Late realizations

[WelshMegalodon]

not entirely, but i found myself disdainful of most for blatant time-wasting and manipulative design with vapid mechanics. unless they have a really superbly strong presentation (e.g. chrono trigger) or highly addicting and cleverly thoughtful mechanics (e.g. smt3), i'm often hard-pressed to really enjoy them and insulted by the amount of time and busywork they demand.

Some older Western-developed titles might be worth a try. I know Mischief Maker and a few other individuals are avid computer RPG fans.

[FinalBaton]

I love jrpgs, althought I fully realize that they are shallow on gameplay.

It's just a different feeling, a different part of my brain gets stimulated...

I find the grinding soothing. Yep, you've read that right.
There's this comforting, reassuring thought that if I keep grinding, my characters will for sure get stronger. And it's not a guess : it's a rock solid certainty. I can lean on it. hence why it's so reassuring. And it's an excellent way to unwind after a work day.

Of course if the combat is more involving than that's better. But even with combat that's not super deep (like say in FFIV), I still enjoy it. Hell I even love the first FF on NES. I have my limits though, it can't be just about pushing the button and choosing "fight" 100% of the time.

And yes presentation is key, all the jrpgs I love have a look that I find really pleasing. This is a huge criteria for me actually.

I also need the battles to be snappy. And for that reason I'm not a huge fan of FF7(there are other reasons too). I don't mind doing lots of combats, but these combats shouldn't have lenghty passages where no one is attacking, nor spells/summons whose animation last 30 seconds(those should be at most 5-7 seconds long IMO). I hate that, that's just dumb and insulting.

[WelshMegalodon]

While you're hardly alone in feeling that way (a random Internet journalist admitted as much in some crap article defending JRPGs for the wrong reasons, though I can't seem to dig it up), I get the impression that people who play up this aspect of the JRPG grind are missing the point.

Spoiler

[In Dragon Quest]... [S]ave points are rare -- in most games, you only come across them by visiting churches or castles, and you can't save on the overworld map. They never recharge your health either -- you'll need to visit an inn for that. Got a dead party member? You'll still need to head back the church and pay a fee -- items that resurrect fallen players usually aren't found in later in the games, if they exist at all. But as aggravating as these are, they exist for a reason -- namely, they add an element of tension that's missing from most modern RPGs. Yuji Horii has been described as a big gambler; Dragon Quest is filled with casino mini-games, and it's no coincidence that winning a battle feels a lot like winning a jackpot, especially with the slot machine-esque victory noise. Without the crutches of save points, wandering into deep caverns feels more and more like a gamble, as you're slowly getting weaker with each step, becoming drained of health and magic and curative items. Do you call it a day and head back to town to gear up? Or do you hedge your bets and try to make it all the way to the end? In the end, exploring is a lot more involving when death is on the line.

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/ ... _quest.php

Spoiler

The more monsters you encounter [in the original Final Fantasy], the more resources you'll have to expend in order to fend them off and keep your party alive. Your characters don't recover HP on their own, and you have a very limited number of healing items and spells. Final Fantasy is a game about resource management and taking calculated risks both in and outside of battle.

In Final Fantasy XIII, your team is automatically revitalized to full HP and status neutrality after every battle, nullifying the whole "resource management" angle of the game. And without that, there is absolutely no point in fighting the same battle ten times in a row between one cutscene trigger spot and the next.

http://socksmakepeoplesexy.net/index.php?a=ff13

[FinalBaton]

i really don't mind a bit of required grinding, as long as there's not a shit ton of it to do.

Its long spells/summons that irk me...


Regarding Chrono Trigger : a feat that the game pulled off is not only to have that strong presentation; but also to require no grinding at all. Strategies are enough. if a boss gives you a hard time, experiment with different tactics and you will eventually find a way.

[drauch]

My late realization is how much I missed this forum (and to stay way from scary threads that invoke wrath or make my flat brain try to work). Just read through the atheistgod saga, which I missed in its entirety. They grow up so fast.

