Another day, another shooting in the US

[MintyTheCat]

I'm willing to bet that it's easier to buy a second-hand gun than get a driving license in the US and I bet they do a credit check on people attempting to rent a rental vehicle.

The sad shame is that this will just continue on and on until you lot wake up and sort your gun laws out. It is all very well calling these people psychopaths and such but the fact remains that anyone can do this and they are facilitated by the very weak processes in place surrounding gun ownership and such.

I shall say it again: in a country where it's easier to obtain a gun than it is to get an education or medical care it speaks volumes.

[quash]

Gun laws vary by state, and 22 of them have gun laws stricter than Canada.

Did you know that in California you have to wait an entire week to take a gun home after purchasing it? I sure am glad that stopped the San Bernardino attackers!

I'll say it again: there's more than one way to kill lots of people, and there's more than a few examples of communities with lots of guns and little violence.

[Mortificator]

This guy could have just as easily rented a U-Haul and plowed through the event instead.

(Actually, given the weapons he had, it would've been even easier, which just raises more questions)

When has anyone ever killed 59 people and injured over 500 with a U-Haul?

[Lyv]

Spoiler

Holy shit.
I'll take 'I don't understand and it doesn't fit my opinions so it's a conspiracy' for $100.
And a large order of freedom fries.

[quash]

This guy could have just as easily rented a U-Haul and plowed through the event instead.

(Actually, given the weapons he had, it would've been even easier, which just raises more questions)

When has anyone ever killed 59 people and injured over 500 with a U-Haul?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack

[Bananamatic]

why not just ban wh*te people

[Durandal]

I do think the official narrative stinks, though.

You truly can be counted on to always carry water for the shittiest people on planet Earth.

Speaking of which...

Keep reading MediaMatters and eating soy. Nothing is wrong, the government never lies to you (unless it's one of those gosh darned Republicans) and never ever scrutinize anything that can't be blamed on capitalism or the nuclear family.

Here's a sad fact: the sources I choose to quote depend on the person I want to appease.

[BryanM]

Hey.

There's a begging drive to acquire funds to help the victims of the shooting.

What a civilized country.

America.

[Mortificator]

This guy could have just as easily rented a U-Haul and plowed through the event instead.

(Actually, given the weapons he had, it would've been even easier, which just raises more questions)

When has anyone ever killed 59 people and injured over 500 with a U-Haul?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack

That's not a U-Haul, and outweights their heaviest by more than three times. The terrorist also carried a variety of guns to ensure he could carry out his attack.

[Rob]

That's not a U-Haul, and outweights their heaviest by more than three times.

Are you autistic? Imagine he said "large vehicle". People can carry out large scale attacks with large vehicles. Well, it wasn't precisely a U-Haul.

[ZacharyB]

Can't drive any vehicle out of a 32nd story window...

Can probably draw a longbow or crossbow or something, but not enough to maim 550 people.

[Skykid]

Gun advocates have the most ridiculous arguments.

A gun, in its very essence, is designed from the ground up to be absolutely effective at doing one thing. The sole purpose of its makeup, from its ergonomics to its weight, is to kill people with the least amount of effort.

It's not especially impressive to remind people that other instruments and objects can also be used as weapons and with deadly force, if applied correctly. We all know a moving vehicle can kill a person.

The point is, while swinging your lawnmower, chainsaw, baseball bat, fork, house brick, or driving your vehicle with intent to murder, you can encounter a number of possible variables that will hinder your precision and the outcome of your actions.

A gun has far fewer variables, meaning the outcome of pointing it at someone and pulling the trigger has far greater odds in favour of them dying. Therefore gun control is more necessary than vehicle control, fork control, lawnmower control, house brick control, and other potentially dangerous day-to-day objects.

[Xyga]

You can also sell poisoned food and beverages at the entrance...but shooting, bombing or plowing is more flashy.

[Durandal]

LAS VEGAS — The man who unleashed hundreds of rounds of gunfire on a crowd of concertgoers in Las Vegas had two accessories that could have allowed his semi-automatic rifles to fire rapidly and continuously, as if they were fully automatic weapons, officials said.

Though legally and widely available, the so-called "bump stocks" have attracted scrutiny from authorities and lawmakers in recent years.

California Sen. Dianne Feinstein, who has long expressed concern over the availability of such accessories, said Tuesday that Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock modified at least one of his weapons with a bump stock device, but she did not elaborate.

