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 Post subject: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:14 pm 



Joined: 05 Mar 2017
Posts: 296
Location: Woodinville, WA
https://www.neosdstore.com/shop/index.p ... &id_lang=1

Looks pretty interesting. They indicate units are in stock. Anyone know if/when they are shipping?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:47 am 


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I wish I could pay a lower price for a version that just adds CD from SD functionality since my stuff is already RGB modded and I have a Turbo Everdrive, but the save backup to SD is pretty nice too.
Waiting for in-depth compatibility tests with CD games :)


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:20 am 


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Joined: 06 Oct 2015
Posts: 1972
Location: Montréal, Canada
Compared to the Upergrafx 2, this thing:

  • Is $120 cheaper
  • Is apparently shipping (Upergrafx 2 was delayed due to quality issues)
  • Has all the CD system card functionality built-in (Upergrafx requires the original cards)
  • Can act as a flashcart for hucard games too
  • Works on the SuprGrafx

However, this thing doesn't upscale, so you'd need to pair it with an OSSC or Framemeister to get a similar effect in terms of 720p DVI video.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:15 am 


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Location: USA
Here is the launch thread posted on neo-geo.com.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:03 pm 


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Location: Bellevue, Washington, USA
Apparently the payment processing is only a problem for USA buyers. :/
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  • YPbPr->Garo
    • PSP
    • PS2
    • XBox
    • Wii
  • RGB->OSSC & PVM-2530
    • Garo
    • AV Famicom
    • SNES
    • N64
    • GameCube
      • GBI
    • Genesis 2
      • CD
      • 32X
    • Saturn
    • Dreamcast
    • PS1
    • Neo Geo AES
    • SuperGrafx
      • SSDS3
    • CD-I
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      • CPS2
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:17 pm 



Joined: 24 Jun 2015
Posts: 173
Location: Florida
Damn that's cool. Would love to get one eventually.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:24 pm 



Joined: 16 Nov 2013
Posts: 299
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Spanish company, no support paypal payments, definitely a no go for me. Will wait for Deunan's ODE 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:37 pm 


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Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 2988
Location: UK
Ugh you do realise what total nightmare PayPal is for small businesses? Imagine not only having new payments frozen but your entire weeks takings too, with bills piling up and angry customers e-mailing you. Seriously, screw PayPal, I could throw their head office further than I'd trust them, there's a reason less and less small businesses use it.

These guys are offering far better customer service than Deunan and his ODE lottery, I ordered one, I'll let everyone know what I think of it. Hopefully get time to do a full review.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:27 pm 


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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 11268
Location: Germany
can't wait! I just hope the RGB output is up to our current standards. I asked them about the output config, especially wether buffered CSYNC MD2 cables work on it or if composite video for sync is required or if the CSYNC pin requires a cable without the MD's usual buffer (cap/resistor combo).


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:05 pm 



Joined: 05 Mar 2017
Posts: 296
Location: Woodinville, WA
In that Neo Geo forum thread, they mentioned the csync is output as TTL, so you will need the cap + resistor I believe.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:24 pm 


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thanks! TTL on its own would just require a resistor to get the level down. That's not the case on the MD. The implementation on the MD mainboard is missing components (e.g. a cap), so you don't get any picture without it (not just one with an increased signal level, like TTL signals on other systems).


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:48 pm 


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Joined: 14 Nov 2015
Posts: 54
strygo wrote:
In that Neo Geo forum thread, they mentioned the csync is output as TTL, so you will need the cap + resistor I believe.


From Neosd Dev:

"- csync is TTL but can be easily feed to a 75ohm sync inserting a 470ohm resistor in the cart. The sd system 3 has access to the original pce csync, that is 75ohm sync levels, but it's not selected, currently a TTL csync is generated from the h & v sync signals."

Is TTL Csync generated from the H & V a good thing?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:20 pm 


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Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 706
Location: Italy
hyrulebr wrote:
Is TTL Csync generated from the H & V a good thing?

The PCE outputs a slighlty off-spec c-sync - If I remember correctly there's a missing horizontal sync pulse after the vertical blank interval, which can cause bending/skew on the upper part of the picture on some monitors. SamIam made a thread about this sometime ago, and to solve the issue I think he ended up modding his PCE to extract the internal h. and v. sync, as documented by some unkown japanese guy he posted about.

So it is a very good thing :)


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:27 pm 


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Joined: 14 Nov 2015
Posts: 54
Xer Xian wrote:
hyrulebr wrote:
Is TTL Csync generated from the H & V a good thing?

The PCE outputs a slighlty off-spec c-sync - If I remember correctly there's a missing horizontal sync pulse after the vertical blank interval, which can cause bending/skew on the upper part of the picture on some monitors. SamIam made a thread about this sometime ago, and to solve the issue I think he ended up modding his PCE to extract the internal h. and v. sync, as documented by some unkown japanese guy he posted about.

