OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[Elrinth]

I went to local tvshoppe and tried LG 65SJ850V.
It displays OSSC SNES with 1x,2x,3x,4x,5x1080p juuuuust fine. Changing between resolutions was pretty fast aswell, maybe 2 sec max.
Also according to guy in store only 14ms lag. anyone from europe have better model with lower lag and still able to run ossc?

thinking about buying one.

[FBX]

I didn't see any info on the PS2 sweet spot for 2x 480i optimal timing H.samplerate, so I spent a couple hours trying to find it. I didn't have any luck, so I realized I needed a frame of reference, and that was to find out online what the native resolution of Final Fantasy X was, and then base the H.samplerate for 2x mode on that. Googling came up with 512x448i, so I used that as my frame of reference for the in-game graphics feed from the OCCS. It work perfectly, and the final value for H.samplerate ended up being 686.

Screeenshot for proof of 686 value:

[jayde6]

I didn't see any info on the PS2 sweet spot for 2x 480i optimal timing H.samplerate, so I spent a couple hours trying to find it. I didn't have any luck, so I realized I needed a frame of reference, and that was to find out online what the native resolution of Final Fantasy X was, and then base the H.samplerate for 2x mode on that. Googling came up with 512x448i, so I used that as my frame of reference for the in-game graphics feed from the OCCS. It work perfectly, and the final value for H.samplerate ended up being 686.

Screeenshot for proof of 686 value:

Thanks for the info on this, that screenshot looks real good.
Is that with keeping the active h/v default?
Also does this only work with 480ix2?
I've been struggling to get ps2 looking good with my setup, I don't like how quick my tv gets image retention and my receiver doesn't display anything with the default sample rate for passthrough.

[Galdelico]

I didn't see any info on the PS2 sweet spot for 2x 480i optimal timing H.samplerate, so I spent a couple hours trying to find it. I didn't have any luck, so I realized I needed a frame of reference, and that was to find out online what the native resolution of Final Fantasy X was, and then base the H.samplerate for 2x mode on that. Googling came up with 512x448i, so I used that as my frame of reference for the in-game graphics feed from the OCCS. It work perfectly, and the final value for H.samplerate ended up being 686.

I'm sure it will all be clear once your tutorial is out, but still, if you don't mind me asking:
1) what 480i mode is your screenshot inteded to be related to? Bob or Passthrough?
2) assuming you'll cover the original PlayStation too, will it be the same to follow your guidelines if I'm using a PS2 in bw compatibility mode, instead of an actual PS?
3) any chance you're ever going to tackle PAL consoles too (to cover up PAL50 settings and also PAL60, in case they may differ from NTSC 60zh)?

Thanks in advance. ^_-

[FBX]

1) what 480i mode is your screenshot inteded to be related to? Bob or Passthrough?
2) assuming you'll cover the original PlayStation too, will it be the same to follow your guidelines if I'm using a PS2 in bw compatibility mode, instead of an actual PS?
3) any chance you're ever going to tackle PAL consoles too (to cover up PAL50 settings and also PAL60, in case they may differ from NTSC 60zh)?

1) I set 480i to passthrough, and then I resized the vertical height on the screen dump using nearest neighbor interpolation to 960. On still images like the status screen I showed, this has the effect of making it look progressive. The Vision E1s window is set to "weave" by default, and I have it also set to 960 vertical. I can actually record footage with it set that way, and it looks pretty good. On the finalized screenshot, I cropped the black borders off, but I could just as easily set the OSSC's active vertical to 224 in order to match FFX's live graphics (V backporch would have to be aligned as well). In which case, I would set the Vision window to 896 instead of 960 vertical. Edit: Had a look at active vertical and it appears FFX only uses 416i. I went ahead and edited the profile I made to match this on the live output window.

2) PS1 mode on PS2 uses the same 'specs' for video dimensions as far as I'm aware, so timings should be the same. I'll find out as I work on that later today.

3) Not likely. It would mean spending quite a lot of money getting all the PAL hardware needed, and I have to devote all my resources into keeping up with NTSC as it is.

