Turn-Based Strategy Games

[LordHypnos]

So, I was recently reminded (oddly enough, by this weird franchise crossover game on the Nintendo switch) that I actually really like turn based strategy games (or at least the grid-based ones), though my experience is pretty limited. I remember really digging Advanced Wars on the GBA as a younger kid, and enjoying what little I played of Shining Force (I think I played this on the Sega Smash Pack Vol 1 for DC). Not sure if I was ever really exposed to others.

Having a 3DS, the first thing I did was to get Fire Emblem: Awakening, and I have really been enjoying it. I remember Squire Grooktook comparing the individual campaigns to trying to play a shmup for the 1cc, and I definitely see the comparison, and I think that's where part of the appeal of this sort of game is, for me. I will say that, at least when you're playing normal difficulty (still classic, obvs), the difficulty level is ridiculously low by those standards, though. It's been taking me 1-2 tries to beat campaigns, usually.

I also got Xcom: Enemy Unknown for 360, at the same time, and only just tried it (two campaigns in). My impression so far is that it looks really fun just in terms of the battle system and such. I think I would prefer if it were actually on a grid, just because I think I have a better sense of how to strategize in that format, but it does seem like Xcom is more about cover and flanking than it is about blocking enemy activity through placement, so it will probably be fine. The other thing I'm a little worried about is the amount of strategy that happens outside of battles. R & D, geopolitics, etc. Not sure that I will enjoy that part of the game as much.

The final thought that I have, especially as it relates to Shining Force, is that I'm not really a big fan of levelling systems. So far it hasn't been too bad in FE. Nobody's severely overlevelled. There are some underlevelled guys though, and that will be annoying if I ever want to actually use them. I also played a bit of Shining Force before getting FE, and I ended up with some guys way underlevelled, and some guys way overlevelled. I don't really like having to put a lot of thought into who I'm finishing enemies off with apart from just who it makes sense to. Not to mention that once you have two or three overlevelled allies, it can be hard to get enemies down to kill range without actually killing them.

Anyway, that's what I have to say. What do you guys think? What are some of your favorite TBS games? What are some tips for FE or Xcom? What are some thoughts on this genre of vidya? Game recommendations? General discussion on TBS?

[FinalBaton]

I adore Shining Force I and II (you could even say that I worship them, lol). My love for them knows no bound. I have yet to play Shinning Force CD though but will pick it up at some point. Same with number 3 on the Saturn. I and II are mandatory, you should absolutely clear them if you like that genre IMO. So much charm in those, truly showcases how versatile Sonic Team was.

I agree that having to monitor who you're finishing enemies with (so as to evenly level up your characters)can be a bit annoying for some. but IMO apart from that the games are close to perfect. And hey you still get experience for all attacks/spells casted so it's not all bad.

[Mischief Maker]

Divinity: Original Sin for the PC is probably the single best tactical RPG combat system ever.

The original X-Com is a much better game than the remake, and grid-based, but if firing up dosbox is too archaic for you, Xenonauts is the closest any remake has come to recreating the magic.

If you're looking for something more obscure but still Advance Wars-esque, give Massive Assault: Phantom Renaissance a try.

And if you want something purely tactical, Sanctus Reach is pretty kewl, albeit bare bones.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Check out Code Name: STEAM on 3DS. It's much more akin to X-COM than your strategy RPG fare. Each character has unique primary weapons and buffs, but however you mix and match you always get a balanced squad, so it's a matter of your own preference for weapons and tactics. No cheating CPU that can see through walls either! Enemy AI obeys the same rules as you - they will wander into ambushes if they're unsighted of your troops in overwatch, but conversely they set traps of their own.

Fire Emblem Echoes is another good one. Being based on the old FC Fire Emblem Gaiden, the skills and weaknesses are dialled back a lot - but it's a positive in my opinion, leading to a better balanced game than Awakening (you worry less about your pegasus knights and the AI isn't as dumb). There's also no reinforcement spawns to worry about/memorise, at least not until the post-game section.

[FinalBaton]

Divinity

Two of my friends always rave about Divinity, they played it to hell and back when it came out and still play it. I will start a game with them at some point for sure

[iconoclast]

I don't play many of these but Valkyria Chronicles and Devil Survivor are two of my favorite RPGs.