"Individuals are able to purchase bump fire stocks for less than $200 and easily convert a semi-automatic weapon into a firearm that can shoot between 400 and 800 rounds per minute and inflict absolute carnage," she said, calling for a ban on their sale.

I predict Democrats successfully getting the bump stock banned as Republicans try to compromise with their base by saying "it's just a mod". And then everything was solved and everyone patted themselves on the back for doing something. The media will sing songs about the banning of that evil bump stock.

Except you can juryrig one for yourself.
"A bump stock, huh? I guess I gotta try that one out for my own rampage!"

[Rob]

It's not especially impressive to remind people that other instruments and objects can also be used as weapons and with deadly force,

It's not supposed to be impressive. Just the facts of the matter. Bombs, guns, trucks - all can be used for indiscriminate killing. Except one of those things can keep you safe in a variety of circumstances. I know people in authoritarian or semi-authoritarian states think it is a joke, but Americans value guns for reasons other than enabling the occasional mass murder. As a non-gun nut, I don't know what kinds of gun control would be acceptable, but I would leave that decision to the gun nuts before I would leave it to the aspiring authoritarians.

[GaijinPunch]

That's not a U-Haul, and outweights their heaviest by more than three times.

Are you autistic? Imagine he said "large vehicle". People can carry out large scale attacks with large vehicles. Well, it wasn't precisely a U-Haul.

He literally backed up his argument w/ a stat.

but I would leave that decision to the gun nuts before I would leave it to the aspiring authoritarians.

[/quote]

That would work.

[Mortificator]

Bombs, guns, trucks - all can be used for indiscriminate killing.

Every fighting force on this planet does their killing with guns and explosives. I'll have to go with their commanders' unanimous judgement that the death-dealing capacity of the U-Haul is so inferior as to not even warrant consideration, rather than with the class clown whose specialty is sticking fries in his nose and making goofy voices.

[Mischief Maker]

Bombs, guns, trucks - all can be used for indiscriminate killing.

Indeed!

[Bananamatic]

why don't americans just stop building houses that are made of cardboard with no fences and a cat hole in the door for good measure
I thought they take home defense seriously, maybe you wouldn't need as many guns if you built a fucking fence

[quash]

Bombs, guns, trucks - all can be used for indiscriminate killing.

Every fighting force on this planet does their killing with guns and explosives. I'll have to go with their commanders' unanimous judgement that the death-dealing capacity of the U-Haul is so inferior as to not even warrant consideration, rather than with the class clown whose specialty is sticking fries in his nose and making goofy voices.

Fighting forces also assume they face armed opponents. When indiscriminately killing crowds of unarmed people, anything will do.

Again, keep in mind this dude had 20+ rifles, some of which have been outlawed for 30 years. Follow the logistics of getting this + ammo in a hotel room and you'll understand just how inefficient the choice method was in this case.

Before you remind me, yes, I know this is the largest mass shooting in US history. Try to think a bit below the surface on this though.

[brokenhalo]

Follow the logistics of getting this + ammo in a hotel room and you'll understand just how inefficient the choice method was in this case.

Multiple trips up and down the elevator is HARD WORK. If we outlawed elevators, perhaps this would have all been avoided.

Fighting forces also assume they face armed opponents.

Come on man, think it through. Why are they assuming they are facing opponents with guns, instead of a U-Haul fleet?

[quash]

Multiple trips up and down the elevator is HARD WORK. If we outlawed elevators, perhaps this would have all been avoided.

Thanks for an inane and irrelevant comparison.

How did nobody notice 20+ huge ass carrying cases, not to mention the boxes of ammo? This is among other problems with this plan, which apparently included setting up cameras in the hallways.

Come on man, think it through. Why are they assuming they are facing opponents with guns, instead of a U-Haul fleet?

Are you really talking to me of all people on the logistics of warfare? Did you really just compare fighting an army/insurgency with killing a crowd of civilians? Are you sure you want to go down this road?

[brokenhalo]

Multiple trips up and down the elevator is HARD WORK. If we outlawed elevators, perhaps this would have all been avoided.

Thanks for an inane and irrelevant comparison.

How did nobody notice 20+ huge ass carrying cases, not to mention the boxes of ammo? This is among other problems with this plan, which apparently included setting up cameras in the hallways.

Seeing as this is america, would it have made any difference if anyone had noticed?

Come on man, think it through. Why are they assuming they are facing opponents with guns, instead of a U-Haul fleet?

