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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:53 pm 


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Posts: 327
While desoldering my PPU of my AV Famicom, I stupidly lifted the pad for pin 33. There don't seem to be any traces coming away from that via, so I'm not sure what (if anything) I need to do to fix it?

Looking at the schematic for the chip, that pin is apparently AD5 and connects to the U4 SRAM pin 15. I am away from my Famicom right now but I found a picture online of the underside of a board and highlighted the pad I have lifted with an arrow. Should I try to identify a via with a trace that goes to pin 15 of U4 and solder a wire from pin 33 on the socket to there? Or will that fact that this leg doesn't have any traces coming away from it mean that I got away with it?

Image

Appreciate any advice you can give me!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:50 pm 


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Location: USA
RGBSource wrote:
viletim wrote:
Voultar wrote:
@RGBSource It's actually very basic. It's AC coupled video and the capacitance is critical. Having anything <200uF and you are violating characteristics which may yield voltage errors and excessive line-tilt distortions. The appearance of this distortion is similar as what you see in the picture,. Stacking AC coupling capacitors like that in series should be avoided, regardless.


There's nothing wrong with placing additional capacitors in series on the RGB lines. It reduces the total series capacitance to about 110u but there's no harm in that.

Line tilt isn't really worth worrying about. Try this experiment: Place a 22u (yes, ten times smaller than recommended) capacitor in series with each video signal. Connect your best monitor, play your most familiar game and try to spot the line tilt distortion. Can you see it?

For video signals with sync, its better to keep the coupling cap large (>200u), else the sync separator might have trouble with it.


While the information shared is interesting and all, it's a tangent to the actual root cause - incorrect voltage regulator (plus something else :D). Even when using a direct connection from the NESRGB (with stock 220uF caps), the artifact is both observable and can be captured. It isn't simply the result of someone doubling up the caps in their cables.

Here's a teaser (using a direct cable/no caps in cable):
Image


Well sure that's a good point. These two aren't mutually exclusive. The phenomenon I'm talking about was observable years before this issue ever came around. :-)
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:38 pm 


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Kez wrote:
While desoldering my PPU of my AV Famicom, I stupidly lifted the pad for pin 33. There don't seem to be any traces coming away from that via, so I'm not sure what (if anything) I need to do to fix it?


So I went ahead and finished the mod, and everything seems to work fine! If anyone knows what I might have messed up here, let me know! Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:07 am 



Joined: 16 Jul 2017
Posts: 16
Sega90s wrote:
Looks like I will have to remove the caps on board as voultar suggested or make a custom snes cable without the 220uf caps.


Most people are using either RGC's SNES RGB cable or RCA's SNES RGB cable. That being said, I'm trying to figure out why the NESRGB board is designed with the AC coupling capacitors stacked in series. A design is made to fit the normal case, but this is not the normal or popular case.

What am I missing here, what multiout cable fits the bill without having to modify the board?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:19 am 


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ChrisFritz wrote:
Sega90s wrote:
Looks like I will have to remove the caps on board as voultar suggested or make a custom snes cable without the 220uf caps.


Most people are using either RGC's SNES RGB cable or RCA's SNES RGB cable. That being said, I'm trying to figure out why the NESRGB board is designed with the AC coupling capacitors stacked in series. A design is made to fit the normal case, but this is not the normal or popular case.

What am I missing here, what multiout cable fits the bill without having to modify the board?


The NESRGB kit ships with a mini-din 8 connector for video and a TRS stereo jack for audio. By default, it was never really meant to be paired with a multi-out interface. Unless you count the AV Famicom.

I would just replace the VREG or add another cap on there to take the edge off and see how your mileage is. The problem that I'm talking about goes long before this counterfeit part issue. It probably isn't an issue on most setups. Most, but not all.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:08 pm 



Joined: 23 Jul 2017
Posts: 29
I've added the cap fix and notice very little improvement, so I ordered the voltage regulators from digikey. Soldering it on the board should be easy,but whats the best method to desolder it? Can It be removed with desoldering braid?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:29 pm 


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Sega90s wrote:
I've added the cap fix and notice very little improvement, so I ordered the voltage regulators from digikey. Soldering it on the board should be easy,but whats the best method to desolder it? Can It be removed with desoldering braid?


Helps if you read the supplied instructions..

http://etim.net.au/nesrgb/background_fault/


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:45 pm 



Joined: 23 Jul 2017
Posts: 29
I've read the instructions , but maybe I should have been more clear. Is there a preferred method to removing the voltage regulator besides heating up and sliding off the component. This being surface mount my only fear is ruining the pads below with too much heat or force removing it.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:41 pm 


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Sega90s wrote:
I've read the instructions , but maybe I should have been more clear. Is there a preferred method to removing the voltage regulator besides heating up and sliding off the component. This being surface mount my only fear is ruining the pads below with too much heat or force removing it.


