Is pirating really that bad ?!?

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:26 am

GaijinPunch wrote:Should I even bother? Okay, I will. Square Enix makes FFXII. One person buys it, 8 million get copies of that one off the net. Square Enix has made 7800 yen for their 3 billion yen investment. How is that not a loss?

Well, you could look at it this way: If FF12 is anything like FFX with its linear narrow-path gameplay, it'll be well worth one yen. if someone bites the 7800-yen bullet and pays for it, pirating it to 7800 people, then everyone gets their one-yen worth of gameplay for the sacrifice of one person willing to pay for what will probably be a shit game.

Sorry. I really don't like Squenix. ^^;

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:53 pm

Wow, just wow.

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:21 pm

Blade wrote:Wow, just wow.

Amen to that guy.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:42 pm

Well, you could look at it this way: If FF12 is anything like FFX with its linear narrow-path gameplay, it'll be well worth one yen.

The value isn't in question though. Look at all these guys on the net that value their collections at $20-$30,000, when they'd be lucky to sell it piece by piece for $5k.

Wow, just wow.

This guy is a dork. There is no unmoddible console out there (besides the brand new ones). Just modd it at write about something worth while already.

sjewkestheloon · Post by **sjewkestheloon** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:23 am

to add a new slant to the discussion, i have the pal gc ikaruga and the port is a pile of shite. after paying for this i decided to dowload the iso of the dc version and it is infinately superior ( ie it had ALL the frames as opposed to only 5/6s of them...) and i now plan on keeping the gc one but playing my iso on the dc. i've bought the game second hand so the money has already been made by the developer and in the and treasure allowed atari to screw up the game.

technically i'm a bad pirate. personally i think i'm justified.

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:47 pm

sjewkestheloon wrote:to add a new slant to the discussion, i have the pal gc ikaruga and the port is a pile of shite. after paying for this i decided to dowload the iso of the dc version and it is infinately superior ( ie it had ALL the frames as opposed to only 5/6s of them...) and i now plan on keeping the gc one but playing my iso on the dc. i've bought the game second hand so the money has already been made by the developer and in the and treasure allowed atari to screw up the game.

technically i'm a bad pirate. personally i think i'm justified.

IIRC, Treasure ported the game themselves; Atari was merely the publishing company. Much like Cave, Treasure apparently sucks at porting their own games. o_O

jiji · Post by **jiji** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:02 am

Zweihander wrote:Well, you could look at it this way: If FF12 is anything like FFX with its linear narrow-path gameplay, it'll be well worth one yen. if someone bites the 7800-yen bullet and pays for it, pirating it to 7800 people, then everyone gets their one-yen worth of gameplay for the sacrifice of one person willing to pay for what will probably be a shit game.

Aside from all that being beside the point, FFXII is nothing like what you've described. :)

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:41 am

Zweihander wrote:
IIRC, Treasure ported the game themselves; Atari was merely the publishing company. Much like Cave, Treasure apparently sucks at porting their own games. o_O

No, Treasure only ported it to the JPN GC. The USA and PAL localizations were done by the companies that distributed them in those regions (using the source code Treasure made for the JPN GC port), hence the PAL version's crappiness. Treasure is one of the best companies at porting their own games.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:49 am

jiji wrote:
Zweihander wrote:Well, you could look at it this way: If FF12 is anything like FFX with its linear narrow-path gameplay, it'll be well worth one yen. if someone bites the 7800-yen bullet and pays for it, pirating it to 7800 people, then everyone gets their one-yen worth of gameplay for the sacrifice of one person willing to pay for what will probably be a shit game.
Aside from all that being beside the point, FFXII is nothing like what you've described.

but dude dq's grindy goodness is so much better

fl0w · Post by **fl0w** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:19 pm

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid= ... 0&from=rss

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:56 pm

Twiddle wrote:
jiji wrote:
Zweihander wrote:Well, you could look at it this way: If FF12 is anything like FFX with its linear narrow-path gameplay, it'll be well worth one yen. if someone bites the 7800-yen bullet and pays for it, pirating it to 7800 people, then everyone gets their one-yen worth of gameplay for the sacrifice of one person willing to pay for what will probably be a shit game.
Aside from all that being beside the point, FFXII is nothing like what you've described.
but dude dq's grindy goodness is so much better

Unless it has a branching storyline and multiple endings, the most I'll invest in it is one DVD+R, because ultra-linear RPG's hold no lasting value for me.