This is a good site for recommendations and reviews: http://tbstactics.com/2010/11/recommend ... games.html

Looks like it's dead now but there's old stuff to look through at least.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

The Fire Emblem series is high-quality all the way through. Awakening on normal is probably a great starting point, but probably not the series' strongest entry. Once you've played that, I'd recommend the three GBA games, as well as Path of Radiance (GameCube, kind of expensive now), New Mystery of the Emblem (DS and Japan-only, download the translation patch to play) and Fates - Conquest (3DS). Haven't played the latter three yet but I've heard nothing but good things, and Fire Emblem is pretty consistently good so they're safe bets. I will say that I don't think I'd recommend Echoes much though. It's a very faithful remake of the second game in the series, Gaiden, which was the worst FE by a wide margin.

The best game in the series that I've played is Thracia 776 (SNES) but it's very difficult, I wouldn't recommend it until after playing a few other entries. Absolutely worth it once you're ready for it though.

[WelshMegalodon]

You're the first person I've seen to like Kakusei and the later titles without hating the Akaneia games or their remakes.

[Mortificator]

The original X-Com is a much better game than the remake, and grid-based, but if firing up dosbox is too archaic for you, Xenonauts is the closest any remake has come to recreating the magic.

If you're looking for something more obscure but still Advance Wars-esque, give Massive Assault: Phantom Renaissance a try.

And if you want something purely tactical, Sanctus Reach is pretty kewl, albeit bare bones.

There's a source port so the original X-COM can be played on a modern OS with lots of little conveniences, like scroll bars and auto-manufacture. I agree that's it's far superior to the remake, of course.

It's interesting to hear something positive about Sanctus Reach after all the trashy Warhammer games put out in recent years. Most of Slitherine's catalog is shovelware, and they also put out Armageddon, a Panzer General-style 40K game released in 2014 that wasn't even the equal of the middling Panzer General-style 40K game from '99.

[Mischief Maker]

It's interesting to hear something positive about Sanctus Reach after all the trashy Warhammer games put out in recent years. Most of Slitherine's catalog is shovelware, and they also put out Armageddon, a Panzer General-style 40K game released in 2014 that wasn't even the equal of the middling Panzer General-style 40K game from '99.

Well I don't want to oversell the game. I'm just going with the LordHypnos's stated desire for strategy on a square grid and Sanctus Reach comes to mind. Of all the trashy warhammer games in recent years, this is the closest any come to the trashy tabletop in gameplay, using a heavily modified version of the battle academy engine.

[LordHypnos]

Thank you for the recommendations. It's always nice to hear the takes of this forum on these things.

[qmish]

Jagged Alliance 2 or Silent Storm on PC
Ring of Red on PS2

Also Tactics Ogre and FF Tactics

[Mischief Maker]

Regalia: of Men and Monarchs might be of interest as well. It's a mix of Disgaea-esque isometric turn based combat with a light persona-esque relationship system with your party mates. The actual tactics borders on a puzzle game since you really need to delve into the buff/debuff mechanics to win.

[Stevens]

Not sure if it fits the bill, but the Mrs. is fond of Civ V.

[Vanguard]

Are you looking for SRPGs specifically? If not, look into roguelikes. Brogue is one of the easiest recommendations. Deep, intuitive, challenging, and free. Unlike most of the genre, your character doesn't gain experience points from combat. Instead, all character growth is based on the use of items. There are potions that permanently raise your stats that the game gives out at regular intervals, but more importantly, there are scrolls of enchanting that permanently improve one item in your inventory. Much of the long-term strategy is in deciding how to best distribute those enchantments. Enemy design is varied and pacing is brisk. A real winner.

I also recommend Shiren the Wanderer for the Super Famicom and the DS. There's not much character building, but it more than makes up for it with excellent consumable-based tactical combat. Tons of monsters can threaten your life even one on one, and there's no guarantee you won't encounter them in groups. Combine that with the fact that your character heals slowly and that your food supplies are limited and you've a recipe for constant tension and danger. Consumable items are extremely powerful and managing them is vital to success. Using them too liberally will leave you with nothing in the deadliest areas of the endgame. Using them too conservatively will cost you time and health and will put your life at unnecessary risk. Shiren has some very interesting and unconventional rules. For instance, any time an enemy gets a kill, it levels up into a stronger enemy, whether it be due to a monster defeating one of your allies or accidentally killing its own teammate with a stray arrow. This can be manipulated for a tremendous experience advantage if you can create and then somehow defeat a very high level monster. Using the item warehouse is equivalent to credit feeding in an arcade game and should be avoided. I recommend the SFC version (there's a fan translation) over the DS version for a few reasons, but either is excellent.

[NYN]

as well as Path of Radiance (GameCube, kind of expensive now)

I snatched it PAL last year as the price was right. It was under double and in very good condition. The game is fine, although the aesthetics take some time to endear. I like the novelty EXP pool to dip the bench warmers in. Where I lose my spit is, when characters are flipped in conversation. So the eye patch or facial scar or protective shoulder part is now on the other side. I don't know how to excuse this. Fates got the same thing.

