Soul Star, Galaxy Force, Scaling & Rotation, PCE,SNES &a

[Specineff]

I wonder if the guys at MindRec could work some of their PCE CD magic on the Sega CD. FragMare, you listening?

[Keranu]

From what I heard from programmers, programming on the Sega CD is annoying.

[gameoverDude]

Galaxy Force II on SNES would probably push it a tad too far. It'd probably be stripped down even more than the Genesis one. GFII on the Sega CD wouldn't have been bad as long as the developers knew the hardware's limits.

After Burner II on Genesis did have good rotation- Dempa did wonders on this one. It's a shame they didn't get the job for Super Hang-On, which was a choppy mess on the Genny.

Power Drift on the Saturn is a decent PLAYING port. The reduced framerate bothers me more than it would most, since I had played the hell out of the original (complete with the tilting cab). You will notice the position markers moving a tad choppily on the track map. They are smooth on the arcade version. It's a shame Rutubo Games didn't do this one- their ports of Out Run, After Burner, and Space Harrier were maybe 99% perfect. The Dreamcast PD is 60 FPS and perfect.

D3's remake of Golden Axe sucks more than a thousand Hoovers. The heroes are slow in this one. So slow that if you whiff a high-recovery attack, someone on the other edge of the screen has enough time to come over and punish you hard. The character models look like they come from a System 12 game.

[BrianC]

Nobody here has played the SEGA Ages Saturn Memorial collections? I'll probably get one anyway since they are cheap, but I really want to know how the ports turned out. Did they turn out near arcade perfect like SEGA Ages Fantasy Zone, Space Harrier, and Outrun?

Out of curiousity, what framerate does the Genesis Galaxy Force II run at?

[The Coop]

Power Drift on the Saturn is a decent PLAYING port. The reduced framerate bothers me more than it would most, since I had played the hell out of the original (complete with the tilting cab). You will notice the position markers moving a tad choppily on the track map. They are smooth on the arcade version. It's a shame Rutubo Games didn't do this one- their ports of Out Run, After Burner, and Space Harrier were maybe 99% perfect. The Dreamcast PD is 60 FPS and perfect.

I heard the opposite... that the DC version was worse.


BrianC- Couldn't say. I've never played that collection of games. I've seen it a few times, but...

[Marc]

Power Drift on the Saturn is a decent PLAYING port. The reduced framerate bothers me more than it would most, since I had played the hell out of the original (complete with the tilting cab). You will notice the position markers moving a tad choppily on the track map. They are smooth on the arcade version. It's a shame Rutubo Games didn't do this one- their ports of Out Run, After Burner, and Space Harrier were maybe 99% perfect. The Dreamcast PD is 60 FPS and perfect.

I heard the opposite... that the DC version was worse.


BrianC- Couldn't say. I've never played that collection of games. I've seen it a few times, but...

The DC version seems to be a straight port of the Saturn version just with a higher frame-rate. From what I can tell anyways.

[Neon]

Power Drift on the Saturn is a decent PLAYING port. The reduced framerate bothers me more than it would most, since I had played the hell out of the original (complete with the tilting cab). You will notice the position markers moving a tad choppily on the track map. They are smooth on the arcade version. It's a shame Rutubo Games didn't do this one- their ports of Out Run, After Burner, and Space Harrier were maybe 99% perfect. The Dreamcast PD is 60 FPS and perfect.

I heard the opposite... that the DC version was worse.


BrianC- Couldn't say. I've never played that collection of games. I've seen it a few times, but...

The DC version seems to be a straight port of the Saturn version just with a higher frame-rate. From what I can tell anyways.

Probably doesn't have true low res.

Didn't arcade PD run at 30 fps?

[gameoverDude]

Didn't arcade PD run at 30 fps?

It's 60 FPS, I'm sure. The Saturn one looks more like 30 to me.

Genesis GFII is actually smoother than the Saturn one (maybe even 60 FPS), but so much had to be stripped out graphically to get it there.

[Alpolio]

Ahh... back when a 3D game meant something really cool.