[kitten]

Some older Western-developed titles might be worth a try. I know Mischief Maker and a few other individuals are avid computer RPG fans.

i tried to clarify jrpg's toward the end of my post ("jrpg fangirl") to specifically indicate where my frame of reference was at the time. i've never gotten into old crpg stuff, but it mostly tends to disinterest me just based on art & theme. i have a light notion of wanting to peer into it at some point in my lifetime, for sure, particularly old dungeon crawlers, but i'm not sure if it will be something i feel i have the patience for in a long time.

i've always wanted hands-on experience and more extensive knowledge of how they influenced japanese game design at the time, too, and the genealogical perspective is probably where my big interest lies. not so much final fantasy or dragon quest, where it's obvious, but stuff like dragon slayer or possibly even druaga - what inspiration did they have? could i feel confident i was tracing specifically meaningful games to their history with some experience?

there's some old japanese crpgs that have some interestingly archaic/weird stuff in them, too. i remember sharc linking me a map of the dungeon of one of them that was comically, cruelly large and sprawling. sometimes, outright piss mean old stuff like that interests me enough to want to try my hand at it (i'm a bit of a druaga fan despite finding it wretchedly hateful in its design, to help elucidate). i think i'd need a friend similarly interested in digging this stuff to really get into it, too.

[FinalBaton]

I also think I'll give a crack to an older Ultima and Wizardry game or two, at some point. Just for the gaming history aspect (I'm not so sure that I'll be enjoying them but I'm fairly certain I want to explore them anyway).

One invaluable RPG experience I do have though, and that obviously influenced all those videogames, is many years of playing Dungeons & Dragons (the tabletop game). Now those were awesome times and I'm very glad I have those memories.

Speaking about it makes me realize that I miss it. Thankfully some buddies and I have decided to start a new campaign, so soon we'll get together around a table and participate into an awesome tale of knights, magic and creatures, just like in the old times.

[Stevens]

I also think I'll give a crack to an older Ultima and Wizardry game or two, at some point. Just for the gaming history aspect (I'm not so sure that I'll be enjoying them but I'm fairly certain I want to explore them anyway).

One invaluable RPG experience I do have though, and that obviously influenced all those videogames, is many years of playing Dungeons & Dragons (the tabletop game). Now those were awesome times and I'm very glad I have those memories.

Speaking about it makes me realize that I miss it. Thankfully some buddies and I have decided to start a new campaign, so soon we'll get together around a table and participate into an awesome tale of knights, magic and creatures, just like in the old times.

Growing up a buddy always had some sort of Amiga. I would watch him play Ultima. IV is pretty highly regarded as I understand it, but if memory serves me correctly they're all connected.

I never played DnD but I am particularly fond of Zombicide: Black Plague. It is essentially an rpg light bored game with 10 different campaigns that as you play through them will tell the complete story. It isn't easy by any stretch but it is a lot of fun. It says for up to six, but we like to play with less just in case someone dies. Probably its only downside is the exclusion upon death.

Since you like DnD time shouldn't be an issue:D

https://www.google.com/search?q=zombici ... ve&ssui=on

My late realization is that after a several year hiatus from Super Turbo I have to relearn several of the match ups. Nothing hitting the books won't cure.

[FinalBaton]

Growing up a buddy always had some sort of Amiga. I would watch him play Ultima. IV is pretty highly regarded as I understand it, but if memory serves me correctly they're all connected.

I never played DnD but I am particularly fond of Zombicide: Black Plague. It is essentially an rpg light bored game with 10 different campaigns that as you play through them will tell the complete story. It isn't easy by any stretch but it is a lot of fun. It says for up to six, but we like to play with less just in case someone dies. Probably its only downside is the exclusion upon death.

Since you like DnD time shouldn't be an issue:D

https://www.google.com/search?q=zombici ... ve&ssui=on

My late realization is that after a several year hiatus from Super Turbo I have to relearn several of the match ups. Nothing hitting the books won't cure.

Thanks for the recco on IV, I'll try it. To be honest I'm already a fan of how that game looks and can sound on the DOS platform. I've seen a lot of little snippets of it on vids from The 8-Bit guy on youtube, whenever he does episodes on soundcards or graphics modes. Now that I know the game is worth my time, I'll definitely give it a go.