[Galdelico]

1) I set 480i to passthrough, and then I resized the vertical height on the screen dump using nearest neighbor interpolation to 960. On still images like the status screen I showed, this has the effect of making it look progressive. The Vision E1s window is set to "weave" by default, and I have it also set to 960 vertical. I can actually record footage with it set that way, and it looks pretty good. On the finalized screenshot, I cropped the black borders off, but I could just as easily set the OSSC's active vertical to 224 in order to match FFX's live graphics (V backporch would have to be aligned as well). In which case, I would set the Vision window to 896 instead of 960 vertical. Edit: Had a look at active vertical and it appears FFX only uses 416i. I went ahead and edited the profile I made to match this on the live output window.

Seems like a different scenario from the one I'm stuck to, unfortunately, as my PC monitors - I guess due to their very limited/lack of deinterlacing capabilities - don't really handle 480i passthrough well. In spite of setting the screen ratio to 4:3, the image gets automatically squashed to fill almost the entire screen, and it looks way softer than it should. Line 4x (bob) looks the best - on still images, of course - and it's still pretty sharp and overall decent, at a normal viewing distance. I should note that I don't own any other video processor, to chain in between my display and the OSSC, so I can only work with what the two devices provide, in terms of settings.

I figured it was the case with PAL machines, thanks anyways!

[FBX]

Update:

I think I jumped the gun on the H.samplerate. While 686 is confirmed correct for FFX, it seems this only align for 512 horizontal mode. The PS2's menu and memory card browser seems to fall under a 640x224 res mode, which doesn't match the H.samplerate of 686. The default value of 858 might be correct for this mode.

So what I need to find out now are what res modes the PS2 actually has in total. Optimal timings would need to be made for each mode. Ugh!

[クリスチャン]

Just got my OSSC and mainly using it for Dreamcast.

This thing works great. Set horizontal active area to 640 pixels, adjusted h/v backporch a little, adjusted phase to 90°, and set sampling to DTV 480p (720x480); Works perfect on my Sony X900E. This TV seems to accept almost any signal from HDMI including line doubled 480p (1440x960p) as long as it doesn't go over HDMI bandwidth limits.

Another interesting thing that I haven't fully tested is that line doubled 480p (1440x960p) from the Dreamcast without any adjustments (just DTV sampling) seems to produce a proper 4:3 aspect ratio. Not 100% sure because I haven't measured it and I prefer the TV to upscale 480p but it looks really good.

Only weird thing I've noticed is that the GD-USB menu seems to use a slightly different video output than games because my h/v backporch settings cause the picture to be slightly shifted and cut off by a few pixels.

[クリスチャン]

Update:

I think I jumped the gun on the H.samplerate. While 686 is confirmed correct for FFX, it seems this only align for 512 horizontal mode. The PS2's menu and memory card browser seems to fall under a 640x224 res mode, which doesn't match the H.samplerate of 686. The default value of 858 might be correct for this mode.

So what I need to find out now are what res modes the PS2 actually has in total. Optimal timings would need to be made for each mode. Ugh!

You can use PCSX2 with your games and see exactly what resolution they are running at. Could've sworn the PS2 menu ran at a higher res than that.

I also thought the PS2 outputted 720x480p regardless of the rendering resolution (except 240p games)?

[Sega90s]

Just got one of these yesterday and , so far I’m very impressed with the picture. I’ve tested it on a Panasonic plasma TC-P42S30 and can confirm it works in line 2x with an nes ,snes , genesis and Dreamcast. No other line modes 3x,4x or 5x work. The color compared to the frameister is much richer, and very little if any noise is visible in solid colors. The most surprising thing is when I tried it on my cheap insignia NS-50D510NA17 , line modes 2x,3x ,4x and passthru all work. When passthru(1x) is used it even recognized it at 720x240 not 480i.

[FBX]

You can use PCSX2 with your games and see exactly what resolution they are running at. Could've sworn the PS2 menu ran at a higher res than that.

I also thought the PS2 outputted 720x480p regardless of the rendering resolution (except 240p games)?

Already tried PCSX2 and could not see a way to force native res. It always forces a scaled 4:3 aspect ratio. This was evidenced by when I ran FFX on it and it even forced that to a 640 res, even though it actually runs at 512 res.

An no, apparently the way OSSC behaves entirely differently on FFX, this means the PS2 does not run everything in 720. It has distinct modes like the Sega Genesis does. A machine that does run everything at the same native res is the Neo Geo, and the OSSC reacts accordingly by allowing the same H.samplerate to work for every game.