[joeblade]

GF2 and Power Drift on the Saturn were poor ports of the arcade versions.

I wouldn't say poor because of 30 FPS, still very playable and Power Drift has an arranged soundtrack and all that. And they're the best ports till they get ps2 releases.

You're right... poor was probably a little harsh for Power Drift, but I'm standing by it for GF2, just because I felt like the port itself was pretty sloppy. I actually eBayed mine shortly after I got it in the mail.

How was the DC version of Power Drift? I read it was 60fps and was a more faithful port, but unfortunately, I never had a chance to play it. So many fond memories of this game in arcades...

Hi Guys...just thought i'd add as this is a great sega thread.

Actually..Power Drift on the DC is an improvement in terms of graphics & frame rate over the saturn version.. looks to be very near to 60fps.

However..it's probably just me..but i can't play the damn thing with my DC Steering wheel..it just doesn't handle right.. give me the saturn steering wheel any day of the week.

[FraGMarE]

I wonder if the guys at MindRec could work some of their PCE CD magic on the Sega CD. FragMare, you listening?

Currently, we don't have anything planned (as far as game development) for any system except the PC-Engine. Bt Garner has recently been looking into getting a Dreamcast development environment set up, as well as one for the XBox360 and J2ME (for mobile devices). So, after our current PC-Engine projects are completed, we will probably expand our game development to one or more of those platforms. This doesn't mean, of course, that we won't be making PC-Engine games any more. It simply means we'll be making more than just PC-Engine games at some point. When might that be, you ask? Well, we have PC-Gunjin to complete, then Xymati, then an as-yet-unnamed RPG, and another PC-Engine game after that, so yea... it's going to be a while (a couple years).

But to more directly respond to your post, we don't have any immediate plans to develop any games for the SegaCD.

[AirRaidX]

MegaDrive-Genesis translation of Galaxy Force II - piss poor.

FM Towns Marty translation of Galaxy Force II - supposedly pretty decent
(no hardware scaling though)

hypothetical MegaCD/SegaCD translation of Galaxy Force II - could have been decent, with real scaling & rotation, but still nowhere near as good as the arcade since MegaCD/Sega did not upgrade the amount of sprites that could be pushed (80) vs the Arcade System Y that ran Galaxy Force II which could push at least 256 sprites.

The NEC SuperGrafx was *supposed* to get a translation of
Galaxy Force II, this game was the most likely to be real, of any of the unreleased SuperGrafx games. supposedly it was shown off to the press in Japan. but it is also possible it was a standard PC-Engine game, but I'd like to hope it was for SuperGrafx.

I am NOT certain if the SuperGrafx truly, actually had scaling & rotation *in-hardware* as the SNES and SegaCD did. It was originally reported that the P.C.-Engine2 would have scaling & rotation. but the full spec of P.C. Engine2 did not make it into the released SuperGrafx (P.C.Engine2 was going to be real 16-bit with real 16-bit CPU, better graphics AND better audio).... the 8-bit SuperGrafx may or may not have had scaling & rotation.... EGM reported the following: quote: "With some software support, the SG may even be able to accomplish arcade-quality movements such as rotation and scaling." but there has never been any confirmation that SuperGrafx actually has it.

It was thought that the much more powerful FM-Towns Marty had scaling & rotation, but it does not. in games like Turbo OutRun and Galaxy Force II, they use 'software scaling' where the sprites are redrawn. It is very possible that the NEO-GEO also lacks hardware scaling. while Neo-Geo may or may not have hardware scaling, Neo-Geo definitally lacks hardware rotation. for NEO-GEO, EGM reported: quote "limited rotation accessible through software".... although in the same sentance they said Neo-Geo had built-in scaling. In my opinion, the SuperGrafx *should* have had hardware scaling & rotation, but I have no proof to say that it did. I kinda recall scaling in Aldynes, in at least one of the later stages but it might have been software scaling. I don't know... and I haven't looked at SuperGrafx's take on Galaxy Force, that is, Battle Ace, close enough to see if the scaling really was hardware scaling....note that in MD-Genesis AfterBurner II, they fake scaling VERY nicely with the planes & missiles, but we all know MD-Genesis totally lacks any hardware scaling. I can say this, the PC-Engine, even with the Arcade Card CD, cannot do true hardware scaling & rotation like the MegaCD/SegaCD and SNES can (even the SNES is limited in what it can do, S&R wise, tho it is in hardware)


I am willing to go out on a pretty sturdy limb and say that the SuperGrafx did NOT have scaling & rotation. the much more powerful Sharp X68000 did not have it. the even more powerful FM-Towns Marty did not have it, and the NEO-GEO *might* not have had it.