Dawn of Radiance is close to double price at it is. Gotta move soon.

[ZellSF]

The only thing I seem to be getting from your opening post is you don't like management and leveling. Anyway, some of my favorite turn-based strategy games and how they relate to that (well it's going to be more "tactics" than "strategy", but so are the games you mentioned):

Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Shadow Wars for the 3DS is actually designed by the same guy who designed X-COM. You control a group of ghosts on a tile based map. Utilizing covers and position, retreating to heal, controlling control points on the map, choosing when to use your powers and AOE attacks are all important facets. Minimal management outside of the tactics: you get stars for completing objectives (including optional ones) that you use to level your squad and you choose a equipment loadout from very limited options before going into missions. This shows up in just about every 3DS hidden gems thread for a reason: it's pretty good.

SteamWorld Heist for 3DS/PC/Vita/PS4/WiiU/iOS/Xbone is sort of 2D X-Com. Played from a side view. Randomly generated levels and fog of war means you'll have to utilize your environment well. Being behind cover and not being near anything explosive. This game is really all about positioning your troops. What makes it unique is aiming and ricocheting, your characters aim will sway slightly so you have to time your shots exactly and some guns ricochet with or without laser aim so getting aiming right adds a fun element of risk. Minor amounts of management, your characters can equip a weapon and up to two items, you can buy items outside of battle. Managing your inventory is sort of time consuming. The game allows for replaying levels and has experience so there's some sort of "grinding", but it's very optional. The game punishes you for losing maps by taking resources away which might necessitate replaying levels if you're doing really badly.

Tom Clancy's EndWar for DS/PSP. Imagine Advance Wars with less production values on a hex based grid where units exert an influence over tiles next to them and with (almost) no unit production. Very closely related to Battle Isle, some of the same people worked on it and it shares a similar turn system (you move during your opponents attack turn and attack during their move turn). No management between battles, it's all about the tactics of the individual maps.

Military Madness AKA Nectaris for PC Engine. It also has some obscure ports, but really go with emulating the PC Engine version first. Like EndWar it is hex based and units affect hexes next to them. Unlike EndWar though, it isn't a (surprisingly competent) shovelware spinoff, but one of the classics of the genre. One that I think anyone who likes Advance Wars should give a go. And if you like it move onto the sequel Neo Nectaris for the PC Engine CD. Neither have any management outside of battles.

Valkyria Chronicles for PC/PS3/PS4. It'll just second this recommendation. Valkyria Chronicles is a weird gridless hybrid realtime turn based strategy. Basically you move your units in realtime and enemies will shoot at you until you end the character that's moving's turn. This is also the only game I'm recommending here that looks really pretty and has a fantastic soundtrack too. If you also find the game's attempt to utilize every anime trope in the book charming like I do then it's a fantastic experience. Even without all that the gameplay system underneath is very solid. Management outside of battles is limited, unless you fail spectacularly at many of the battles (higher ranks = more experience) you'll never have to replay battles to grind and the upgrades you can do outside of battle are simple and obvious. Valkyria Chronicles got two sequels for the PSP, Valkyria Chronicles III is the gameplay of the series perfected. Valkyria Chronicles II is the worst game in the series and can be skipped (but if you really want more Valkyria Chronicles it's not actually all that bad). Sadly there's a bit more incentive to grind in the PSP games (though it's not necessary).

Now for two more reluctant recommendations... First is Rebelstar: Tactical Command it's basically GBA X-COM (again by the same designer) with much less management. Sadly it's REALLY slow. Excellent in all other regards though.

Second is Battleship for DS/3DS/WiiU. I think it's surprisingly competent and worth a look by Advance Wars fans. It's grid based and the main gimmick with this game is that your ships have different sizes and that makes navigation tricky at times. No unit production like in Advance Wars. Reason I'm reluctant to recommend it is it's really easy and mission objectives are very unclear and it has no reservations against surprising you with enemy reinforcements from out of the map. Plus you know, if you're looking into the 3DS version (which is the best version) it has some heavy competition for your attention. No management between battles.

There are two games I want to recommend but can't since I really haven't had opportunity or time to play them myself yet: Battle Isle which I'm waiting until I get a Amiga FPGA system to get into and Codename Steam which I really don't know what my excuse for not playing it is. Maybe it's just the 3DS being a terrible piece of shit hardware I don't want to touch unless absolutely necessary.

And some games I have no opinion of, but I feel you should look into. Metal Gear Acid and R-Type Tactics, both for the PSP. They're supposedly both excellent.