[クリスチャン]

You can use PCSX2 with your games and see exactly what resolution they are running at. Could've sworn the PS2 menu ran at a higher res than that.

I also thought the PS2 outputted 720x480p regardless of the rendering resolution (except 240p games)?

Already tried PCSX2 and could not see a way to force native res. It always forces a scaled 4:3 aspect ratio. This was evidenced by when I ran FFX on it and it even forced that to a 640 res, even though it actually runs at 512 res.

An no, apparently the way OSSC behaves entirely differently on FFX, this means the PS2 does not run everything in 720. It has distinct modes like the Sega Genesis does. A machine that does run everything at the same native res is the Neo Geo, and the OSSC reacts accordingly by allowing the same H.samplerate to work for every game.

So how are modern TVs able to accept these non-standard resolutions?

[Fudoh]

we're still talking about analogue signals, so there isn't really a fixed horizontal resolution.

FBX, what have you tried so far ? How many different resolutions have you encountered when trying PS2 games ?

I have to admit that I never before paid attention to that and - to be honest - I think it's considerably less important here than it is with low res 240p titles. Still great of course that the OSSC can be further tweaked for those kinds of games.

[MightyMar]

I purchased a JVC RS-VP2 and I'm wondering if the VP50PRO 1.05 firmware update would work with the RS-VP2?

Does anyone know if this is possible?

[Braca862]

I have a Sony XBR-49X700D 49" 4K TV. The SNES can only display at 5X mode, with some occasional black screens. Every other modes have no display on the SNES.

[FBX]

FBX, what have you tried so far ? How many different resolutions have you encountered when trying PS2 games ?

I have to admit that I never before paid attention to that and - to be honest - I think it's considerably less important here than it is with low res 240p titles. Still great of course that the OSSC can be further tweaked for those kinds of games.

I've got several more I will test:

Silent Hill 2
SSX trilogy (with part 3 having 480p mode)
GTA 3 and Vice City
Capcom vs SNK 2
Street Fighter Anniversary Collection
Street Fighter Alpha Anthology
The Thing
Tekken Tag Tournament.

But anyway, it is important to me because in the case of FFX, it looks frikken terrible when the H.samplerate isn't properly aligned. The graphics look like they have been split with vertical slices all over the screen.

Now Christian might still be correct if it's a case where the PS2 itself nearest-neighbor stretches the game's internal H-res to fit 640. If that is actually what's happening, then the OSSC has the unique distinction of correcting bad hardware design

[Xyga]

EDIT/ any idea about the lag? Very high chances it's similar to most other Full-HD monitors today and therefore easily sub-1 frame, but we never know 100% until tested. :p

I don't have the equipment to do "real" testing, but comparing the ViewSonic VX3211-mh with my iiyama ProLite XB2783HSU (known to have low input lag) by connecting them both to my PC and running https://www.testufo.com/frameskipping didn't show any unusual lag (both with native FullHD and lower res signals).[/quote

Update: verified the same lag as the 32MP58, roughly 3ms top, 10ms middle, 17ms bottom. Depending on one's interpretation, that's either a lagless 60Hz display, a sub-1-frame 60Hz display, or a just-1-frame/true-to-the-frame 60Hz display.
note: I think it is necessary to turn the black stabilizer off before starting the measurements.

The VX3211-mh indeed shares a lot with the 32MP58, panel, coating, and lag are the same.
But a lot of things are done better;
+ uniformity is better, but I suspect this is due to the software black stabilizer that unlike the 32MP58's works okay and doesn't freak out when complicated patterns are displayed
+ again compared the the LG this also profits the overall perceived blacks, compensates a bit for the reflectiveness of the coating and the glow
+ the default overdrive is perfect indeed and even seems to make the Viewsonic slightly superior in response
+ as you've demonstrated; real lineX5 in 1080 mode, 1:1 with cut-out active lines. golden.
+ no aspect ratio control and detection issues
+ smooth scrollings, no hiccups
+ D-SUB/VGA works very well with legacy devices like the DISPL, adjustments are fine and the sharpness slider acts as a contrast enhancer which is not too bad in cases
+ much better build and matte plastic bezel, heavier, firm stand
+ audio in and out supporting audio mixing with the video inputs, convenient for both my OSSC and DISPL that only have passthrough
= no scaling issues, very decent interpolation, but the same could be said about the 32MP58
~ VESA mounting is 100x100 this time, which is good but it is also off-centered
~ a few more sync dropouts compared to the 32MP58 and S32F351, but almost exclusively on game startups, pre-gameplay, where several screen transitions sometimes with different resolutions usually happen, otherwise during gameplay I've seen only a brief occurence (using switched pal MD2) after several hours without any trouble at all
- the volume control is bad as it can't reduce under a certain level, even at 1 it is too loud and the cheap, very noise-sensitive high-pitched speakers make it hard to endure, they're almost useless actually
- the many buttons on the side and bizarre two-layers menus are even more of a pain to use than the jog-thingies of the S32F351 and 32MP58, really a design failure here