Saturn 'port' of Galaxy Force II - they kept most if not all of the graphics but the framerate is ~30fps with slowdown on top of that -- the Arcade was a rocksolid 60fps.... which is a damn shame since Saturn hardware is VASTLY more powerful than the System Y board for the arcade. Saturn can push tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of sprites. the arcade can only do a few hundred. It MUST be the developers fault not the Saturn's fault. In Sega Ages AfterBurner II on Saturn (not 32X) Rutubo Games pretty much rivaled the arcade in every way. Arcade and Saturn are 60fps. (32X version is closer to 30fps)... In Saturn OutRun, they surpassed the arcade by including a 60 frames per second mode (as well as the original arcade's 30fps)...... as far as I know, Rutubo did NOT do Saturn Galaxy Force II or Power Drift. whoever did, did a BAD job, even though Saturn Galaxy Force II is the closest home version not counting MAME or FinalBurn emulation (FinalBurn rocks for GFII, 60fps!) although it doesnt have the rotation)

I am hoping the announced Playstation2 version of Galaxy Force II comes out. it was supposed to be the first exact port of the game for home.


p.s. I too have Power Drift for Dreamcast on Yu Suzuki Game Works vol 1
- I am not overly familar with the arcade, but I can say that the Dreamcast version seems to be 60fps with no slowdown. It is WAY smoother than Saturn Galaxy Force II.... remember that both Galaxy Force II and Power Drift ran on the same triple-68000 CPU arcade board, System Y (sometimes called the Galaxy Force hardware).... The Saturn version of Power Drift is meant to be around 30fps from what I've heard, and I would not be surprised if it was 'ported' (poorly) by the same incompetent team that did Saturn Galaxy Force II, and using the same lousy engine. Again this is incredibly sad because the Saturn is MASSIVELY more powerful than the System Y arcade board that powers both games.

[AirRaidX]

Galaxy Force II on SNES would probably push it a tad too far. It'd probably be stripped down even more than the Genesis one. GFII on the Sega CD wouldn't have been bad as long as the developers knew the hardware's limits.

I agree. SNES would struggle doing GFII though not as bad as Genesis did. SegaCD could've done a decent job, but still not even close to the arcade.... compare "AfterBurner III" on SegaCD, which is really a conversion of the arcade Strike Fighter. (which looks similar to G-Loc) to the arcade version of Strike Fighter. that is probably how Galaxy Force on SegaCD would look. btw, the FM Towns Marty got a conversion of Strike Fighter, also renamed AfterBurner III. it seems a little better than the SegaCD in screenshots, but not as good as the arcade.

After Burner II on Genesis did have good rotation- Dempa did wonders on this one. It's a shame they didn't get the job for Super Hang-On, which was a choppy mess on the Genny.

Agreed. Genesis version was pretty good as far as the software scaling and rotation.. Dempa also did the X68000 version, which might've been a little better, but very similar to the Genesis version. I'm not sure who developed it, probably Dempa, but X68000 version of THUNDER BLADE is very exellent. by far the best home version of the arcade, even though it is in reality probably 50% of the arcade. the software scaling is very nice, probably half as smooth as the arcade, but MUCH better the Genesis SuperThunderBlade which is very choppy.

