I'd tried it out very briefly aeons ago but had instantly dunked it in the recycle bin on account of yappy cutscenes. That post motivated me to try out the SFC one, which is an absolute gem. Still haven't gone back to FM2.

[drauch]

Yeah, I played through it once and it doesn't maintain the same fast intensity as the first. A lot of dialogue and scenes. Worth goofin' around with if you like the original, but a bit forgettable.

[BrianC]

While the game is playable without knowledge of Japanese, I'm thankful there are versions of the SNES Firemen that can be played in NTSC and English on a flashcart. I do have the actual JP cart, though.

[Koa Zo]

Thanks to Burning Rangers, I got into a "fire fighting" game kick back around 2000-2002.
I instantly fell in love with the SFC Firemen game, and quickly sought out it's sequel.
The extensive dialogue scenes in the PS1 version were off putting at first, and I know I didn't give the game a full go to the ending, until picking it up again some time later and committing myself, it wasn't hard, just disappointing not being able to read the stories.
My specific game element memories are lost to the years, but I've always held a very fond spot in my collection for both of those games.

The two-player aspect is something I always wanted to play-through with, I'm sure it would be lots of fun.

Was there any relation within the Firemen games' development staff and the staff from Gilligan's Island or Goof Troop? I can't remember.

[drauch]

It is kinda neat there's multiple endings, at least. Two player though is a bit of a bummer. I'm too lazy to look up who's Peter and who's Danny, but if you're not the guy with the hose your experience is pretty dull. A friend and I were both fans of the original and we played 2 together. He got stuck with the axe and didn't have the best of times. It's much more a one-player game.

[lackofselfcontrol]

This is what I noted about Firemen 2 in comparison to the first one:

"No backdrafts, no heatwaves, no explosions, no crumbling floor, no falling objects, boring bosses, no doors, passageways that lead to nothing, no enemies that require the low water spray, friend gets stuck on objects and randomly runs away, drab levels which feel completely disconnected from each other, crawling ability is there but not used - no ruptured gas pipes or vents to traverse."

[Mortificator]

I was going to play through both games back-to-back to make a comparison, but I hit an unexpected snag in the first one. Multiple times, my health would suddenly drain down to the tiniest margin. I definitely wasn't hit and there was plenty of time left on the clock. Emulator glitch, or mechanic I missed encountering before?

[BIL]

Totally offhand, that sounds like a bug. I never encountered anything like it when I was playing the SFC version like crazy last summer.

EDIT: actually, I vaguely recall a health drain occurring when time runs out. Will try out the JP ver and report back... Yep, that's exactly how it works. Sounds like a bug for sure, if it's happening with time left on the clock.

Out of curiosity, which version were you playing? Just yesterday I was discussing Silent Bomber, whose PAL (and possibly NTSCU) version adds a nasty random hang after a later boss fight. Maybe it's a regional thing.

[Strider77]

The SFC version.. there's no language barrier is there?

[drauch]

Nope. All just story fluff.

[kitten]

yep, i played it blind and had no problem. you might miss some introductions to new enemies or hazards or mention of nearby people that need rescuing, but that's all stuff that's fairly intuitive.

[Mortificator]

Totally offhand, that sounds like a bug. I never encountered anything like it when I was playing the SFC version like crazy last summer.

EDIT: actually, I vaguely recall a health drain occurring when time runs out. Will try out the JP ver and report back... Yep, that's exactly how it works. Sounds like a bug for sure, if it's happening with time left on the clock.

Out of curiosity, which version were you playing? Just yesterday I was discussing Silent Bomber, whose PAL (and possibly NTSCU) version adds a nasty random hang after a later boss fight. Maybe it's a regional thing.

PAL. I followed up on your timer lead, and saw that starting with stage 2, life would drain to 1% when the clock reached ~1:40! There was no additional penalty when time ran out.

This happened in a couple of emulators, though it could still be due to emulation. If it was an issue on the actual hardware, I'd have thought someone else would have noticed before now.

[BIL]

PAL. I followed up on your timer lead, and saw that starting with stage 2, life would drain to 1% when the clock reached ~1:40! There was no additional penalty when time ran out.

This happened in a couple of emulators, though it could still be due to emulation. If it was an issue on the actual hardware, I'd have thought someone else would have noticed before now.

Very interesting! That sounds almost like a version tweak... it doesn't happen on JP, at any rate. I guess they were trying to make the timer more threatening at intermediate level. Wouldn't change Expert mode much... by the point you're going for ULTIME FIREMAN rank, you're caning your ass off and avoiding damage like the plague anyway. I wonder if anything else changed.

Such a great game. Like most great games I've not touched in a year-plus, it's even better than I skeptically recalled! Hard to put down. The one thing I'd add is a simple Danny AI toggle on the unused button, just to manually switch him between his default "roam about attacking nearby fires," and the "shadow player, kill anything that approaches" mode that kicks in when you're being accosted by mechs. Then again it's kinda fun and intense learning how to direct his AI. He'll also reliably take point and go nuts with the axe when you're hacking your way through fire-choked corridors like the ones before st2's top floor.

Is that an X68000 at the reception desk?



Total conjecture here, but with the game's developer competition origins, it wouldn't surprise me if it got its start on one ala M2's Mega Drive Gauntlet.

EDIT: and oh wao, I'd totally forgotten about this little Easter Egg:

Spoiler

SuperDeadite would be proud

[kitten]

PAL. I followed up on your timer lead, and saw that starting with stage 2, life would drain to 1% when the clock reached ~1:40! There was no additional penalty when time ran out.

This happened in a couple of emulators, though it could still be due to emulation. If it was an issue on the actual hardware, I'd have thought someone else would have noticed before now.

Very interesting! That sounds almost like a version tweak... it doesn't happen in the JP version, at any rate. I guess they were trying to make the timer more threatening at intermediate level. Wouldn't change Expert mode much... by the point you're going for ULTIME FIREMAN rank, you're caning your ass off and avoiding damage like the plague anyway. I wonder if anything else changed.

i wonder if this has anything to do with the with the PAL version being played in 50hz and how the timer operates. 50hz is 83% of the 60hz it was made to run at, and the timer starts at 10 minutes. if the on-screen timer is running ~17% slower, wouldn't you hit 10 minutes of actual time passed right around 1m40s? it's possible the on-screen timer is operating slower, but the timer for health to start draining isn't.

at least, that's my guess!

[BIL]

^ A very sound hypothesis!

[BrianC]

PAL. I followed up on your timer lead, and saw that starting with stage 2, life would drain to 1% when the clock reached ~1:40! There was no additional penalty when time ran out.

This happened in a couple of emulators, though it could still be due to emulation. If it was an issue on the actual hardware, I'd have thought someone else would have noticed before now.

Very interesting! That sounds almost like a version tweak... it doesn't happen in the JP version, at any rate. I guess they were trying to make the timer more threatening at intermediate level. Wouldn't change Expert mode much... by the point you're going for ULTIME FIREMAN rank, you're caning your ass off and avoiding damage like the plague anyway. I wonder if anything else changed.

i wonder if this has anything to do with the with the PAL version being played in 50hz and how the timer operates. 50hz is 83% of the 60hz it was made to run at, and the timer starts at 10 minutes. if the on-screen timer is running ~17% slower, wouldn't you hit 10 minutes of actual time passed right around 1m40s? it's possible the on-screen timer is operating slower, but the timer for health to start draining isn't.

at least, that's my guess!

I should check the US prototype and the PAL to NTSC hack to see if they have this same behavior.