I don't know that Zombiecide board game, looks interesting. I've played the classic HeroQuest, as well as a recent one which stars mice as heroes(and is pretty dang in-depth, with it's skills system)but I fail to remember it's name. Speaking of D&D, I made the exercise yeasterday of finding monsters from Final Fantasy on NES that were lifted straight from the D&D bestiary, of the top of my head, and the amount was staggering.

Aw man, gotta love ST! haven't played in 6 months or so, I need to play a little bit each day for the upcoming week so that I can shake off the rust and play on FightCade

[WelshMegalodon]

Just a heads up, playing the Master System conversion will save you the trouble of eyeballing the clock speed in DOSBox or setting up a hard drive in PCem. Altirra and WinVICE will play the Atari 8-bit and C64 versions, respectively (assuming you can acquire clean disk images, which is easier said than done), but with those you'll experience frequent disk swapping and some severe loading times. It's also important to note that the Master System and C64 ports are the only ones of these with music (the former even has FM support!), though there does exist a patch for the MS-DOS release, and... oh, PC gaming.

Since you already have a D&D background, you'll probably find more enjoyment in one of the Gold Box games. You've got the Pool of Radiance and Gateway to the Savage Frontier series for the Forgotten Realms and Champions of Krynn and sequels for Dragonlance. IBM PC versions are preferred, of course:

Spoiler

Ah yes, memories of playing Pool of Radiance on my C-64 just came flooding back to me. I loved that game in the summer of 1989; between PoR, Bard's Tale III, and Wasteland, I didn't see much sun that summer.

Returning to New Phlan... Please insert side 5... (disk drive chugs for a minute) Please insert side 7... (more chugging) Please insert side 3... (more chugging). Okay, I'm back in the old town section, take two steps..."Hobgoblins charge screaming!" Please insert side 8... (chug, chug, chug).

Damn we were patient in those days. I would go insane having to endure that now.

http://rpgcodex.com/forums/index.php?th ... ost-557268

[FinalBaton]

Yes I'd like to try an SSI goldbox game too indeed. Thanks for the heads up re: Ultima IV Welsh!

[BIL]

Just read through the atheistgod saga, which I missed in its entirety. They grow up so fast.

Yeah, ag99 really kept the sperg flag flying right to the bitter end. Finally shot down in flames by bloodf himself.

...TBH I'm still harbouring slight suspicions he was bloodf's alt all along. He certainly tested the charitable spirit of the community, which (though I say so myself) I believe came through admirably.

GET A JOB YOU FUCKIN BUM

I FUCKING TRIED

[WelshMegalodon]

i've always wanted hands-on experience and more extensive knowledge of how they influenced japanese game design at the time, too, and the genealogical perspective is probably where my big interest lies. not so much final fantasy or dragon quest, where it's obvious, but stuff like dragon slayer or possibly even druaga - what inspiration did they have? could i feel confident i was tracing specifically meaningful games to their history with some experience?

The genealogical perspective is really what I've perceived as lacking in large areas of the English-speaking web, if only because people often seem frustratingly quick to limit the scope of any gaming discussion to console gaming, creating the illusion that the "retro" days were forced by 'technical limitations' to remain grounded in its arcade roots. It's sort of inevitable here given the arcade- and console-centric nature of the site, but the rest of the Internet has no excuse, especially in now that the influence of the early 80s microcomputer scene is more visible than ever.

You obviously come across as being far more versed in titles from that time period, but while reading your comment above I couldn't help but be reminded of people who only know of console RPGs from the olden days and thus act like turn-based combat is a by-product of aforementioned 'limitations' and/or qualifies as a 'vapid mechanic'. They might also see nonlinearity in the genre as an innovation, or something...