Power Drift on the Saturn is a decent PLAYING port. The reduced framerate bothers me more than it would most, since I had played the hell out of the original (complete with the tilting cab). You will notice the position markers moving a tad choppily on the track map. They are smooth on the arcade version. It's a shame Rutubo Games didn't do this one- their ports of Out Run, After Burner, and Space Harrier were maybe 99% perfect. The Dreamcast PD is 60 FPS and perfect.

totally agreed. Rutubu could've done a 99% perfect Galaxy Force II and PowerDrift, like they did with AfterBurner II, OutRun (60fps better than arcade!!!!!) and Space Harrier.

D3's remake of Golden Axe sucks more than a thousand Hoovers. The heroes are slow in this one. So slow that if you whiff a high-recovery attack, someone on the other edge of the screen has enough time to come over and punish you hard. The character models look like they come from a System 12 game.

exactly.

[Keranu]

Wow, I had no idea they were planning to make Galaxy Force II for Super Grafx, that would've been interesting to see, especially since After Burner II came out so nicely on the PCE. I don't know for sure if the Super Grafx had scailing and rotating effects, but I am definitely leaning towards the "it didn't side", because now that I think about it, the only spots I read where it did have scailing and rotating was in those EGM article scans you posted one PCEFX.

(P.C.Engine2 was going to be real 16-bit with real 16-bit CPU, better graphics AND better audio).... the 8-bit SuperGrafx may or may not have had scaling & rotation....

Sorry, just had to comment on this. "Bits" can be a pretty bad way to compare hardware. The PCE's 8-bit processor was wonderful, it was over 2x faster than the SNES 16-bit processor and technically it was even faster than the Genesis' 16-bit processor since it takes longer to execute instructions on the Genesis processor.

[AirRaidX]

I thought this would be perfect for this thread

from the Jan-Feb 1991 Mega Play magazine, a preview of Galaxy Force II for the MegaDrive
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/8750 ... 1364ng.jpg

but naturally they use screenshots from the ARCADE version

looking at the best scenes from Battle Ace (with the lightning).....
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/9494 ... tleace.jpg

I don't think even SuperGrafx could've touched the arcade Galaxy Force

[AirRaidX]

I thought that mega CD has no hardware effects like SNES.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mega_CD#Te ... ifications

It doesn't say how, but it does mention these effects. My guess is it was simply done in software thanks to the then quite fast 12.5MHz 68K processor (compared to the 7.6MHz 68K in the MegaDrive).

I could be wrong, but I think the SegaCD has, in addition to the 12.5 MHz 68000, a special ASIC chip that handles the scaling & bi-axial rotation in hardware. edit: yes it does, google: Sega bi-axial ASIC

what the SegaCD lacked was yet another additional chip that would boost the color capabilities of the Genesis (and maybe sprite handling too) but this chip(s) was *supposedly* cut out of the final MegaCD/SegaCD, but don't take that as gospel, i'm too shakey on that.

I think that the SegaCD's built-in hardware scaling & rotation capabilities, are superior to that of the *base* Super Famicom / SNES, without extra DSPs/processors in the Nintendo cartridges.

The Super Famicom / SNES was originally going to have more extensive and powerful scaling, rotation and "3D" sprite manipulation capbilities. not to the extent of the SuperFX chip in StarFox, but at least what you see in Pilotwings and Mario Kart. the final SFC/SNES had some of the capabilities cut out and/or reduced.


http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys ... urce&hl=en

The first batch of games for the Super Famicom were developed around 1988 and 1989. Popular Super Famicom titles, like F-Zero and Super Mario World, were the most difficult for several reasons--if nothing else, the Super Famicom hardware specifications changed in small ways at least twice during the development project, requiring changes to existing code. (Trivia tidbit: the original Super Famicom plans called for much more extensive onboard 3D hardware--PilotWings was developed assuming that this hardware would be present, and since this chip was scrapped from the Super Famicom at the last minute, Nintendo was forced to include this 3D chip on the PilotWings board in order to keep the game on schedule.)

[Thunder Force]

I am hoping the announced Playstation2 version of Galaxy Force II comes out. it was supposed to be the first exact port of the game for home.

Every few weeks I go to the lineup page to make sure it's still there.

Still no release date though... they don't even confirm it will be out in 2006. But the descriptions makes it sound like they are committed to making the project perfect, so it should be worth the wait, even if it slips to 2007.