For me, nothing beats a hot air rework station with a small nozzle adapter and some professional electronics tweezers. I just wave the hot air in circles around the component while gently lifting on it with the tweezers. Soon as the solder melts, it pulls right off. After that, you can use braid to clean the pads with.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:22 pm 


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Location: Australia
Why question Tims methods?
It's a piss easy task. I put heaps of solder on and slide it right off. Cleaned up with wick.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:18 am 



Joined: 23 Jul 2017
Posts: 29
Not questioning Tims methods just my abilities. I am just getting back into doing this stuff as the last time I dealt with smd was a pc engine duo about a decade ago. It had corroded pads that when I removed the caps sliding them off the pads came off too. I guess if it’s piss easy I’ll have to just give it a go.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:39 am 


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I can understand your worries of sliding pads off 30 year old consoles, but Tims boards have nice thick pads and a quality pcb.
It will take plenty of heat and won't burn or lift.

When reinstalling the regulator though be sure to 'Just' kiss it with solder, they hate too much heat and will easily fail if installed incorrectly. Having said that ensure the tab is well soldered as that's the heatsink.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:58 am 



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 469
Location: Sydney, Australia
Voultar,

I did some more testing with coupling caps in series with RGB signals. All capacitively coupled video signals have frame tilt distortion and it's the job of the video clamp to compensate for this. They also have a very small amount of line tilt distortion. The visible distortion is line tilt + clamp error (from fixing frame tilt). I don't have good quality video monitors at hand, but I can believe this distortion can be visible when using coupling caps less than 220u in some circumstances. It's somewhat dependant on the clamp performance of the TV/Monitor/Scaler.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:00 pm 


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viletim wrote:
Voultar,

I did some more testing with coupling caps in series with RGB signals. All capacitively coupled video signals have frame tilt distortion and it's the job of the video clamp to compensate for this. They also have a very small amount of line tilt distortion. The visible distortion is line tilt + clamp error (from fixing frame tilt). I don't have good quality video monitors at hand, but I can believe this distortion can be visible when using coupling caps less than 220u in some circumstances. It's somewhat dependant on the clamp performance of the TV/Monitor/Scaler.


It could well very be that he's interjecting to deflect as his solution to the faulty regulators was to placate customers by removing caps in cables, instead of diagnosing and resolving the actual issue. Pretty bad if that's the case.
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Hi-Def NES firmware with RGBSource Color Palettes
New NESRGB Firmware Featuring RGBSource Color Palettes
NES "Hybrid" Palette - Striking a Balance Between Composite and RGB
Creating an "accurate" NES NTSC Color Palette


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:44 pm 


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RGBSource wrote:
viletim wrote:
Voultar,

I did some more testing with coupling caps in series with RGB signals. All capacitively coupled video signals have frame tilt distortion and it's the job of the video clamp to compensate for this. They also have a very small amount of line tilt distortion. The visible distortion is line tilt + clamp error (from fixing frame tilt). I don't have good quality video monitors at hand, but I can believe this distortion can be visible when using coupling caps less than 220u in some circumstances. It's somewhat dependant on the clamp performance of the TV/Monitor/Scaler.


It could well very be that he's interjecting to deflect as his solution to the faulty regulators was to placate customers by removing caps in cables, instead of diagnosing and resolving the actual issue. Pretty bad if that's the case.


Are you really that dense, or do you have a serious social disorder?

Not once did I make the claim that the phenomenon was the cause to problems that people are currently experiencing. I explained in fairly clear terms that I've corrected visual distortion issues in the past by removing the stacked AC coupling capacitors. I never discredited Tim's explanation with recent/current batches of his product. I certainly never said it was the solution. Where is it that I instruct people to remove capacitors from their cabling?

Dude, you really need to get over yourself. You treat so many people here with disrespect and you often contrive toxicity with your ridiculous posts and needless bashing.

@Viletim -Right on dude. I agree with you.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:58 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 426
RGBSource wrote:
viletim wrote:
Voultar,

I did some more testing with coupling caps in series with RGB signals. All capacitively coupled video signals have frame tilt distortion and it's the job of the video clamp to compensate for this. They also have a very small amount of line tilt distortion. The visible distortion is line tilt + clamp error (from fixing frame tilt). I don't have good quality video monitors at hand, but I can believe this distortion can be visible when using coupling caps less than 220u in some circumstances. It's somewhat dependant on the clamp performance of the TV/Monitor/Scaler.


It could well very be that he's interjecting to deflect as his solution to the faulty regulators was to placate customers by removing caps in cables, instead of diagnosing and resolving the actual issue. Pretty bad if that's the case.

LMAOOOO...if you weren't such a raging cunt all the time, I'd have assumed you were kidding and this would have been a hilarious dig. I mean, it still made me laugh, but seriously dude (like I already told you over PM), you need some help for whatever disorder it is that you have. Good luck with that.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:39 am 


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When his avatar is a flexing bicep you can be sure he knows exactly what he's doing.

Every game needs baddies right? XD


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:42 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1026
Location: Toronto, Canada
When a person has only 65 posts, and some of them piss on long standing members of this community - one has to wonder.

