Prelude to the Apocalypse

[gameoverDude]

Americans are retarded.

Those who voted for Trump are idiots, yes. Hopefully they're at least smart enough not to repeat that mistake.

[Rob]

Are Trump voters not getting what they wanted?

[BryanM]

The polls would suggest that yes, most of them are.

There's this cartoonish view of elections as being like some kind of sporting event, where you can "win" points and that's how you "win" the game. The epitome of this was when Mitt Romney had his press conference right after Benghazi before the bodies were even cold to say "Obama: pee pee doo doo he is a bad president" and smirked like he had scored a bunch of points. Or the slime lords the Clinton people are, who love to use Republican attack tactics: Started the "Obama is a muslim" stuff, saying that Sanders is an atheist Jew who hates women and minorites, etc.

Minds don't change. It's so easy to ask other people to change. It costs nothing and accomplishes nothing. It's harder to slightly adjust oneself, and accept that Trump didn't win the election, Clinton lost the election.

You're supposed to rally your allies in order to win. You're not supposed to spit on them, then rally your enemies. It's solitaire, not football.

[Rob]

The polls would suggest that yes, most of them are.

I don't follow the polls - are getting or are not getting? The people I've asked have been pleased with what they've been seeing.

saying that Sanders is an atheist Jew who hates women and minorites, etc.

Well, I'd still like to know why Sanders and well-off leftists in general choose whitopias as their home bases. Sanders might not hate them, but abandoning Brooklyn for Vermont life doesn't make the diversity loving appear very believable. I want to see them living it since they want the non-fat cat little guy to live it.

[Mischief Maker]

Are Trump voters not getting what they wanted?

If you mean they want 70 work visas for foreign workers at Mar-A-Lago, then yes.

[BulletMagnet]

Are Trump voters not getting what they wanted?

Depends: if they're only here for the never-ending series of yeaaaaahhh fuck youuuuu yeaaaaahhh pep rallies and care about absolutely nothing else, they're happy campers. If they actually hoped this administration would do a single thing to attempt to make their lives better, or at the very least no worse than before, they were fooled just as badly as the rest of us repeatedly warned them they were, and we can only hope they're past the "indignant denial" stage by the next time they vote.

Started the "Obama is a muslim" stuff

Myth, in case you actually care.

[quash]

http://observer.com/2016/09/media-fact- ... ther-muck/

https://dailykos.com/stories/2008/3/14/476539/-

You really are something else. A true believer, you are. It's okay, I'm sure those ties to Russia will be substantiated eventually!

[BryanM]

why Sanders and well-off leftists in general choose whitopias as their home bases

He wasn't well-off when he chose to live in the republican rightwing stronghold of Vermont. As you should probably know as it's a popular factoid in rightwing circles, he was a homeless jobless bum at the time. Sleeping on couches and lawns. It took 13 years for him to finally get a solid, permanent job as a mayor and some many years more after that to turn the state into a hippy utopia.

(It really can't be overstated how right wing Vermont used to be. There are only TWO states to have never voted for FDR: Vermont and Maine. That's about as red as you can get.)

But yeah, inequality is nuts in this country. Cheap land is only great if you have the money to buy it, improve it, and the resume to extract more money from your new home. No money, no resume, no utopia 4 u.

You really are something else. A true believer, you are.

Leftwing authoritarianism is a hell of a philosophy.

Incredible how Obama's campaign team aren't a reputable source for them. Even if he had the authority, it was only borrowed at the benevolent allowance of Abuela.

I'm sure those ties to Russia will be substantiated eventually!

Somehow opposition research is "collusion".

... the same thing the Clinton campaign team did, except they paid the Russian agencies money for their intel.

If a miracle happens and a Sanders-ite gets the dem nomination in 2020, watch how fast Trump will become the best patriot in the universe among these people.

[BulletMagnet]

You really are something else. A true believer, you are.

Y'know, it's been a little while, so what the hell, I'll play another round of "pretend quash is here for any reason besides Infowars-style trolling" (and bite my tongue about using The Daily Caller as a point of reference...or making "false flag" jokes): if whatever degrees of separation exist between Clinton and the "birther" movement (which, of course, nobody ran harder or more slanderously on than Trump) aren't enough for that all-important plausible deniability in your book, fine. However, presumably you're aware that, in taking such a position on murky "gray areas" of politicking, you can no longer by the same token even pretend to claim that Team Trump isn't in similarly deliberate, winking cahoots with the white supremacists.