[AirRaidX]

I am hoping the announced Playstation2 version of Galaxy Force II comes out. it was supposed to be the first exact port of the game for home.

Every few weeks I go to the lineup page to make sure it's still there.

Still no release date though... they don't even confirm it will be out in 2006. But the descriptions makes it sound like they are committed to making the project perfect, so it should be worth the wait, even if it slips to 2007.

<sigh>

[Keranu]

Will we ever get a perfect conversion of Galaxy Force II for home consoles!? Oh the humanity!

[AirRaidX]

Will we ever get a perfect conversion of Galaxy Force II for home consoles!? Oh the humanity!

or the dozens and dozens of other 2D-sprite and 3D-polygon SEGA arcade games

Thunder Blade, Shinobi, Altered Beast, Golden Axe, Shadow Dancer, G-LOC, Golden Axe Revenge Of Death Adder, OutRunners, Daytona USA, Virtual-On, Virtua Fighter 3 (dreamcast was 85-90%) Scud Race, Daytona2, the list goes on forever.

[Thunder Force]

or the dozens and dozens of other 2D-sprite and 3D-polygon SEGA arcade games

Thunder Blade, Shinobi, Altered Beast, Golden Axe, Shadow Dancer, G-LOC, Golden Axe Revenge Of Death Adder, OutRunners, Daytona USA, Virtual-On, Virtua Fighter 3 (dreamcast was 85-90%) Scud Race, Daytona2, the list goes on forever.

So true... list also includes Galaxy Ranger, Wing War, Alien 3: The Gun, The Lost World, Rad Mobile, L.A. Machineguns, Planet Harriers, Indy 500, etc. etc.

We do need more and faster PS2 Ages releases... hopefully they'll keep them coming for the entire 10-year lifecycle of the PS2.

[Ed Oscuro]

I see Night Striker's been mentioned...how do the various ports hold up? There are three (that I know of):

Mega CD
Saturn
PlayStation

Of these, the Saturn one seems most expensive (maybe another Ving title?)

Will we ever get a perfect conversion of Galaxy Force II for home consoles!? :shock: Oh the humanity! :lol:

or the dozens and dozens of other 2D-sprite and 3D-polygon SEGA arcade games

Thunder Blade, Shinobi, Altered Beast, Golden Axe, Shadow Dancer, G-LOC, Golden Axe Revenge Of Death Adder, OutRunners, Daytona USA, Virtual-On, Virtua Fighter 3 (dreamcast was 85-90%) Scud Race, Daytona2, the list goes on forever.

Many of those at least got a port...I can think of a number of equally good Konami titles that never did, which is a travesty (Vendetta/Violent Storm, Mystic Warrior, the Thunder Cross games etc.). I'd love to see a good port of Shadow Dancer. Wonderful as the Genesis game is (one of my top three most played Genesis games), it should've been released under a different name, I think.

[gameoverDude]

I thought this would be perfect for this thread

from the Jan-Feb 1991 Mega Play magazine, a preview of Galaxy Force II for the MegaDrive
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/8750 ... 1364ng.jpg

but naturally they use screenshots from the ARCADE version

looking at the best scenes from Battle Ace (with the lightning).....
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/9494 ... tleace.jpg

I don't think even SuperGrafx could've touched the arcade Galaxy Force

I'd bet against the Super Grafx GFII being close to the arcade, but it may well have beat the Genesis one if it came out.

I love how these screenshots show something notably absent from the Genesis version- the tilt.

That Saturn port of Night Striker is pretty much arcade perfect save for loading between stages.

[AirRaidX]

I thought this would be perfect for this thread

from the Jan-Feb 1991 Mega Play magazine, a preview of Galaxy Force II for the MegaDrive
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/8750 ... 1364ng.jpg

but naturally they use screenshots from the ARCADE version

looking at the best scenes from Battle Ace (with the lightning).....
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/9494 ... tleace.jpg

I don't think even SuperGrafx could've touched the arcade Galaxy Force

I'd bet against the Super Grafx GFII being close to the arcade, but it may well have beat the Genesis one if it came out.

