480i on a CRT or upscaled 480p on an LCD/OLED?

[Kez]

I would take 480p over 480i every time. If you can get the signal into a modern TV, in my experience they handle 480p fairly well.

480i-only games is where I find it a bit tougher. 480i looks okay on a CRT, but the flickering does annoy me a little. 480i deinterlaced looks better but you do get the occasional artefact and obviously input delay. I am pretty happy with the OSSC as a solution, for games that need low input delay I use the bob-deinterlacing and otherwise I pass the signal through to my TV to deal with.

I have actually found that I am able to play rhythm games like Donkey Konga, Taiko no Tatsujin and Guitar Hero on my Samsung through the OSSC with no calibration.

[Xer Xian]

You forgot to mention another option Ross, which has a lot of sense - 480p on plasma (shame for the lag)

But yes, low-res 3D games are a pain to deal with. Some upscalers have a de-sharpening feature which can help alleviating the generally raw/crude look of many 6th gen games (I think that is pretty much the sole reason why the DVDO VP50pro is significantly pricier than the non-pro), and now there are even external AA solutions like the mCable. But then you're left (or at least, I'm left) wondering if artificially tweaking the picture like that is worth it over the natural softening/smoothing provided by a CRT (especially a consumer CRT - pro-monitors show interlacing in all its ugliness). I'm considering getting a nice consumer CRT for this reason alone (and well, bigger size than pro-monitors as well).

[Lawfer]

If the game is 480i only, then 480i on a CRT, if the game offer 480p, then 480p on CRT.

LCD/Plasma/Oled are only good for displaying at their native resolutions, like 1080p.

[Hoagtech]

If your looking for a solution for 16:9 games I would reccomend getting an hd CRT if you had the room

I can't speak on behalf of all models but my Sony Bravia felt Lagless despite allegations of being over processed. (I beat all mega mans in a month)

The bloom and the moire seemed to add effects like the arc "flash" of links sword in skyward.

As for 480i only titles. The only way I could enjoy them was by playing with a CRT under 18".

The line trembling seemed more noticeable on a bigger set especially a pro 37".

In all honesty the HD CRT does not get used and is disconnected. It was just too bulky to have all three sets in my man cave. I just play them in 480p either over stretched on my Mitsubishi mega view 37" 4:3 or with bars.

[PogOrion]

I'd take 480i on a PVM over 480p on an LCD/Plasma type display.

[bobrocks95]

These days I'd say for 480p content an OSSC paired with a 480px2 compatible screen would be the best option. Odds are good you'll like either the regular scaling or the upsamplex2 option.

The only console I'd really consider 480i is the PS2. Enough Xbox, Gamecube, and Dreamcast games support 480p or can really easily be forced into a 480p mode with homebrew that they're worth keeping hooked up to a set that supports 480p. The PS2 has enough titles that don't support 480p natively or have problems forcing it that I just keep it hooked up to a CRT. Most of the big titles that supported 480p have been ported to the PS3/4 anyways.

[FinalBaton]

These days I'd say for 480p content an OSSC paired with a 480px2 compatible screen would be the best option. Odds are good you'll like either the regular scaling or the upsamplex2 option.

The only console I'd really consider 480i is the PS2. Enough Xbox, Gamecube, and Dreamcast games support 480p or can really easily be forced into a 480p mode with homebrew that they're worth keeping hooked up to a set that supports 480p. The PS2 has enough titles that don't support 480p natively or have problems forcing it that I just keep it hooked up to a CRT. Most of the big titles that supported 480p have been ported to the PS3/4 anyways.

I like that approach with 480p + 480i. I'd tend to agree with you on this.

[kamiboy]

CRT all the way for me. Displaying sub HD content on a fixed resolution HD display is an exercise in turd polishing, and that is not an undertaking that particularly strikes my fancy.

[Kez]

How does 480i look through the OSSC? Is 480p a noticeable upgrade?

The OSSC does bob-deinterlacing, basically it doubles every line. This causes a flickering effect, not entirely unlike a CRT running 480i. Adding scanlines makes it look even more CRT-like.

I am not personally a fan of the flickering generally, my only CRT is a JVC broadcast monitor and the flicker is quite obvious on that too. So I will usually opt for the TV (i.e. OSSC on passthrough mode) or Framemeister to do the deinterlacing unless the game really needs low latency.

[orange808]

You can also chain 480p output from the console through a scan converter. That will give you direct control over the interlacing process.

[Lawfer]

Just booted up the Wii and played some Resident Evil forced to 480p.

Forced 480p? Resident Evil Wii version support 480p, so there is no "forcing".

Unless you are talking about the GameCube version?

[Lawfer]

Just booted up the Wii and played some Resident Evil forced to 480p.

Forced 480p? Resident Evil Wii version support 480p, so there is no "forcing".

Unless you are talking about the GameCube version?

Yep.

Playing Resident Evil on an LCD is not ideal.

GameCube, Wii, OG Xbox, PS2, PS1, N64, SNES, NES, Megadrive/Genesis, Turbografx/PC Engine and all that are better on a 4:3 CRT.