Unfortunately, the situation in which you've expressed interest is probably the least documented on the English-speaking Web, thanks to the language barrier and the aforementioned console-centric mindset. (The real console peasants are the ones that don't look beyond console gaming and spout lies like "games didn't let you save back in the day" or "developers made games hard because they couldn't make them bigger"). The only online efforts I've ever even come across to document the early Japanese home computer scene are from HG101 and Mr. Felipe Pepe. I suspect that the OLD GAMERS HISTORY books mentioned by the latter hold answers, but alas, my Japanese is limited to GENKI I.

Speaking of HG101, I think I may know the dungeon you're talking about. Is it this one?

P. S.: You have giant Yacopu as your avatar now instead of the regular one you used back in March. I wasn't even aware such a form existed until I saw your video.

[kitten]

creating the illusion that the "retro" days were forced by 'technical limitations' to remain grounded in its arcade roots.

this is a very common perspective that i feel is used to diminish all genres. particularly irritating to me is when people suggest that things like limited continues or high difficulty were used to imitate arcades and extend rentals or prevent games being turned back in. often times, those kinds of things were guidelines on how the game was meant to be played. drives me nuts that they're seen as "gating content" when the very content of the game is in its challenge & how that is applied. i could go on for hours about what a meaningless word 'content' has become. it's very frustrating to unravel the perceptions people are beginning to popularly have about classic gaming.

You obviously come across as being far more versed in titles from that time period, but while reading your comment above I couldn't help but be reminded of people who only know of console RPGs from the olden days and thus act like turn-based combat is a by-product of aforementioned 'limitations' and/or qualifies as a 'vapid mechanic'. They might also see nonlinearity in the genre as an innovation, or something...

a considerable amount of those schools of design both older and newer becomes very basic number-crunching and ends up feeling inexorably tedious, to me. conflicts are easily gotten out of by leveling up or understanding basic elemental strengths/weaknesses or just checking the shop each village to make sure you're stocked on the next tier of gear. even tabletop games i've participated in (via pathfinder) have felt like this, and i feel like that kind of design has become ubiquitous across all manners of rpg (wasn't the latest edition of D&D widely criticized for feeling like WoW?).

one reason i want to eventually explore older titles and get outside of my scope is because really old crpg stuff seemed to be coming up with interesting ideas and concepts before the mold became particularly shaped. from what i hear, a lot of it is based on earlier editions of D&D, which longtime tabletop fans seem to espouse as being wildly creative & interesting. that, and like you said, they're often kept out of what is essentially becoming the Gamer's Canon for how these types of design evolved. i'm very willing to have my perspective fleshed out, in time, and acknowledge my experience in this genre as limited to playing mostly console stuff and reading about adjacent things.

The only online efforts I've ever even come across to document the early Japanese home computer scene are from HG101 and Mr. Felipe Pepe. I suspect that the OLD GAMERS HISTORY books mentioned by the latter hold answers, but alas, my Japanese is limited to GENKI I.

it's very unfortunate! i feel there is a lot of valuable history being lost in the lack of interest in stuff like this. despite my only vague interest in the stuff, it's real upsetting to consider both for others and the future self that might become heavily invested in this avenue.

Speaking of HG101, I think I may know the dungeon you're talking about. Is it this one?

i remember the image being a different one, but that's quite possible that's it.

P. S.: You have giant Yacopu as your avatar now instead of the regular one you used back in March. I wasn't even aware such a form existed until I saw your video.

i used giant yacopu back when i joined, too, but it wasn't animated. decided upon my return to make an animated version of the sprite. i believe the right foot forward was the frame i used in my icon. though it's not obvious that it's a form in the game, you do also see it on the title screen.

[FinalBaton]

Gonna take this opportunity(since it likely won't present itself again) to recommend people curious in tabletop D&D to go with Advanced 2nd edition.

It's a classic for a reason. It's got everything you need without too much stuff to worry about, and puts all the focus on the DM's ability to create compelling storytelling. It's amazingly well-balanced : easy to understand and get into, yet deep enough with customization if you want it too.

There's plenty of more advanced little things that are optional and identified as such, so first time readers will know not to incorporate them. But they are there for more advanced player if they feel like toying with them (like sub-classes("Schools") of Wizards and Clerics, choosing everyday-abilities for your characters, etc).