I love how these screenshots show something notably absent from the Genesis version- the tilt.

That Saturn port of Night Striker is pretty much arcade perfect save for loading between stages.

of course, since the FM Towns Marty (capable of upto 1024 sprites) version of Galaxy Force II was not really close to the arcade, the less powerful SuperGrafx (128 sprites) would not've been able to come anywhere near close, although better than the MegaDrive version, it would be an interesting comparison between SuperGrafx and MegaCD.

you can look at MegaCD AfterBurner III (translation of Strike Fighter) as to how the MegaCD could've handhandled GFII. maybe a little better if more effort was put into it.

there are no excuses for the Saturn not to have had 60fps arcade-identical ports of GFII and PowerDrift.

[The Coop]

you can look at MegaCD AfterBurner III (translation of Strike Fighter) as to how the MegaCD could've handhandled GFII. maybe a little better if more effort was put into it.

Not to sound argumentative, but AfterBurner III was an afterbirth burned onto a CD graphically. It didn't use any of the capabilities of the Sega CD. Truthfully, the Genesis game AfterBurner II looked and scaled better. If you want to see how the Sega CD could have handled a GFII port, look at Soul Star.

[gameoverDude]

you can look at MegaCD AfterBurner III (translation of Strike Fighter) as to how the MegaCD could've handhandled GFII. maybe a little better if more effort was put into it.

Not to sound argumentative, but AfterBurner III was an afterbirth burned onto a CD graphically. It didn't use any of the capabilities of the Sega CD. Truthfully, the Genesis game AfterBurner II looked and scaled better. If you want to see how the Sega CD could have handled a GFII port, look at Soul Star.

ABIII for SCD looks like a Genesis 4 Meg cartridge game. The FM Towns version has better looking enemy planes and missiles but is lacking any ground detail (there are dots on the ground instead of any terrain).

I think this one needs to hit the PS2 next.

[Specineff]

The 32X version of AB 2 was ported directly from the board's code. There's a trick that gets you into the test menu, in which you can adjust the tilt of the cabinet. So you don't really need to wait for the PS2 release.

Too bad they didn't do Galaxy Force on the 32X. It should have been able to handle it just fine.

[elvis]

I thought that mega CD has no hardware effects like SNES.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mega_CD#Te ... ifications

It doesn't say how, but it does mention these effects. My guess is it was simply done in software thanks to the then quite fast 12.5MHz 68K processor (compared to the 7.6MHz 68K in the MegaDrive).

Games like Castlevania on MD showed similar effects, and even titles like Gynoug did some pretty neat stuff.

I wasn't software, it was handled in its hardware. Every magazine back in the day specifically mentioned that the Sega CD had hardware scaling and rotation (a big deal back then) when it was getting ready for release in Japan. There weren't that many games that used it, partly because of the laziness of developers who didn't want to invest a lot of time in finding out just what the system could do, and thus were content in making cart games with CD music, and FMV tripe. So when it was all over, there were really only a few developers who actually used what the Sega CD offered in terms of storage capacity and hardware capabilities.

The Sega/Mega CD most certainly does its scaling and rotation effects in hardware.

Sorry, I should clarify:

By "software" I don't mean pre-drawn sprites. I mean that the developers wrote a software routine that then used the comparatively speedy hardware to rotate the sprites.

To me, "hardware" rotation means there is a piece of hardware dedicated to rotation, ala the SNES. The developers don't need to write their own routines (or even use an existing API), they simply call on the hardware which has all the routines built in.

"Software" rotation to me is still done by the hardware - ie: not using a library of pre-drawn sprites, but actually taking a single sprite and rotating it to then re-render to the screen. But instead of calling the hardware directly, the programmer either writes a software routine or makes an call to an existing software API that then calls the hardware on their behalf.

Multi-purpose CPU + software routine (MegaCD's 12MHz 68K) vs Sinlge-purpose hardware (SNES's dedicated rotation chip). I hope that clarifies what I meant.

