Prelude to the Apocalypse

[Zen]

Canadian isn't a race though same as American isn't a race, we are all immigrants other than the natives. Things get a little more foggy I guess when you are dealing with countries and cultures that are mostly insular, like Japanese people in Japan, or Irish in Ireland. I'm Irish by heritage myself actually. For the most part, North America is all people who came here from somewhere else, whether recently or historically. A Canadian is someone with Canadian citizenship, where they were born is not really of much consequence. That is not to say they lose their heritage, but they can call themselves Canadians. Whether you were born a Canadian, or moved here and became a citizen, we are all equals and afforded the same rights and freedoms. Think something like a person of African descent, who's parent immigrated here before they were born, so they were born in Canada, with Canadian citizenship. They are Canadian. The family that immigrates here and goes through the process to become citizens, also Canadian. In my experience, the most proud Canadians are the recent ones, as they are so happy to be here and a part of our country.

Now I agree, our immigration policies likely wouldn't work in most other countries, but you have to remember, Canada is bigger than the US with a population smaller than the state of California, and our population is mostly in our major cities. We have tons of space, and we actually need people to come here to grow as a country. That being said, I feel our government at times goes above and beyond to help abroad when there are things to tend back home as well, but it's hard to fault when the goal is help the less fortunate who are without the means to help themselves.

Indeed. It is a magnificent expanse of land.
And Canadian culture? I mean its core values and character. How would you describe that?

[jonny5]

Canadian isn't a race though same as American isn't a race, we are all immigrants other than the natives. Things get a little more foggy I guess when you are dealing with countries and cultures that are mostly insular, like Japanese people in Japan, or Irish in Ireland. I'm Irish by heritage myself actually. For the most part, North America is all people who came here from somewhere else, whether recently or historically. A Canadian is someone with Canadian citizenship, where they were born is not really of much consequence. That is not to say they lose their heritage, but they can call themselves Canadians. Whether you were born a Canadian, or moved here and became a citizen, we are all equals and afforded the same rights and freedoms. Think something like a person of African descent, who's parent immigrated here before they were born, so they were born in Canada, with Canadian citizenship. They are Canadian. The family that immigrates here and goes through the process to become citizens, also Canadian. In my experience, the most proud Canadians are the recent ones, as they are so happy to be here and a part of our country.

Now I agree, our immigration policies likely wouldn't work in most other countries, but you have to remember, Canada is bigger than the US with a population smaller than the state of California, and our population is mostly in our major cities. We have tons of space, and we actually need people to come here to grow as a country. That being said, I feel our government at times goes above and beyond to help abroad when there are things to tend back home as well, but it's hard to fault when the goal is help the less fortunate who are without the means to help themselves.

Indeed. It is a magnificent expanse of land.
And Canadian culture? I mean its core values and character. How would you describe that?

Honestly, that is a tough one for me to answer. I've been giving that some thought of late, and it's hard to nail down I think. To me Canadian culture is diversity, it's respect for our peers, its compassion for our neighbours and our willingness to help those less fortunate. Aside from that our major cities are pretty much like most American cities, albeit slightly more colorful

[Zen]

Honestly, that is a tough one for me to answer. I've been giving that some thought of late, and it's hard to nail down I think. To me Canadian culture is diversity, it's respect for our peers, its compassion for our neighbours and our willingness to help those less fortunate. Aside from that our major cities are pretty much like most American cities, albeit slightly more colorful

Diversity of culture is one thing but diversity as a core value of culture? Thats a tough one to wrap the ole noodle around. The other values you name are, of course, familiar.

Tell me, as a Canadian embracing the (I think its fair to say progressive?) Canadian idea of diversity as culture, how well would you see that holding up to say, a large body of people whose culture is still directly emanating from its source race?

[jonny5]

Like I said, we dont expect people to assimilate, and some really dont at all. Lots of people who have lived here for decades who barely speak english, if at all, people who mainly exist within their own ethnic communities with little interaction outside that. There is nothing wrong with that. Follow our laws, pay our taxes, live your life. I get what you are saying, and I honestly can't answer it. Do I think things could go sideways for us eventually based on our immigration policies as more and more arrive, sure. But change isn't necessarily something to be afraid of, and to be honest I fell like I have more to fear from white supremacist types and racist xenophobes than I do from people coming here to start a new life in a better place.

When your population is made up of so many different groups, races, religions, there is so much culture mixing together, it is hard to define a CULTURE that covers everyone. I will have to think on this some more. It's not really something I have ever given much thought to. I think it would be an interesting question to pose to a relatively recent immigrant. I have grown up here, it just is how it is and I have never lived elsewhere, but for someone who came from somewhere else, it would be quite interesting to hear what they feel are the defining characteristics of Canadian culture.