So it is a very good thing :)


Thanks for the info! :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:48 pm 


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Joined: 28 Apr 2017
Posts: 302
Location: Bellevue, Washington, USA
BuckoA51 wrote:
These guys are offering far better customer service than Deunan and his ODE lottery, I ordered one, I'll let everyone know what I think of it. Hopefully get time to do a full review.


Yeah. I’m sure I’ll like the Terraonion version better than Deunan’s based on my experience with a NeoSD and a Rhea.

Plus I assume that it’s basically impossible for a GMT-8 person to own 2 Deunan products.

I’ve been trying to buy this thing for nearly a full day now and hope I don’t miss the batch.
_________________
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  • YPbPr->Garo
    • PSP
    • PS2
    • XBox
    • Wii
  • RGB->OSSC & PVM-2530
    • Garo
    • AV Famicom
    • SNES
    • N64
    • GameCube
      • GBI
    • Genesis 2
      • CD
      • 32X
    • Saturn
    • Dreamcast
    • PS1
    • Neo Geo AES
    • SuperGrafx
      • SSDS3
    • CD-I
    • 3DO
    • Jaguar
    • HAS
      • CPS2
      • STV
      • F3
  • HDMI
    • OSSC
    • WiiU
    • Switch
    • XBox 360
    • PS3
    • PSTV


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:32 pm 


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Joined: 10 Feb 2015
Posts: 37
After owning a Rhea and GDEMU, I will definitely go with the Super SD System 3. That GUI looks glorious, and the features list is like reading a dream come true. 7374 RGB, built-in Arcade Card (and all of the others), CD emulation, HuCard support, and infinite backup ram (gave saves)! The only thing missing is...wait, there's nothing missing.

So it's like turning a PCE into a super-powered RGB-modded Duo+Arcade Card+Turbo EverDrive. I'll use it with my SuperGrafx though :D

Also, about the TTL sync: most of the Genesis 2 RGB cables have a resistor/cap on the sync line already, so if you use one of those cables, it should be perfect 75ohm already, correct? You might just need to remove the RGB line resistors depending on who made the cable.
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Last edited by SmokeMonster on Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:39 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1023
Location: Toronto, Canada
juji82 wrote:
Spanish company, no support paypal payments, definitely a no go for me. Will wait for Deunan's ODE 8)


I'm guessing that you should be able to purchase their items from Stone Age gamer (where you can now purchase their NeoSD solution)

Based on my personal experience with NeoSD, I expect this thing to be mind blowing. Not only does Alex have the best hardware designers in the industry working for him, but also the best team of FPGA developers. This is def. not a homebrew / scene project - this is full scale commercial grade operation. If ROM carts weren't questionable, I wouldn't be surprised to find their products in high-end electronics stores.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:45 pm 


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Posts: 37
One question if anyone knows: could Trurip's CD format eventually be supported (CCD/IMG/SUB)? If not, I'll tweak Project Peacock to better suit the SSDS3.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:01 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 624
I've never owned a TG16. What always put me off from getting one is there's like 200 different variations of it and it's confusing as hell (just a small sampling: TurboGrafx-16, SuperGrafx, Duo, TurboDuo, Super CD, CoreGrafx I and II, LT, Duo R/RX, etc. etc. etc.).

So if I get this card, and a regular NTSC/North America TurboGrafx-16 which looks like the below, I'll be able to play it's COMPLETE library, including all the different CD-Rom variations? If so, I'll probably wait until a bit until they work out any possible kinks but these do sound very cool.

Image



The only thing I'm confused about is the TG16 needs an add-on board to output RGBS from it, right? So is this a CARD that you put into the TG16's 'cartridge' slot, or does it plug into the back and there's a spot on the back of it you can plug your correct RGB cable into it? (there's no pictures of anything like that...)


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:14 pm 


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Joined: 28 Apr 2017
Posts: 302
Location: Bellevue, Washington, USA
USA purchases work again. Gogogogo
_________________
Spoiler: show
  • YPbPr->Garo
    • PSP
    • PS2
    • XBox
    • Wii
  • RGB->OSSC & PVM-2530
    • Garo
    • AV Famicom
    • SNES
    • N64
    • GameCube
      • GBI
    • Genesis 2
      • CD
      • 32X
    • Saturn
    • Dreamcast
    • PS1
    • Neo Geo AES
    • SuperGrafx
      • SSDS3
    • CD-I
    • 3DO
    • Jaguar
    • HAS
      • CPS2
      • STV
      • F3
  • HDMI
    • OSSC
    • WiiU
    • Switch
    • XBox 360
    • PS3
    • PSTV


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:17 pm 


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Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 218
Location: USA
Dochartaigh wrote:
I've never owned a TG16. What always put me off from getting one is there's like 200 different variations of it and it's confusing as hell (just a small sampling: TurboGrafx-16, SuperGrafx, Duo, TurboDuo, Super CD, CoreGrafx I and II, LT, Duo R/RX, etc. etc. etc.).