Very first edition is great too, but it's a bit too simplistic for my tastes (although I have played it for a good two years and it was perfectly fine. Actually it'd be a very good pick for first-timers since it's so bare-bones. Maybe start with that one and then move on to Advanced 2nd Edition once you get super familiar).
Second edition adds a couple classic classes, some very handy rule sets for the players' chances at spotting incoming danger, random treasure tables by enemy level and so forth.

Just get these two plus a bestiary, some dices, some buddies, some brew and GAME THE FUCK ON

[Stevens]

Aw man, gotta love ST! haven't played in 6 months or so, I need to play a little bit each day for the upcoming week so that I can shake off the rust and play on FightCade

Truth be told ST is going far better for me than 3rd Strike. I've run into the occasional wall (Honda *cough*), but for the most part its been win some lose some. Haven't run into any assholes yet, but it is my understanding that FC has its fair share of sore losers.

[Squire Grooktook]

JRPG's are a genre where I love the greatest examples with all my heart but hate most of the rest. Trails in the Sky is probably one of my favorite gaming experiences of all time, purely for its incredible character development. Probably the best written game in the medium.

-

Table Top Rpg's are wonderful as well. And my experience with the grimdark (but secretly idealistic) Japanese Biopunk Horror RPG NECHRONICA has also joined my greatest gaming experiences ever as well.

TRPG's are nothing like anything else. Group story-telling efforts with game mechanics. There's absolutely no approximation for them in the world of video games or anywhere else, because there's no other way of achieving and experiencing that free-flowing group story. I highly recommend everyone to give them a try.

The main hurdle for table top is time and finding the right group. These are games that take 5 hours hours to play per session, so you need to be able to find a time that consistently works for everyone in the group. The other hurdle is the group. You need a gm and player group with genuine creativity and a passion for storytelling and imagination.

Table Top RPG's are alongside STG and Fighters in my mind as being the most effort intensive form of gaming that exists. They give me a similar feeling of being "on-stage" where I'm trying to push my writing and storytelling skills to their limit, and constantly improve upon myself.

[Sumez]

I share the itch to delve into classic old school computer RPGs, not so much as a historian, but due to a genuine curiosity about what captivated people about them at the time. I feel like it's a genre where it's very easy to say that it "hasn't aged well", but I was never a fan of that term, and surely something that was interesting to play at the time, must have something to offer even today. I don't want to see these games disappear into video game history as "the precursor to Final Fantasy".

I did try a few of the Ultima games back in the mid 90s when they were already considered archaic, but before my big foray into JRPGs, and at the time it was completely impossible for me to wrap my head around what I was even supposed to do, or what anything was. The impossible-to-decipher graphics, the complex interface, and the myriads of text and various information that may or may not be important, it's just something that doesn't click with me when I want to play a game and have fun with it. And this isn't something that's related to the game being old or "limited". You see stuff like that in new games, like World of Warcraft and the hundreds of games like it. I just don't feel like playing a spreadsheet.

But I've opened up a bit more to RPGs in general and to more archaic forms of game design since then, so I might give it another try. I'm much more eager to try out some of the old dungeons crawlers though. In particular Wizardry, and maybe some of the old Might & Magic games. The idea of being stuck in a bleak and confusing maze where everything is out to kill me is appealing to me. Building a party, strategizing, retreating to the town, and keeping my map up to date. It's a journey, but I want to take it some time.

[Vanguard]

one reason i want to eventually explore older titles and get outside of my scope is because really old crpg stuff seemed to be coming up with interesting ideas and concepts before the mold became particularly shaped. from what i hear, a lot of it is based on earlier editions of D&D, which longtime tabletop fans seem to espouse as being wildly creative & interesting. that, and like you said, they're often kept out of what is essentially becoming the Gamer's Canon for how these types of design evolved. i'm very willing to have my perspective fleshed out, in time, and acknowledge my experience in this genre as limited to playing mostly console stuff and reading about adjacent things.