It's okay, I'm sure those ties to Russia will be substantiated eventually!

To expand on my reply to Rob, I find the focus on impeachment, even if it turns out to be true, depressingly self-defeating: even if Trump is impeached and even if it is for good reason, the true believers and well-paid shills will still insist that the whole thing was one big witch hunt, the folks who still think Reagan gave a rat's ass about them will take them at their word, and when another Trump happens along to peddle his new improved snake oil they'll vote for him, too. If Trump isn't pushed from office for any reason besides the fact that every single one of his - and his party's - policies is an absolute disaster for anyone not as rich as he is, the cycle is doomed to repeat again and again.

[quash]

if whatever degrees of separation exist between Clinton and the "birther" movement (which, of course, nobody ran harder or more slanderously on than Trump) aren't enough for that all-important plausible deniability in your book, fine. However, presumably you're aware that, in taking such a position on murky "gray areas" of politicking, you can no longer by the same token even pretend to claim that Team Trump isn't in similarly deliberate, winking cahoots with the white supremacists.

Depending on who you talk to, he appointed one as AG. But if you're trying to make a connection to him and the David Dukes of the world (who no doubt claim connection to Trump, if for no other reason to expand their platform), that's a little more dubious.

To expand on my reply to Rob, I find the focus on impeachment, even if it turns out to be true, depressingly self-defeating: even if Trump is impeached and even if it is for good reason, the true believers and well-paid shills

Well-paid by whom? Certainly not Trump himself.

If Trump isn't pushed from office for any reason besides the fact that every single one of his - and his party's - policies is an absolute disaster for anyone not as rich as he is, the cycle is doomed to repeat again and again.

Here's the thing: you say this as though anyone should automatically agree with you based on their income alone. When in reality, there are plenty of fairly successful people who may not even necessarily be well off, merely self sustaining, that aren't interested in class warfare. They simply want to continue to provide for themselves and their families without having to take up another job.

Many of these people are even capable of seeing some of the same things you do, but they place a different value on them. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't think corporate interests run America, but merely observing the same thing doesn't automatically put people in the same camp. You have to provide an argument and make it applicable to people's lives. Burning investment bankers at the stake may sound fun to you, but again, most people would rather use the economy to their advantage any way they can.

I think you paint a bleak picture in your head that doesn't necessarily reflect the world around you. I was going to tell you earlier in this thread that the majority of Americans, including a good portion of Republicans, support universal healthcare. So what does that say about your view that people are simply uninformed? I don't think you're giving people enough credit. Not everyone is a genius or even smart, but you don't necessarily have to be smart to figure out what's best for you. Of course, what's best for you may not always be what's best for everyone else, but again, that's where value assignment comes in.

As long as the messaging on the left stays within DNC or DSA echo chambers, you can continue to expect loss after loss at every level of the electorate.

[BulletMagnet]

But if you're trying to make a connection to him and the David Dukes of the world (who no doubt claim connection to Trump, if for no other reason to expand their platform), that's a little more dubious.

If you want to apply the same standard as you do to Hillary, that all you need to do to "support" the crazy shit the outliers on your side of the divide (including within your own campaign) are doing is to stand back, fold your hands and act as if none of it has anything to do with you (let alone openly toss out the occasional "well, you know, on some level they kinda have a point" statement, which she never did), then Trump absolutely has a "connection" to the white genocide crowd.

Well-paid by whom?

The obscenely rich and influential people who stand to profit very handsomely - again - if Trump's and the GOP's policies go into effect. Quit acting dense, this isn't even remotely complicated.

You'll be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't think corporate interests run America, but merely observing the same thing doesn't automatically put people in the same camp. You have to provide an argument and make it applicable to people's lives.

So what "argument" are Trump and the Republicans making, aside from the same laughable, repeatedly-failed shit they've peddled for decades, that we need to keep shoveling more wealth directly into the pants of the plutocrats while taking the meat axe to government programs, benefits and protections for everyone else (while still invariably exploding the deficit) until, one of these days, the stupidly wealthy are finally completely satisfied with how rich and unaccountable they are and suddenly start willingly investing it in the rest of the populace, without mean ol' Uncle Sam having to force them to, as he always has?