So if I get this card, and a regular NTSC/North America TurboGrafx-16 which looks like the below, I'll be able to play it's COMPLETE library, including all the different CD-Rom variations? If so, I'll probably wait until a bit until they work out any possible kinks but these do sound very cool.

Image



The only thing I'm confused about is the TG16 needs an add-on board to output RGBS from it, right? So is this a CARD that you put into the TG16's 'cartridge' slot, or does it plug into the back and there's a spot on the back of it you can plug your correct RGB cable into it? (there's no pictures of anything like that...)


There's an expansion port on the back of the TG16 that the super sd system3 plugs into. the super sd system 3 has an RGB output on the back of the unit, which uses the Genesis2/MD2 connector pinout. the ext port on the tg16 is covered by the black piece on the back of the console.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:20 pm 


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Joined: 28 Apr 2017
Posts: 302
Location: Bellevue, Washington, USA
Dochartaigh wrote:
So if I get this card, and a regular NTSC/North America TurboGrafx-16 which looks like the below, I'll be able to play it's COMPLETE library, including all the different CD-Rom variations? If so, I'll probably wait until a bit until they work out any possible kinks but these do sound very cool.

Image



The only thing I'm confused about is the TG16 needs an add-on board to output RGBS from it, right? So is this a CARD that you put into the TG16's 'cartridge' slot, or does it plug into the back and there's a spot on the back of it you can plug your correct RGB cable into it? (there's no pictures of anything like that...)


Nearly the complete library. The supergrafx can play 6 exclusive titles that the rest can’t. And theoretically improves a handful of games. Similar to the N64 ram pack.

All pce/tg16 units need an expansion board or a mod to output rgbs. The duos with the built in cd drive do NOT have the slot to support this or any external rgbs expansion.

This unit eliminates the need for an alternate rgbs solution and fits any unit that has the slot. They claim that they haven’t tested the fit of a tg16. But it’s pin compatible if you have a dremel to fix any problems that come up.

I would choose a pce over the tg16 though because the controllers have different plugs and all the good controllers are for pce.

You can adapt, but just skip that nonsense.
_________________
Spoiler: show
  • YPbPr->Garo
    • PSP
    • PS2
    • XBox
    • Wii
  • RGB->OSSC & PVM-2530
    • Garo
    • AV Famicom
    • SNES
    • N64
    • GameCube
      • GBI
    • Genesis 2
      • CD
      • 32X
    • Saturn
    • Dreamcast
    • PS1
    • Neo Geo AES
    • SuperGrafx
      • SSDS3
    • CD-I
    • 3DO
    • Jaguar
    • HAS
      • CPS2
      • STV
      • F3
  • HDMI
    • OSSC
    • WiiU
    • Switch
    • XBox 360
    • PS3
    • PSTV


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:50 pm 


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Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 653
Ordered one, though I had to setup a bank transfer as it would not accept my type of credit card.

I'll run it through it's paces when it arrives in January, and post results if someone else doesn't first.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:04 am 



Joined: 06 Oct 2016
Posts: 10
I just tried to order and I got a data error, same as yesterday.. Perhaps they hit the cap again? Hopefully this will get sold at SAG. I think I'll just wait awhile before I try to order this. Sometimes getting in ealier is good sometimes it's better to wait. I got in early on Saint's NGPC cart and got it pretty quickly. Now I understand there is a 6 month long wait list, perhaps this is one of those things that'll be better to wait on.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:19 am 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 624
cyborc wrote:
There's an expansion port on the back of the TG16 that the super sd system3 plugs into. the super sd system 3 has an RGB output on the back of the unit, which uses the Genesis2/MD2 connector pinout. the ext port on the tg16 is covered by the black piece on the back of the console.


DirkSwizzler wrote:
Nearly the complete library. The supergrafx can play 6 exclusive titles that the rest can’t. And theoretically improves a handful of games. Similar to the N64 ram pack.


Thanks for the info.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:32 pm 


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Joined: 28 Apr 2017
Posts: 302
Location: Bellevue, Washington, USA
Why the official discussion thread is on neo-geo.com is beyond me. That seems like the best place to gather the worst kind of feedback.
_________________
Spoiler: show
  • YPbPr->Garo
    • PSP
    • PS2
    • XBox
    • Wii
  • RGB->OSSC & PVM-2530
    • Garo
    • AV Famicom
    • SNES
    • N64
    • GameCube
      • GBI
    • Genesis 2
      • CD
      • 32X
    • Saturn
    • Dreamcast
    • PS1
    • Neo Geo AES
    • SuperGrafx
      • SSDS3
    • CD-I
    • 3DO
    • Jaguar
    • HAS
      • CPS2
      • STV
      • F3
  • HDMI
    • OSSC
    • WiiU
    • Switch
    • XBox 360
    • PS3
    • PSTV


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:52 pm 



Joined: 12 Aug 2017
Posts: 269
DirkSwizzler wrote:
Why the official discussion thread is on neo-geo.com is beyond me. That seems like the best place to gather the worst kind of feedback.