[MintyTheCat]

Just as it hasn't been mentioned: Space-Hulk I love it but when I cannot play the boardgame with others and I fancy a game of SH I tend to play the SH PC game on Steam. I am not a fan of Steam but it's the only way to play it and it's the only game that I play on Steam

[Ruldra]

Final Fantasy Tactics is among my favorite games of all time. Great story, many classes to choose from, and many ways to become super-powerful. I had a character who could single-handedly wipe out the entire map in two turns. Breaking the game is part of the fun.

Vantage Master is another one I love very much. You summon units in the field and proceed to battle against another summoner. Several classes, over 20 units at your disposal and two campaigns. And it's free. Why this game is not popular is beyond me.

Does empire managers count? If so, I recommend these:

- Master of Orion (the original 1993 one, avoid the remake)
- Alpha Centauri
- Age of Wonders (much more focused on combat than empire management)
- Eador (same as above)

Now, a couple of questions:

1) I heard that it's possible to cheese in Valkyria Chronicles by rushing the scout toward the flag. How effective is this tactic and does it break the game?

2) How does Jagged Alliance 2 compare to old X-COM? I often heard people commenting about it but have no idea how good it is.

[soprano1]

Vantage Master is another one I love very much. You summon units in the field and proceed to battle against another summoner. Several classes, over 20 units at your disposal and two campaigns. And it's free. Why this game is not popular is beyond me.

Game download:
https://www.falcom.co.jp/vantage/download.html
Manual:
https://www.falcom.co.jp/vantage/manual/index.html

Spread the fun.
While I love FFT's story, Tactics Ogre LUCT (The PSP version) beats it in terms of gameplay.

[nZero]

Der Langrisser

[ZellSF]

1) I heard that it's possible to cheese in Valkyria Chronicles by rushing the scout toward the flag. How effective is this tactic and does it break the game?

It's pretty effective, but it does depend a bit on which orders you learn, which side content you play through and what classes you choose to level up.

I don't think it breaks the game any more than some of the other balance issues, there's many missions where it's not even an option.

But why would you look up how to break single player games before playing them? If you dislike games being broken, aren't you just removing your own enjoyment?

[Ruldra]

But why would you look up how to break single player games before playing them? If you dislike games being broken, aren't you just removing your own enjoyment?

It's not like I looked it up, scout rushing is the first thing people mention when VC is discussed. As long as it's not the only strategy that works in the game then I'm fine with it.

[iconoclast]

Scouts are definitely super good, but I think they're only really broken if you stack orders on certain characters. IMO the best way to play Valkyria is to try and clear out as many enemies as you can in as few turns as possible, and don't use orders at all (except at certain points where they're necessary).

[Immryr]

Vantage Master is another one I love very much. You summon units in the field and proceed to battle against another summoner. Several classes, over 20 units at your disposal and two campaigns. And it's free. Why this game is not popular is beyond me.

Game download:
https://www.falcom.co.jp/vantage/download.html
Manual:
https://www.falcom.co.jp/vantage/manual/index.html

Spread the fun.
While I love FFT's story, Tactics Ogre LUCT (The PSP version) beats it in terms of gameplay.

man, i really wanted to love tactics ogre but i got to the point where you have to duel someone with your main guy and the way i had built him it was just IMPOSSIBLE to win the fight. i didn't want to grind for ages just to get him to the point where the fight was winnable. i absolutely hate bs like that in games.

[soprano1]

What build was that, for curiosity's sake?

[ZellSF]

But why would you look up how to break single player games before playing them? If you dislike games being broken, aren't you just removing your own enjoyment?

It's not like I looked it up, scout rushing is the first thing people mention when VC is discussed. As long as it's not the only strategy that works in the game then I'm fine with it.

It's a very easy game. A lot of strategies work.

[Obscura]

Jagged Alliance 2 is the absolute best game of this type, and should be considered an absolute must-play.

I'm also quite fond of Silent Storm and its expansion, although it's nowhere near as polished. Knights of the Chalice is another winner.

[linko9]

Fire Emblem 4 on the SNES is my favorite, and one of my favorite games of all time. Much better than any other game in the series, since you really do have to formulate a strategy on each map, and the battlefields and scenarios are much larger and more complicated than what you get in other games. Also since there's a finite amount of experience (unless you exploit enemy healers), it really doesn't feel like an "SRPG" where you can just beef up all your characters. Also a great soundtrack, and the game looks pretty good as well.

[WelshMegalodon]

Now, has anyone here played Arliel or Royal Stone on the Game Gear?