Millions upon millions of people still get sold this shit every single day, and the people who keep saying it, much like the President himself, simply ignore when everything they say turns out to be spectacularly wrong, and just keep droning on, without any tangible loss of influence - and they keep winning elections. Sorry, but an electorate that votes - and is openly encouraged to vote - "with its gut" because "that's just my opinion" and "to send a message" rather than for any arguable reason is not the electorate of a functioning democracy - it's merely the plaything of the most shameless, fabulistic music man with the biggest megaphone, as evidenced by the current occupant of the Oval Office...and the fact that, no matter how badly he fails, he may well do it again in 2020.

[Mischief Maker]

Well-paid by whom? Certainly not Trump himself.

The Mercers, duh.

You do know that Breitbart doesn't make a profit and would shut down if the hedge fund billionaire Mercers didn't keep it afloat as their personal propaganda korps, right?

And how hilarious was it last week when Robert Mercer made this huge announcement that he was cutting ties to Breitbart entirely... by handing his own stake over to his daughters, so nothing changes.

The only person who’s really damaged here is Yiannopoulos. Rebekah’s gonna continue funding Breitbart, [and] there’s no repentance or shift here . . . it’s just a P.R. maneuver to [take] pressure off his hedge-fund investors.

Yeah, I guess a video of your house-faggot serenading a crowd of sieg-heiling neo-nazis might make things a little awkward with your Jewish investment partners.

[BryanM]

Poor Rand.

As long as the messaging on the left stays within DNC or DSA echo chambers, you can continue to expect loss after loss at every level of the electorate.

Wrong.

DSA style messaging wins elections. DNC style messaging loses elections.



Amazing how "Trump sucks" is less effective than "fuck them, get yours".

You know this but pretend otherwise, because it makes you pee yourself at night in fear that Mr.Burns and Mr.Smithers might lose their control of the country for a couple years again.

(Double ironic because Trump used DSA style messaging to barely win the rust belt. Fake populism from the GOP undercutting rightwing corporate democrats is the story of the modern age. From Nixon lying about ending the war in Vietnam, to Reagan lying that he was going to help all white people. Leftwing policy positions keep winning elections even if they're as fake as the meat in chicken mcnuggets, but it's really just kicking the immigrants out that wins, amirite?)

[BryanM]

Some of the highlights of tonight's bloodbath:

Guy who wrote a bathroom bill, defeated by a trans-sexual.

Guy who thinks cops shouldn't abuse their power elected district attorney.

Republican propaganda helps get socialist elected.

I swear, you guys who think race lording is ascendent all because they barely won a coinflip election against a jobber that was paid to lose, are silly gooses.

[Specineff]

Not sure if this is included in your report, BryanM: The results are in and Northam wins the election for governor of Virginia.

[BryanM]

Not sure if this is included in your report, BryanM: The results are in and Northam wins the election for governor of Virginia.

Northam voted for George W twice, so I consider that more of a low-light : /

[Mischief Maker]

Context, dude. I want to see 3rd way democrats go the way of the dodo as much as anyone, but if Ed Gillespie won, it would have long term redistricting consequences.

I know that's just as boring as the SCOTUS consequences of Trump's election, but when public sector unions are gutted in a few months after Gorsuch casts the deciding vote in Janus v. American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, Council 31 we'll see just how consequential those boring little details can be.

Even if fucking Cory Booker becomes president in 2020, it will be an improvement.

[BryanM]

Nah I'm optimistic about the whole thing, important wins were had, many terrible people were made very sad that night - it'd just be great to get a human being in as governor somewhere some time soon. I know that's being too greedy.

Thanks for reminding me of the alternate universe where Clinton won and the supreme court vacancy goes on for five years instead of just one. 2016 was one big dookie for the history books any way you sliced that turd. Regime collapses typically are, Hoover was a splendid mess himself.

[BulletMagnet]

Thanks for reminding me of the alternate universe where Clinton won and the supreme court vacancy goes on for five years instead of just one.

I'd rather have that than Scalia mk. II. If nothing else it would have hopefully given more people time to wake up and realize "wait a sec, one of our major parties is openly refusing to do its job out of sheer spite" - the pitiful amount of outrage generated at the fact that they stole a Court seat in broad daylight is a travesty, and I'm not sure whether to be more incensed at the acquiescence of their constituency or of ours. And also the reason that McCain and the rest of the "we find Trumpism deeply troubling" crowd who "hesitantly" voted to upend democracy, and any of their apologists, can fuck off.

[nosorrow]

It's been a MAGAgical year. Kooky leftists, cuckservatives and social justice warriors have been reeeeing daily for more than 365 days now, and I still can't get enough.