I share the itch to delve into classic old school computer RPGs, not so much as a historian, but due to a genuine curiosity about what captivated people about them at the time. I feel like it's a genre where it's very easy to say that it "hasn't aged well", but I was never a fan of that term, and surely something that was interesting to play at the time, must have something to offer even today. I don't want to see these games disappear into video game history as "the precursor to Final Fantasy".

Most CRPGs really aren't worth playing, and are as bad as JRPGs in that everything is about doing tedious repetitive tasks until your inevitable victory. They tend to be a bit more open and complex but with just as little depth.

Like, Ultima IV is conceptually cool in that it pays attention to nearly everything you do, and all of it has a gameplay consequence of some kind. But by and large that doesn't translate into good gameplay. You're supposed to be valorous, so don't run away from any of the tedious random encounters. You're supposed to be generous, so first buy a full inventory of every item from the blind shopkeeper for 1 gp, but then buy her least expensive item and overpay by 1 gp to make up for it. There are good intentions and genuine passion behind it, but the execution is not there.

My favorite conventional CRPGs are both Interplay titles, Dragon Wars and Wasteland. Dragon Wars is essentially the fourth Bard's Tale game, but it's vastly superior to he real BT games. Combat is genuinely interesting due to high danger and strong elements of resource management and attrition. It's very good at providing problems with multiple solutions and outcomes, which is the strongest aspect of CRPGs. My favorite example is that the player can join an army at war, and among the possible outcomes you can: open the gates to the enemy city, securing your side's victory, assassinate the enemy leaders yourself, again, winning the war for your side, or defect to the enemy and defeat the invading army. Wasteland is a similar story, I don't think its combat is quite as nice (just select "full auto" with your AK 47s every round) but it does have a cool world to explore with lots of opportunities use your party member's specializations to succeed/fail in a number of interesting scenarios. Wasteland is actually the predecessor to the Fallout series. Fallout was created because EA owned the rights to Wasteland. Anyway, I think Wasteland is overall better than its successor, being more varied and far less buggy. Be aware that both games have very complex character building systems, and it would be a good idea to find out which skills are worth investing in before starting.

With that said though, the pinnacle of CRPGs (turn-base RPGs in general, really) are roguelikes. I consider them the closest thing there is to arcade RPGs, with generally short durations, strict save systems, and a huge emphasis on mastery. I'd recommend Brogue and Shiren the Wanderer as solid introductions to the genre. For Shiren, I consider the fan-translated SFC version slightly preferable to the DS version, but both are good. Don't use the item warehouse! If you want something more CRPGish, ADOM is another standout title.

[Sumez]

Wow, moving into Shiren is seriously off-topic, but then again, this entire discussion was absurdly off-topic to begin with.
Anyway, I need to ask:

Don't use the item warehouse!

Why?
Never played the SFC version, as it's only in Japanese, but I tried out the DS version for a while, and didn't like it.

[Mischief Maker]

Puzzle Quest, which I've owned on PC for years, had an expansion pack for Xbox live that never made it to PC.

Well I just found out that community members extracted the assets of the Xbox version and created a near-perfect PC version of the expansion for free.

[Ruldra]

Gonna take this opportunity (since it likely won't present itself again) to recommend people curious in tabletop D&D to go with Advanced 2nd edition.

I still own the player's handbook. Back in the day I didn't have people to play with but I'd still buy the books and read them cover to cover. Somehow I found extremely enjoyable just reading about character creation, classes, alignments, weapons and spell descriptions. Eventually all that knowledge became useful when I played the Baldur's Gate games.

Anyway, Advanced 2nd Edition has one huge flaw: the THAC0 system. Talk about an awful way to check if you managed to hit your target or not. And it's something you need to use all the time. It's so bad I'd advise newcomers to stay away from it, 3rd edition is a lot more beginner-friendly. It's the system used in Neverwinter Nights.

Wow, moving into Shiren is seriously off-topic, but then again, this entire discussion was absurdly off-topic to begin with.
Anyway, I need to ask:

Don't use the item warehouse!