Yep, if only it had a good VA panel like the S32F351, a bit less reflective coating like the HP 27xw, and for convenience more inputs, better amp/speakers and FreeSync, it would be the ideal affordable Full-HD display.
Not perfect, but the VX3211-mh is the best 200~zeni OSSC-friendly display I've tried so far, great find Thomago!

EDIT: regarding deinterlacing flicker induced pixel retention; on the 32MP58 I've tried it using Steel Empire and the retention was visible but went away very quickly, on the VX3211-mh I didn't notice it, but maybe I've skipped the flickering screens sooner..
I couldn't notice any bleeding as well, but the bottom left seems a tiny bit brighter. Not an issue when a signal is displayed as the black stabilizer kicks in and almost completely evens-it out anyway. Still not a display for watching movies but above the average of IPSes.

[fafangus]

Hi guys
What do you think about this thing
https://www.hdfury.eu/fr/home/39-hdfury-vertex.html
Do you think it's reliable to pair the OSSC with a 4k (oled) ?

Anyone ?

[Seraphic]

Hi guys
What do you think about this thing
https://www.hdfury.eu/fr/home/39-hdfury-vertex.html
Do you think it's reliable to pair the OSSC with a 4k (oled) ?

Anyone ?

I purchased and just received one from HDFury to try just what you are suggesting.
However, before I open it, I am waiting for confirmation if it supports internal sampling of 4:4:4 or also downsamples to 4:2:2 when upscaling 1080p60 to 2160p60 with RGB content.
If not I might just sell it as I don't want any chroma loss.

Lsat reply I received from HDFury:

Not yet from us and quite a few tasks to do before we can look into it, the question is not really if it can maintain an internal sampling of 4:4:4 as the answer is probably not,
the question is does it do better than Linker, or is it closer to 4:2:2 or 4:4:4. At least that's what we can try to determine with cell spreadsheet test.

[fafangus]

Hi guys
What do you think about this thing
https://www.hdfury.eu/fr/home/39-hdfury-vertex.html
Do you think it's reliable to pair the OSSC with a 4k (oled) ?

Anyone ?

I purchased and just received one from HDFury to try just what you are suggesting.
However, before I open it, I am waiting for confirmation if it supports internal sampling of 4:4:4 or also downsamples to 4:2:2 when upscaling 1080p60 to 2160p60 with RGB content.
If not I might just sell it as I don't want any chroma loss.

Lsat reply I received from HDFury:

Not yet from us and quite a few tasks to do before we can look into it, the question is not really if it can maintain an internal sampling of 4:4:4 as the answer is probably not,
the question is does it do better than Linker, or is it closer to 4:2:2 or 4:4:4. At least that's what we can try to determine with cell spreadsheet test.

Ahah thanks !!
Let us know what's doing this little box ^^

[Xer Xian]

That thing is interesting (and like all HDFury products, it's also damn sexy ), but - judging from their reply to Seraphic's question - we can probably forget it will ever do 4:4:4. However, pre-upscaling low-res content (i.e up to 480p) to 1080p will largely defeat the loss of information due to chroma subsampling (since the effective resolution is more than 2x lower on each axis). What I'd worry about instead is if the Vertex will accept the OSSC's non standard 1080p output..