[BryanM]

The Iraq war started in 2003. Any plea to morality or rationality fell off the cliff at that point.

We're not waiting for people to "become woke" and change. We're waiting for them to be replaced.

But I've endlessly pontificated on how destructive a system see-sawing between terrible and worse has been. We're either living in roko's basilisk or the best possible timeline given the circumstances.

It's been a MAGAgical year.

Glad someone else is happy about Virginia, vanguard of the Confederacy, a magical country that mandated a $0 an hour maximum wage, was taken over and locked down by communists.

The democrats will do their damnest to avoid a repeat of 2006 next year, but without a terrible Gollum-esque PR model to sink themselves with, they might just fail to fail.

I think they kno that tho and will be sure to give her lots of time on television.

[Mischief Maker]

New allegations that Roy Moore's a kid-toucher. Talk about embracing the Trump ethos!

Will Republican voters even care?

Will they view it as a positive?

[brokenhalo]

Will Republican voters even care?

Roy Moore has an (R) next to his name, so obviously any allegations of kiddie-diddlin are FAKE NEWS. Please excuse those fine folk while they go back to shouting about the latest hollywood elite that got called out for sexual harassment.

[BulletMagnet]

Will Republican voters even care?

Will they view it as a positive?

'Mary Was a Teenager.' Alabama Republican Uses Jesus to Defend Roy Moore

While we're at it, "values voters" can, once again, fuck off too.

[Rob]

It's been a MAGAgical year. Kooky leftists, cuckservatives and social justice warriors have been reeeeing daily for more than 365 days now, and I still can't get enough.

High five, my brother. Bonus fruitcakes screaming for gulags.

[Mischief Maker]

Will Republican voters even care?

Will they view it as a positive?

'Mary Was a Teenager.' Alabama Republican Uses Jesus to Defend Roy Moore

While we're at it, "values voters" can, once again, fuck off too.

Dunno if that comparison could backfire with the MAGA crowd, considering that Joseph was literally the ultimate cuck.

[Mischief Maker]

You fucking knew he had to weigh in on this.

[Rob]

I swear, you guys who think race lording is ascendent all because they barely won a coinflip election against a jobber that was paid to lose, are silly gooses.

Tucker Carlson: Dems New Strategy is to Replace You. Tucker is the only good guy on the boomer tube. Are you saying that you believe politics as race war is a thing that is going to go away, that it's a thing that's not going to win elections (for whites as the country continues to "diversify") or something else?

[BryanM]

Democrats having a "strategy" of doing anything more than doing their best to keep losing elections and keep the corporate cash flowing is a fanciful notion indeed. Like Narnia, or Harry Potter. An entertaining fiction, maybe, but sane people living in the real world don't buy it.

Us cool materialists notice how they when they gerrymander, they give themselves huge unnecessary 20% margins and let republicans have the other seats. Or how Clinton seems to have a lot to say about RUSSIA and racist sexist berniebros, but absolutely not a single word on the one matter that did actually influence the outcome of the election: voter suppression.

If these super smart democrats wanted to "replace" their best friends in the world by actually winning elections for a change, they would, maybe, talk about a constitutional amendment that gives American citizens the right to vote.

Fucking crazy I know.

Are you saying that you believe politics as race war is a thing that is going to go away

It's not nearly as close to as influential as it was back when we were setting black people on fire in the middle of the street because they tried to vote. It will be even less so in the future as old people who didn't grow up with Sesame Street and the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air pass away.

I keep repeating incessantly here that different people care about different things. I care about not being put into a metal 3'x3' cube by Elon Musk and Goldman Sachs in the not so distant future. Others care about various other things. Race war will never be more than ~20% of the population's primary concern.

We've got kids to feed, Jack. Worrying about penises all day is more for those who are obsessed with men.

[BryanM]

Comprehensive list of meaningful Democratic party actions in 2017:

* Installed corporate crony Tom Perez as head of the DNC.
* Purged the DNC of every single person not sufficiently corrupt.
* Kept cash to useless consultants flowing. $millions was spent telling people how swell consolidated data centers would be.
* Moved California forward in the presidential primary in hopes it'd kill a Sanders run.

List of actions against the Republicans:

* Said Trump was mean.
* Said George W. is a great guy.
* Said republicans are great people. They just shouldn't be so mean.



Yes. Truly the actions of a group of people committed to winning elections by addressing problems people experience in their day to day lives.