Why?
Never played the SFC version, as it's only in Japanese, but I tried out the DS version for a while, and didn't like it.

Warehouse lets you save items for future playthroughs. You could spend several playthroughs storing important items in there and then use them all from the start in one game for an easy win (although you can still easily lose if you don't have the proper survival skills). Not using warehouse is like ironman mode. I'd recommend playing like that, makes the game way more fun.

A few years ago I went on a roguelike binge. Played several titles and Shiren easily was my favorite of the ones I played. Try giving it another shot, it's a quality game.

[FinalBaton]

Anyway, Advanced 2nd Edition has one huge flaw: the THAC0 system.

That's so weird, I have never thought even for a second that the THAC0 system was bad. to me it's very logical and easy to grasp. That creature has an armor class of 4? well look what your THAC0 is, and you're gonna need 4 lower than that.

Oh well

[Vanguard]

Wow, moving into Shiren is seriously off-topic, but then again, this entire discussion was absurdly off-topic to begin with.

I know Shiren isn't a CRPG, but I can't talk about CRPGs without talking about roguelikes, and I can't talk about roguelikes without mentioning Shiren! Anyway, the item warehouse mechanic lets you keep items from one playthrough to use in the next. Eventually you can store up such an overwhelming supply that enemies can't realistically win against you. It's essentially the game's equivalent to credit feeding, and the balance was clearly built around not using the warehouse. There's even an NPC who challenges you to try clearing the game without it.

Anyway the differences between the SFC and DS versions are relatively minor. If you don't like one you won't like the other.

[BrianC]

Joan Crawford, Greta Garbo, Jackie Coogan, and Gary Cooper were all in silent movies.

Charlie Chaplin is better known for silent movies (which are awesome), but is also hilarious in talkie movies.

[BIL]

Jon Venables is back in the slammer, again, for possession of child porn, again. Second time in less than a decade. In the interim he's apparently been looking up single mothers on dating sites. Sensing a pattern here.

Fucking hell, this is getting a bit dark even for my liking! I am all for second chances, but if they're gonna keep slapping him on the wrist, I prefer he receive infallible treatment method before another two year-old's anus is torn apart. Posted in late thread because the authorities were mysteriously not very forthcoming with the information.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Joan Crawford, Greta Garbo, Jackie Coogan, and Gary Cooper were all in silent movies.

Charlie Chaplin is better known for silent movies (which are awesome), but is also hilarious in talkie movies.

From what I gather, many silent movie era stars had a hard time redefinig themselves when talkies hit. Such as Louise Brooks. Much like stage actors before had yet to find out that the screen requires different acting than the stage. Wasn't Asta Nielsen one of the first to "get it"?
As for Charlie, I admire The Great Dictator, but his voice acting sucks in there, sadly.

Accidentally, I was reading a book about history of western movie today and yep, Gary Cooper is mentioned on the 7th page.

My late realization is how much I missed this forum (and to stay way from scary threads that invoke wrath or make my flat brain try to work).

MAYN! Do you need to try watching Tuareg - Il guerriero del deserto movie a.s.a.p. (assuming you haven't already).

[drauch]

Ya know, I watched Tuareg back in like 2007 and wasn't that big of a fan tbh. It's got a great score and some standout scenes, but I found it to be lesser Castellari. I really loved throwing gas cans and then shooting them, though. That always stuck in my head. It's just hard to compare when I know he's capable of stuff like Escape From the Bronx, The Big Racket, Keoma, etc.

[soprano1]

I just discovered Tom Waits's music work (and loving it), and realized he played Renfield in Coppola's Dracula.

[BIL]

I only just twigged why there's suicide prevention hotline notices scattered like Easter eggs all over my local station. Duh. Wandered down the rather lonely and out-of-sight furthest end of the Liverpool line on this grey winter's afternoon for a SNEAKY PARP* and found myself reading one last entreaty not to empty a 12-inch into my mouth. You'd really have to have some reason to be all the way down there, I guess. >_>

*work toilet is fucking inhuman >_< the sort of place you feel like you're gonna catch the HIV cough - if not discover an HIV MOTH