Are you really talking to me of all people on the logistics of warfare? Did you really just compare fighting an army/insurgency with killing a crowd of civilians? Are you sure you want to go down this road?

Mort was pointing out the efficiency of the usage of guns in this scenario. You're trying to make a point that other methods would have been lethal as well. This is true, but for realistic maximum efficiency in this scenario, you're going to go with automatic weaponry every time. Regardless of the targets.

[quash]

Seeing as this is america, would it have made any difference if anyone had noticed?

Given all the lipservice we pay to being vigilant against violent crime, I'd sure hope so, but seeing as this went off without a hitch...

Mort was pointing out the efficiency of the usage of guns in this scenario. You're trying to make a point that other methods would have been lethal as well. This is true, but for realistic maximum efficiency in this scenario, you're going to go with automatic weaponry every time. Regardless of the targets.

The truck attack in Nice killed more people and injured less.

If you were dropped into the Revolutionary War PUBG style and your objective was to kill everything that moves, which would you rather have: an armored Humvee or a belt fed machine gun?

[EmperorIng]

Don't you think you're barking up a wrong tree if you are assuming that the shooter wanted to kill people "as maximally efficient as possible", like he has a spreadsheet of weapon-to-death ratios by his side? Isn't it a given that you presume a certain amount of mental instability here? Considering that the USA is a country that unhealthily fetishizes guns*, and probably very more so in the western United States, I can see why that flashes into a deranged person's head more readily - it's already in the milieu. Unless this argument that "if he was smart he would have used a truck" is just a line to convince us that the "deep state" set up the entire attack for reasons that are clearly too stupid to even mention out loud (for fear that they'll hear us!).

*waiting for this phrase to be taken as proof of evil, liberal, gun-hating ways

[Obscura]

Don't you think you're barking up a wrong tree if you are assuming that the shooter wanted to kill people "as maximally efficient as possible", like he has a spreadsheet of weapon-to-death ratios by his side? Isn't it a given that you presume a certain amount of mental instability here? Considering that the USA is a country that unhealthily fetishizes guns*, and probably very more so in the western United States, I can see why that flashes into a deranged person's head more readily - it's already in the milieu. Unless this argument that "if he was smart he would have used a truck" is just a line to convince us that the "deep state" set up the entire attack for reasons that are clearly too stupid to even mention out loud (for fear that they'll hear us!).

*waiting for this phrase to be taken as proof of evil, liberal, gun-hating ways

Then shouldn't we be glad that guns are readily available since their availability distracts the mentally unstable from more efficient ways of getting the job done?

[Mischief Maker]

Just imagine the horror if he'd attacked the crowd with fresh fruit! WAY quieter than a suppressed assault rifle.

[quash]

Don't you think you're barking up a wrong tree if you are assuming that the shooter wanted to kill people "as maximally efficient as possible", like he has a spreadsheet of weapon-to-death ratios by his side? Isn't it a given that you presume a certain amount of mental instability here?

Sure.

Unless this argument that "if he was smart he would have used a truck" is just a line to convince us that the "deep state" set up the entire attack for reasons that are clearly too stupid to even mention out loud (for fear that they'll hear us!).

Or, I could just be illustrating the point that banning guns won't work because gun violence is a symptom of a fractured, ailing society, not a cause.

Not everything is the deep state, and more information will be needed to determine either way, but if you still doubt the existence of it, I don't know what to say at this point.

[Skykid]

Unless this argument that "if he was smart he would have used a truck" is just a line to convince us that the "deep state" set up the entire attack for reasons that are clearly too stupid to even mention out loud (for fear that they'll hear us!).

Or, I could just be illustrating the point that banning guns won't work because gun violence is a symptom of a fractured, ailing society, not a cause.

So if you have a fractured, ailing society in which people are broken enough to suddenly commit an act of unprovoked mass murder, having legal and easily accessible firearms within that society is totally by-the-by.

What kind of fucking logic is that?

[GaijinPunch]

From CNN:

He had an arsenal of weapons, including bump-fire stocks found in the hotel, which is a legal device that enables a shooter to fire bullets rapidly, similar to an automatic rifle. Paddock had outfitted 12 of his firearms with the bump stocks, according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Someone enlighten this snowflake, whose only gun was the NES light gun. Does that mean he effectively (and legally) modified a non-full automatic rifle to be more or less fully automatic? Or were these devices he had in addition to some military-grade style rifle.