Unless of course there is a single, dedicated "rotation" chip inside the MegaCD that I am unaware of, and isn't documented on Wikipedia. Then my theory goes out the window.

And to the comment above about "every magazine back in the day" - I still have my entire 80's collection of both UK and US games magazines. Going back and re-reading them today is a laugh. Those guys were so hopelessly clueless about hardware it wasn't funny. One CV+G magazine I had actually considered "RISC" to be a particular brand of CPU, rather than a generic term for a particular style of instruction handling. Very funny stuff.

Don't take old games mags (or even new ones) as gospel. If you really want to know how game console hardware works, the best places to visit are emulation sites. Read the technical docs on how their emulators work, and you'll get a better understanding of console hardware than ever before. In fact, the whole reason so many emulators exist is because authors were often more interested in learning about how the hardware worked than pirating games. Game playing was merely an accidental side effect of emulation for most projects.

[BrianC]

Are the ports of Space Harrier, Outrun, and After Burner II in the US SEGA Ages three pack for the Saturn the same as the stand alone JP versions? Does Space Harrier have the bottom glitch in the Japanese Saturn version? Should I get the US SEGA Ages Saturn, or import the Japanese indvidual games?

It's a pity Galaxy Force II Saturn turned out the way it did. Saturn could definatly handle the game at full frame rate.

[AirRaidX]

Are the ports of Space Harrier, Outrun, and After Burner II in the US SEGA Ages three pack for the Saturn the same as the stand alone JP versions? Does Space Harrier have the bottom glitch in the Japanese Saturn version? Should I get the US SEGA Ages Saturn, or import the Japanese indvidual games?

It's a pity Galaxy Force II Saturn turned out the way it did. Saturn could definatly handle the game at full frame rate.

I own the U.S. Sega Ages that contains ABII, Outrun, Space Harrier.

I also have the individual Japanese Saturn releases of ABII and OutRun
(but not SH). these are the same games that were all put on one disc for the U.S. (and Europe)...however some of the remixed music was cut from the U.S. version since everything is on one CD. some people claim that the individual Japanese Saturn OutRun has less compressed textures than the U.S. version but I've never been able to see this. so yeah, game-wise, they are the same.

Since I don't have the Japnese Saturn Space Harrier, I don't know if the glitch is in the U.S. version but I assume everything was carried over (except some of the remixed tunes).

yes it is a pitty that Saturn GFII turned out the way it did, being that Saturn is hundreds of times (even if only dozens of times) more powerful than the GFII arcade hardware.

Sorry, I should clarify:

By "software" I don't mean pre-drawn sprites. I mean that the developers wrote a software routine that then used the comparatively speedy hardware to rotate the sprites.

To me, "hardware" rotation means there is a piece of hardware dedicated to rotation, ala the SNES. The developers don't need to write their own routines (or even use an existing API), they simply call on the hardware which has all the routines built in.

"Software" rotation to me is still done by the hardware - ie: not using a library of pre-drawn sprites, but actually taking a single sprite and rotating it to then re-render to the screen. But instead of calling the hardware directly, the programmer either writes a software routine or makes an call to an existing software API that then calls the hardware on their behalf.

Multi-purpose CPU + software routine (MegaCD's 12MHz 68K) vs Sinlge-purpose hardware (SNES's dedicated rotation chip). I hope that clarifies what I meant.

Unless of course there is a single, dedicated "rotation" chip inside the MegaCD that I am unaware of, and isn't documented on Wikipedia. Then my theory goes out the window.

And to the comment above about "every magazine back in the day" - I still have my entire 80's collection of both UK and US games magazines. Going back and re-reading them today is a laugh. Those guys were so hopelessly clueless about hardware it wasn't funny. One CV+G magazine I had actually considered "RISC" to be a particular brand of CPU, rather than a generic term for a particular style of instruction handling. Very funny stuff.