Here's a quote from 4chan, of all places, which will hopefully shut the yaps of some anti-piracy idealists:

Anonymous wrote: What all you anti-piracy people don't realize is that it puts the power back in our hands, the consumer. Other things, people have to go "how awesome is our product? You'll have to buy to find out!" Gamers are in the unique position to go "Actually, I don't have to buy your product to find out if it's awesome or not, so it better be".

In essence, we have a gun to the heads of developers, and I couldn't be happier.

</THREAD>

KBZ · Post by **KBZ** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:31 pm

I don't really see that as being any kind of power. Why not buy a game, get the whole presentation and return it or sell it if you don't like it?

I personaly don't think convenience is any reason to commit piracy.

that said, this all depends on what values you hold. There's no reason for any of us to ''shut our yaps'' since there's no Universal right or wrong at the end of the day.

there are many reasons to and not to pirate. take your pick, and post your score.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:14 pm

"Actually, I don't have to buy your product to find out if it's awesome or not, so it better be".

No shit. It's called renting.

Ramus · Post by **Ramus** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:26 pm

It's funny how people try to rationalize being a thief. If you copy games because of [insert reason here], then your still a fucking thief. Stop trying to sugar-coat your thievery.

"Yeah, but they gaming industry..." Yeah, fucking shut your damn mouth already. Your a fucking thief; plain and simple.

Valgar · Post by **Valgar** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:54 pm

There are a lot of videos for every game released now, and some companies give out free demos (great idea btw).

Funny coming from Zweihander who said he wants to be a videogame developer. I'll make sure to pirate all of your future titles.

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:17 am

Valgar wrote:There are a lot of videos for every game released now, and some companies give out free demos (great idea btw).

Funny coming from Zweihander who said he wants to be a videogame developer. I'll make sure to pirate all of your future titles.

If I made a bad game, I'd want people to evaluate my games before buying them. If they didn't want to buy them, I'd want feedback, and know to do a better job next time.

Also, rental, for me, is a no-no. Reason 1: what if the game is so horrendous, it's not even worth a rent? Then, you wasted $3 renting a game, plus a couple $'s in gas between the rental place and your home. Reason 2: The rental shops I know of place stickers on the back of their discs. These stickers make the game unplayable on my PS2. If the game even operates, the sound skips all over the place. I have an alibi for not renting. If not because of my opinions on rentworthy-or-non, it's finally my inability to play rental games. :/

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:02 am

OH! I forgot to post my counter for everyone who says to "rent" a game: One does not simply rent IMPORTED GAMES into Mordor!

Ramus · Post by **Ramus** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:05 am

Zweihander wrote:OH! I forgot to post my counter for everyone who says to "rent" a game: One does not simply rent IMPORTED GAMES into Mordor!

Heh heh... thief.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:51 am

Wah, this game is so shitty I'm going to download it and play it. Dumb.

my .02

KBZ · Post by **KBZ** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:14 am

Kingbuzzo wrote: Why not buy a game, get the whole presentation and return it or sell it if you don't like it?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:15 am

Rob wrote:Wah, this game is so shitty I'm going to download it and play it. Dumb.

my .02

Spoken like a genius.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:46 am

Everyone is guilty of piracy, I mean who can honestly say they haven't used or pirated a god damn thing?

As a fan of shmups i've never pirated a shmup or even have the capability (knowledge or equipment).

But I've watched episodes of South park on DVD-r and maybe a few movies, i've even bought the odd bootleg DVD on ebay. I just choose to support companies that make shmups because I think they are worth to me what I am paying.

In retrospect, I expect some people that are fans of South Park will buy the seasonal boxsets at full price and pirate shmups.