If not, if you want to play non-HD games on a modern display you will need to invest in getting a big video processor setup to make it look good, like the Framemeister, Crystalio II, Extron RGB OSSC and such and such.

[Lawfer]

It's not stretched to 16:9, my TV was set to 4:3.

Yeah the GameCube version does not have a 16:9 option like the Wii version, but still it won't look good, because if you're TV is a 1080p, there is quite a bit of difference between 480p and 1080p, in contrast playing a 720p game on a 1080p won't look as bad because there is less of a difference between 720p and 1080p than 480p and 1080p.

This is the actual size of a PS1 game:



The bigger your screen resolution, the smaller it will appear (I am on a 1920x1200 monitor and it does look small, so if you are on a 4K screen monitor it will look even smaller than it does on my screen).

[Ikaruga11]

480i on a CRT

[bigbadboaz]

From my own experience, the Wii through component looks a bit shite on my Samsung LCD (I'll admit it's quite an old set, so maybe it'd look a bit better with improved scaling on newer sets)

I've had two flat panels (a plasma and an LCD) on which I thought Wii component looked great. Personal taste aside, this may in fact be an issue with your set's scaling quality. The problem, however, then becomes how soft a relatively low-res image looks on a really big screen. I had no problem with the way the games were being displayed; it just became very clear that the sweet spot for games of this age was the old 4:3, 27-32" zone.

Personally, when these consoles were current I preferred 480i across the board. There is flicker, yes, but this was also the time when progressive scan was getting a lot of hype, and all I ever saw in comparison was a very similar overall image with a lot more jagginess as a tradeoff. I'll take the flicker with the overall smoother image every time. Bonus, you could just hook everything up through S-video and not worry about different connectors or video modes.

[Guspaz]

This is the actual size of a PS1 game:

That's not a PS1 game, that's a Sega Saturn game, and they stretched out the original art assets by 1.25x to match the Saturn's higher screen resolution.

[azmun]

So what do you guys prefer for 480i/480p systems? 480i on a CRT or upscaled 480p on an LCD/OLED? From my own experience, the Wii through component looks a bit shite on my Samsung LCD (I'll admit it's quite an old set, so maybe it'd look a bit better with improved scaling on newer sets), but playing games like NSMBW and Skyward Sword just feels a bit wrong on a 4:3 SD CRT.

I'm not a huge fan of 480i but prefer it on a CRT. Upscaling generally looks uglier and what's worst, introduces lag. Then again many games running on these older consoles had native 480p which means you need not compromise with interlaced video/graphics. Also, not many games run on widescreen which leads to a stretch image or pillar boxes when displayed on modern LCD/LED sets. None of these options appeal to me. For the longest time I thought the best I could get was s-video or RGB (via SCART) on standard definition. Then recently, I got an OSSC and suddenly, that old PC CRT found new life! I never imagined these old games could look so good, seeing them run on 480p for the first time.

I'm not sure I'd call the 6th generation consoles in that "awkward puberty stage." Rather, they were mature in that they took advantage of the limits of the existing (i.e. SD and ED) technology that time. Try playing any modern consoles on SD CRT display and you may see or notice very little difference in graphics quality compared to a DC/PS2/GC/Xbox/Wii.

[Lawfer]

Thing is, no one really has ED TVs.

Not in Europe, no. But apparently it was more common in the US and Japan.

[bobrocks95]

I have a Panasonic ED Plasma. I think what it comes down to is that I wouldn't recommend a separate display for 4-5 consoles (Dreamcast, Gamecube, Wii, Xbox, PSTV). 720p looks great on it as well, but that also looks good on a regular 1080p set- 240p is processed incorrectly and better left to a CRT anyways imo. It being a 2005 digital display it's also pretty laggy and has some plasma-inherent image problems.

I love it but it's far from the right choice for everyone. Again with the OSSC I suspect 480px2 is a better option than a dedicated 480p display. Maybe a much smaller PC CRT would be a better option if you need a dedicated 480p set?

[azmun]

Thing is, no one really has ED TVs.

They didn't take advantage of HD sets which were/are far more common, and go beyond what you can do on a regular 15 kHz CRT. That's why they're in that weird middle area.

How sharp do 480p games look on PC CRTs? Are they more like LCDs or do they add that natural smoothing/anti-aliasing effect that 15 kHz CRTs provide?

Yeah, too bad ED TVs never went mainstream. The closest we got were PC monitors. The PC CRT I use is relatively small (15") and via OSSC, results in games looking incredibly sharp and crisp. I may have overlooked any anti-aliasing effects but perhaps this would also depend on particular software.

[BONKERS]

If you can find a 480p LCD it might be worth giving it a shot. (If it isn't junk with a lot of motion blur).

Lately i've been mulling using my PC CRT for this gen of consoles, both for 480i and 480p games.

For 480i games i've considered emulation in software mode deinterlaced at 480p on a VGA CRT. Or using a BC PS3 with an HDMI to VGA converter.

[Xyga]

Weren't 480p LCDs actually 640x480 TVs of dreadful quality?

[killermike83]

I think ps2 480i on my PVM looks great.