[Blair]

I just made some direct HDMI captures and video of the OSSC 1.6 in action. (gallery:https://imgur.com/a/U01aV )


GameCube component out (YUV), Game Boy Interface 240p mode, OSSC line5x, Generic 4:3 (scanlines 12% mostly)

Sonic Advance






Mega Man Battle Network 3





Video links


Sonic Advance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFmzZ2lKFDM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CQbrmkCLgM

Mega Man Battle Network 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMlPCqvSzDY

(Please set youtube quality to 1080p60/GPU colour space RGB Full 0-255)

[BuckoA51]

Lovely , mind if I show those off on my social media?

[Blair]

Lovely , mind if I show those off on my social media?

Sure! thats sounds like an honor.

[fafangus]

That thing is interesting (and like all HDFury products, it's also damn sexy ), but - judging from their reply to Seraphic's question - we can probably forget it will ever do 4:4:4. However, pre-upscaling low-res content (i.e up to 480p) to 1080p will largely defeat the loss of information due to chroma subsampling (since the effective resolution is more than 2x lower on each axis). What I'd worry about instead is if the Vertex will accept the OSSC's non standard 1080p output..

I believe the Vertex only accept 1080p resolution, so...

@blair
Always great caps, what hardware do you use ?

I've just made a sonic MD1 cap (for others use , my 32X gives me somes glitches...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3cYzyR ... e=youtu.be
(OSSC line X5 + Vision E1 RGB)

[Thomago]

great find Thomago!

Well thank you

That said, I'm confused about what you are writing about the Black Stabilizer feature.

1. You make it seem like the VX3211-mh has this feature activated out of the box. This isn't the case; in "Standard" mode, the feature isn't even available.
2. The Black Stabilizer doesn't even anything out; it just messes around with Gamma in a specific way. See here (https://youtu.be/2A-H1e2msQQ?t=64) for a cringy demonstration. I mean... you make it sound like the feature is actually beneficial to image quality. To be absolutely clear: It isn't!

And I have a question: The VX3211-mh has an option for reducing input lag; it's active by default. What happens to the lag if you deactivate it?

[Xyga]

To make sure we're talking about the same setting; it is available under the manual picture adjustments menu as 'black stabilization', and yes even when in 'standard' picture mode for me.

Rather than gamma it seems to mess with black levels or a combination of both, although of course it does nothing @50 which is the default (it is on mine and obviously fine).
What I mean by evening things out is that the blacks on those LGs are blacker than they should be by default (considering the panel specs), most probably with the rest of the colors adjusted to that default setting. From what I've seen on both the 32MP58 and VX3211-mh it seems this is how they artificially increase the perception of blacks and contrast, and make the uniformity look better than it should be.
Why do I think that? because during some input transitions on both monitors you can see the software control of the colors turning itsel off briefly, and the 'real' panel's contrast/blacks performance appears for a short moment.
This is not an issue at all, after all this is one way to 'improve' IPSes, I think some high-end monitors use a similar (although more refined) method, HP also artificially increase the performance but using 'smoked' coatings instead.
If you've seen many IPS over the years it should appear a bit suspicious that several recent models (these past two years it seems) manage to offer better perceived black and contrast performance than their actual specs should manage to achieve. I might be wrong but to me they're 'cheating' a bit. ^^
I'm okay with it though, because the results are definitely good-enough.

[Thomago]

Ah. Black Stabilization (plus several other features) wasn't available cause I was in sRGB mode. In User mode it's there again. That being said... the input transition effects you are describing - these don't sound like what Backlight Stabilization is for, but Advanced DCR (which is off by default).
Also, I can't say that I have seen anything like what you are describing, and I'm usually quite perceptive to these things. Can you think of a way to provoke these effects?

[Xyga]

Not an 'effect' but the difference when the backlight is on but no picture/colors are applied yet, and when it does.
Or if you want the short gap sometimes when the backlight turns itself on like 1 second before the signal's picture begins to show. It just happens sometimes.
During that short time when the display is lit yet 'bare' you can see the real contrast and black performance of the panel.
The 'black stabilization' settings being on or off is a matter of semantics because 50 is the default/neutral and should never been touched anyway. Why it is named like that is only a matter of marketing crap to make it look like it's a cool feature when it's really nothing. Except if you consider...
...the second point I've added - sorry to make things more confusing - which is that I really think the display's adjusted to a default/neutral strong, deep black level.

Whatever, it is a good monitor, and more importantly a good monitor for the OSSC! ^^

[Thomago]

I can't quite follow you, but indeed, it's a good monitor