I just saw you got banned there for what was a reasonable post by any standards. The reply to your suggestion made little sense. I'm actually a bit concerned now. Why are they just discovering that MD2 cables have resistors in them (duh...) a week before they do final assembly of the boards? Why would they want to ship a 100% resistor/cap free cable with a device that outputs TTL sync instead of one with a resistor to get the video level sync most people need. I agree that it would be so much easier to just use a standard MD2 cable like the dbGraphicsBooster. No single cable is going to make everybody happy. Short/long, shielded/cheaper, composite video/csync, ttl/video level sync etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:04 pm 


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Posts: 302
Location: Bellevue, Washington, USA
I’m still stoked to get it. The NeoSD is really good and I expect the ODE aspect of this will be stellar as well. And don’t mind opening it up to mod the resistors/caps to meet specs.

But yeah. I don’t understand why I was banned either. It sounds like they have a couple more days to make non-PCB design changes. And seeing as how making it fit spec should just be a matter of changing some smd values (I think). So why not jump on the chance to increase compatibility before it becomes an issue in the wild?

Plus, surely it must be cheaper to swap out smd’s Than make a whole cable.
_________________
Spoiler: show
  • YPbPr->Garo
    • PSP
    • PS2
    • XBox
    • Wii
  • RGB->OSSC & PVM-2530
    • Garo
    • AV Famicom
    • SNES
    • N64
    • GameCube
      • GBI
    • Genesis 2
      • CD
      • 32X
    • Saturn
    • Dreamcast
    • PS1
    • Neo Geo AES
    • SuperGrafx
      • SSDS3
    • CD-I
    • 3DO
    • Jaguar
    • HAS
      • CPS2
      • STV
      • F3
  • HDMI
    • OSSC
    • WiiU
    • Switch
    • XBox 360
    • PS3
    • PSTV


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:19 pm 



Joined: 12 Aug 2017
Posts: 269
The Terraonion guys seem pretty amazing, anybody who can ship a working Neo Geo Flashcard and a PCE ODE gets my deepest respect for sure. Maybe they just came fresh of their Neo Geo work and thought all consoles have the coupling caps & resistor in the console? :D

I'd also get a MD2 PACKAPUNCH cable since I need something a little longer and all non-shielded cables I have get some slight audio buzzing depending on video content. I wouldn't trust myself to mess with the Super SD System 3, but I would certainly bridge the resistors on the SCART head to make that cable work with whatever this thing ends up outputting. Thankfully a bunch of people a lot smarter than me bought one from the first batch and they're certainly going to figure out whatever needs to be done, if anything.

I also live in constant fear of plugging the wrong thing into the wrong other thing, so I understand your motivation to just fix the device and keep identical looking cables working identical. I settle for ugly little pieces of gaffer tape hanging from the console ends of my cables for now :(


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:28 pm 


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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 433
Location: Texas, USA
DirkSwizzler wrote:
I’m still stoked to get it. The NeoSD is really good and I expect the ODE aspect of this will be stellar as well. And don’t mind opening it up to mod the resistors/caps to meet specs.

But yeah. I don’t understand why I was banned either. It sounds like they have a couple more days to make non-PCB design changes. And seeing as how making it fit spec should just be a matter of changing some smd values (I think). So why not jump on the chance to increase compatibility before it becomes an issue in the wild?

Plus, surely it must be cheaper to swap out smd’s Than make a whole cable.


It might not be so easy to mod. im sure its doable but im not sure id risk voiding the warranty (if there is one). looking at the pcb, it appears to most likely have 75 ohm resistors and 220uf caps (which look to be installed backwards) on the output. this is going to make it a bit too bright with a passive cable.
Image

see here for post by viletim about the output :
https://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?t ... 1#msg34061

probably best would be to remove the caps and resistors from a genesis cable and add a 15 or 16 ohm resistor in series (with the existing 75 ohm on the board) and a 470 ohm to ground on each line. there is not going to be any pads to add the extra resistor to ground on the board.

but i dont think the RGB output was the main point of this device so probably not as much thought was put into this part. Im most likely just going to use the existing RGB output from my console and just pull audio from the mini din jack on the ODE board if needed. Will have to wait till they give a final answer on how the output is designed.

also as you have learned, the neo geo forums are not the friendliest place. Im sure if i posted this over there, i would get a ban also.


Last edited by mickcris on Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:57 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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