Don't take old games mags (or even new ones) as gospel. If you really want to know how game console hardware works, the best places to visit are emulation sites. Read the technical docs on how their emulators work, and you'll get a better understanding of console hardware than ever before. In fact, the whole reason so many emulators exist is because authors were often more interested in learning about how the hardware worked than pirating games. Game playing was merely an accidental side effect of emulation for most projects.

elvis - as I said, there is a dedicated ASIC chip in MegaCD / SegaCD that handles scaling & bi-axial rotation in hardware. that's in addition to the extra 12.5 MHz 68000 in the MegaCD/SegaCD.


http://www.consoledatabase.com/consolei ... index.html

Sega Mega CD/Sega CD Technical Specifications

* Processor: Motorola 68000 running at 12.5 MHz
* CPU: 16-bit CPU (syncs with Genesis 68000 CPU)
* Audio: Stock Genesis audio (16-bit, 8-channel PCM with 8x over-sampling at 32 KHz)
* Enhanced PCM and DAC capabilities
* Graphics: Sega custom ASIC graphics processor (scaling, rotation, zoom, etc.)
* Colour Palettes: 128 colour palette using HAM (Hold And Modify) techniques and 256 colour palette for FMV sequences (CinePak and TruVideo)
* RAM: 768K RAM on-board (added to stock Genesis memory, doubles system memory) and 128K RAM dedicated to CD-ROM, 64K backup RAM
* ROM: 128K
* Connection: Custom sidecar connector (plugs into side of Genesis console)
* CD-ROM drive: ISO-9660 Mode 1 compliant 1X CD-ROM drive (150 Kbytes/sec data transfer rate)
* Media: 500 MB max capacity utilizing standard CD-ROM discs
* CD-ROM compatible with High Sierra, Red Book (CDDA), and CD+G formats

http://www.sega-16.com/Sega%20CD-%20A%2 ... 20Soon.htm

- Sega custom ASIC graphics processor (scaling, rotation, zoom, etc.)

http://www.digitpress.com/faq/megadrive.htm

Graphics processor Custom ASIC chip that could handle scaling and rotation.

http://www.shinforce.com/general/SegaConsoles.htm

It has not only a CD-ROM drive, but an additional 68000 16-bit CPU inside plus the amazing ASIC chip. It is technically a hardware upgrade for the Sega Genesis, but it could only play games specifically made for the Sega CD (as of course its games are on CD). The Sega CD helped introduce things like biaxial rotation, ultra smooth scaling,

http://farm.goodcowfilms.com/games/news ... 0Specs.htm

Hardware Graphic Features:

ASIC chip
Biaxial Rotation
Scaling
Zoom

http://www.eidolons-inn.net/segabase/Se ... egaCD.html

- Sega custom ASIC graphics processor (scaling, rotation, zoom, etc.)

http://www.dcshooters.co.uk/sega/megacd/megacd.php

Development of the Mega CD was top secret. The engineers and programmers of the day were not well informed about what exactly it was they were building. These people were also required to sign a secrecy agreement with Sega about how the system was developed. People programming the first games were told to start programming with very large cartridge concept in mind.

This was probably because at the time the Mega CD was going to be only the second CD ROM on the market. The first company to bring a CDROM console was NEC with the PC Engine which the Mega CD was to directly compete and also bolster the Mega Drive against the Super Nintendo.

At the time the specs of the add-on were pretty impressive. CDROM drives had only just became available to PC owners, an additional Motorola CPU and a dedicated ASIC for sprite trickery and a new sound PCM based sound chip and loads of additional memory. As a result an almost new system was constructed based on the tried and trusted Mega Drive architecture.


Graphcis


Sega Custom ASIC
Hardware Sprite Scaling and Rotation

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... urce&hl=en

In addition to the Motorola 68000 microprocessor, the Sega CD also contains a graphic ASIC to handle zooming, scaling and rotation, enabling users to enjoy high-speed three-dimensional simulation previously available only in arcade games and high-end PCs.

The MegaCD/SegaCD ASIC that provides hardware scaling & rotation is more powerful than the Super Famicom's / Super NES's built-in hardware scaling & rotation (i.e. Mode 7 ).... the only way the Super NES can surpass the scaling & rotation and other effects that the SegaCD does, is with some of the faster additional processors/DSPs that were put into the cartridges.