If something is deemed not worthy of the price tag to you, you wouldn't buy it anyway. I would say this is much closer to the truth for most people.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:56 am

Zweihander wrote:Also, rental, for me, is a no-no. Reason 1: what if the game is so horrendous, it's not even worth a rent? Then, you wasted $3 renting a game, plus a couple $'s in gas between the rental place and your home. Reason 2: The rental shops I know of place stickers on the back of their discs. These stickers make the game unplayable on my PS2. If the game even operates, the sound skips all over the place. I have an alibi for not renting. If not because of my opinions on rentworthy-or-non, it's finally my inability to play rental games. :/

This is easily one of the stupidest arguments I've read lately. Sounds like some 13 year old from Gamefaqs. Bravo.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:27 am

I have to say that I have downloaded some roms or isos that weren't even worth the electricity spent in hosting them. Therefore saving me from buying such game. (Though it doesn't suck, instead of Soulstar, I'd rather track an used copy of Flashback for Sega CD.)

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:57 am

neorichieb1971 wrote:Everyone is guilty of piracy, I mean who can honestly say they haven't used or pirated a god damn thing?

I steal music like there's no tomorrow. Shh.

Like neorichie I don't have the ability to download modern console games and I'm not sure I would if I could. I'm glad I can't, 'cause it really is unnecessary and in the case of games where 1 completed game is what the "goods" are (Final Fantasy), it is completely wrong to not pay for that legitimately. That's not like trying on a shirt, it's taking the rack home. But every thief has his/her own rules of conduct, I guess.

Music is tough since there's just so much being released and there is no (legitimate) "rental."

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:01 pm

twe wrote:
Zweihander wrote:Also, rental, for me, is a no-no. Reason 1: what if the game is so horrendous, it's not even worth a rent? Then, you wasted $3 renting a game, plus a couple $'s in gas between the rental place and your home. Reason 2: The rental shops I know of place stickers on the back of their discs. These stickers make the game unplayable on my PS2. If the game even operates, the sound skips all over the place. I have an alibi for not renting. If not because of my opinions on rentworthy-or-non, it's finally my inability to play rental games. :/
This is easily one of the stupidest arguments I've read lately. Sounds like some 13 year old from Gamefaqs. Bravo.

Please explain how my PS2's inability to play rental games would count as a "13 year old from Gamefaqs"-style argument. I'd really, really love to hear.

Also note: (yet again) Import games-- and portable games, for that matter-- can not be rented. anywhere.

howmuchkeefe · Post by **howmuchkeefe** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:25 pm

But every thief has his/her own rules of conduct, I guess.

Officially, it's copyright infringement, not larceny. This would make someone who breaks copyright law a copyright infringer, not a thief.

God forbid that it's ever officially considered theft; you might see college students with one too many unauthorized copies of crappy pop songs on their hard drive get put away for ten years for grand larceny, which would be draconian, expensive and short sighted.

I feel that the distinction is important; I feel that the more that copyright infringers are called thieves, the greater the chances are that copyright infringement will someday actually be considered theft from a legal point of view.

Of course, the penalties for copyright infringement could one day be even more severe than those for theft, without copyright infringement ever being considered larceny.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:20 pm

howmuchkeefe wrote:This would make someone who breaks copyright law a copyright infringer, not a thief.

That's not what the DVD warning info-clips have been telling me. "Would you steal a CAR? Would you steal a DVD? DOWNLOADING COPYRIGHTED MOVIES IS THEFT!! *TECHNO*"

KBZ · Post by **KBZ** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:23 pm

Zweihander wrote:Also note: (yet again) Import games-- and portable games, for that matter-- can not be rented. anywhere.

and for the 3rd time this page, there's always the option to buy it, then sell it if you don't want it. Seems to have worked fine for the last forever. And if it's an import like Under Defeat, you'll probably even make a profit.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:52 am

I forgot to mention I erase those roms or Isos that suck. And yeah, I have bought some of the games I have downloaded. Except for the hardest ones to get.