When this person also has links to work that is based on work of said long standing member, in their signature - well .. I can see why the A-hole comments start flying here and on twitter.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:02 am 


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Before RGBSource emits any more flagrant non-sense and/or toxic posts that are seeded in an effort to cause trouble and be a sore to the community.

https://youtu.be/fXpFWBcah-o?t=1h35m6s

Seriously (not a joke), go see a behavioral therapist and come back when you learn how to be decent to people.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:18 am 


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As some of you already figured, RGBSource is indeed an alt. account for RGB32E. IP address matches. Forum rules are clear:

"We operate a strict policy of one account per user."

RGBSource perma-banned, as that account should never have been created. RGB32E has been temp-banned for 2-weeks.

As you were, people.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:43 am 


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Location: DFW area, Texas
undamned wrote:
As some of you already figured, RGBSource is indeed an alt. account for RGB32E. IP address matches. Forum rules are clear:

"We operate a strict policy of one account per user."



Ironically, I remember him jumping for joy to POUNCE on the fact that I unintentionally started a thread on a subject he had started a thread about from three pages prior. He got to talk trash on me for breaking forums rules AND get the thread locked in the process so I couldn't defend myself. I about quit the forums on the spot, but I decided I wasn't going to let him win.

And yeah, we all knew it was the same guy pretty much from the get-go. I believe the saying about "a leopard can't change its spots" applies here.

Anyway, that's all I wanted to say on the subject. I hope we can move on amicably (as long as we don't use that word on Kevin Hart :-P )
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Last edited by FBX on Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:10 am 


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RGBSource/RGB32E's dishonesty and smug deception are boundless. It's hilarious that he created a faux account to hide behind while lying to people when confronted if they were, in fact, one in the same person.

Congrats, dude. Whatever morsel of reputation you were clinging to has been effectively vaporized.

Nobody likes a liar.

Seriously, who makes a faux account just to be mean and nasty to people?
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:20 pm 


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undamned wrote:
RGB32E has been temp-banned for 2-weeks.

Personally I think he should be permabanned for this little stunt in addition to being a snide MFer for years, but oh well.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:00 pm 


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ApolloBoy wrote:
undamned wrote:
RGB32E has been temp-banned for 2-weeks.

Personally I think he should be permabanned for this little stunt in addition to being a snide MFer for years, but oh well.

2-week cool-down period for him to consider getting his act together. We'll find out if he wants to continue to be involved here or not.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:37 am 



Joined: 04 May 2015
Posts: 23
Hey, I'm taking a shot at this mod and I have composite wired up to start, just to check my picture, and I'm getting a really garbled image. I've experienced stuff like this before due to bad cart connectors, and I was told the image with nesrgb is kinda all-or-nothing in terms whether or not you get an image. Any insight is appreciated, I've tried reseating everything a number of times, and a few times the image has been correct, but it never stays that way. US frontloader, btw.

Image in questions:
Spoiler: show
Image

It's hard to tell but mario is alright, its whatever layer that everything else is on that's whacked out, so it seems like at least part of the mod is correct?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:24 pm 


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More than likely an address line is open. Check A0-A15 on the PPU/NESRGB/Motherboard and make sure you don't have an open on the address bus.

If it's sometimes working, the PPU might not be seated very well in its socket, or it's very likely that you just have a poorly wetted joint on the address lines.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:42 pm 



Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 132
I was just looking at my NESRGB board to check for the fake voltage regulator IC. My NESRGB came in a pre-modded NES bought in early 2016, so I'm outside the suspect date range, but I just wanted to make sure.

Tim says:

Quote:
Genuine: The genuine part has clear printing and a circular mould marking in the centre of its package, the text depends on manufacture date.

Fake: The fake part has poor quality printing, no mould marking, the text always reads HU1625 042.

Mine doesn't perfectly fit either description -- the part does not have a circular mould, but the text looks clear and reads "HU1042 4MT".

So, it seems like I have the genuine part, but apparently they don't all have the circular mould. Just an FYI to anyone else checking theirs.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:31 am 



Joined: 16 Jul 2017
Posts: 16
In the process of desoldering the voltage regulator with my hot rework station, I accidentally desoldered one of the small resistors right next to it. I managed to soldering everything back on and it all appears to work. Is there any sort of behavior I'd expect if I screwed up soldering the resistors near the voltage regulator?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:18 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1026
Location: Toronto, Canada
If you put it back I wouldn't worry too much.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:14 am 



Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Posts: 6
Hi all - I am having an issue with an NESRGB mod on a frontloader that I need some help resolving. With the NESRGB board installed in the NES, i get video output but the red LED begins to fickler and fade until there is no more video output. With the NESRGB taken out of the MB socket, the red LED stay consistently on. I have made a short video of what it looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHAADlzib6s

Board version is 1.4
Power/AV circuit has been re-capped
using additional voltage regulator to power NESRGB
With PPU installed in in the socketed MB, NES operates normally

Any ideas what I can check? Possibly a ground issue? Thanks in advance.


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