I am not an ultra conservative person though, there are certainly people here who are very against our immigration policies, the amount of people we have coming here, the amount of foreigners. Some people are more scared of change than others, and some just cant accept differences. But I think that would be the case anywhere

[Rob]

Now, I would kindly ask you to do me the respect of not throwing around terms like 'cuck' at me. This is a very offensive thing to call someone,

I see. Do you think calling people "white supremacist" is offensive or potentially damaging? I do not believe one bit in white supremacy. I have encountered more than enough cretinous whites to have any illusions about white supremacy, and I don't believe whites should rule over people who would prefer to be governed or policed by more sympathetic members of their own group. I don't believe whites should exploit people from other nations, meddle in their politics or affairs in general. If people want to chop off hands, marry family members or engage in canniblism, that is fine for them over there.

However, I wish the same for myself and my country. Any non-white who chooses to live in a nation founded by whites should be there because they want to be in a white nation and have the capacity to harmonize with the native whites, and it would be much easier to welcome them. Our cultures and institutions can not be maintained by people who hate us and our ancestors, hate free speech, hate our laws, etc. Too many people are coming here and too many of them for monetary reasons alone. A desire to make and consume more will never be the glue that keeps a country together.

we are all immigrants

"a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence."

I don't know about you, but my earliest known ancestors came here when there was no country. They established a country.

[BulletMagnet]

I do not believe one bit in white supremacy.

If people want to chop off hands, marry family members or engage in canniblism, that is fine for them over there.

...

I don't believe whites should exploit people from other nations, meddle in their politics or affairs in general.

that part of the reason our ancestors were (and we are) able to advance as they did was at the direct expense of others,

That's how it works, and I'm thankful Europeans weren't sniveling cowards at some point in time. We need to get some of that back. Being a whiteness-deconstructing doormat is a good way to let others advance at our expense, and I don't believe descendants of the people who made/let it happen will be thankful.

...

Any non-white who chooses to live in a nation founded by whites should be there because they want to be in a white nation and have the capacity to harmonize with the native whites, and it would be much easier to welcome them.

"Muslims are attracted to America because of the way it is; they have no intention of changing or harming America. Muslims know that if they had settled here first, modern America would probably look like the Middle East, and would not be a welcoming beacon of freedom and innovation. [...] According to an August 2017 Pew Research Center poll, only 43 percent of Muslim Americans attend mosque weekly. Underscoring Muslims' hunger for integration, the same poll found that 82 percent of Muslims in America are U.S. citizens, and 89 percent are proud to be both Muslim and American."

...

I don't know about you, but my earliest known ancestors came here when there was no country.

My memories of history class might be fuzzy, but I seem to recall that there were already numerous people and societies present on the continent before the Europeans arrived.

Sorry Rob, you've officially gone Full Quash.

[jonny5]

So you're not a white supremacist? Just racist then? If you find being associated with white supremacists troubling, you might want to stop talking like one. Go tell a black Muslim dude how you feel, I doubt he will make the distinction.

[Rob]

you might want to stop talking like one.

Then you might want to stop talking like a cuck if you don't want to be called a cuck.

Go tell a black Muslim dude how you feel, I doubt he will make the distinction.

I love it when totally not racist whites say stuff like this. You assume that a "black Muslim dude" would respond or act out in a certain way. What kind of way? Muhammad Ali on race.

[Rob]

Never respond to bulletmagnet.

[jonny5]

you might want to stop talking like one.

Then you might want to stop talking like a cuck if you don't want to be called a cuck.

Go tell a black Muslim dude how you feel, I doubt he will make the distinction.

I love it when totally not racist whites say stuff like this. You assume that a "black Muslim dude" would respond or act out in a certain way. What kind of way? Muhammad Ali on race.

You missed my point. You start spouting off like that to most people of any race, they probably aren't going to take too kindly to it, but if you spoke as bluntly and sarcastically as you have in this thread to some random black dude in the street, you're going to get your head kicked in. Not because he's black, but because the things you say are terrible.

I am quite sure you would never say this shit to an actual person other than one of your white friends or on the Internet.

Same way you wouldn't call me a cuck to my face, unless you wanted to be spouting your racist nonsense with a lisp for a while.

[Rob]

The portrait of the tolerant liberal has been completed. Thank you.

[Rob]

Race is a social construct

Even if this was a scientifically sound position, only over-intellectualizing white passing humans would care.

In Brazil, not withstanding relatively large levels of genetic admixture and a myth of “racial democracy,” there exists a widespread social prejudice that seems to be particularly connected to the physical appearance of the individual (8). Color (in Portuguese, cor) denotes the Brazilian equivalent of the English term race (raça) and is based on a complex phenotypic evaluation that takes into account, besides skin pigmentation, hair type, nose shape, and lip shape (4, 9). The reason the word Color (capitalized to call attention to this particular meaning) is preferred to race in Brazil is probably because it captures the continuous aspects of phenotypes (4). In contrast with the situation in the United States, there appears to be no racial descent rule operational in Brazil and it is possible for two siblings differing in Color to belong to completely diverse racial categories (8). The Brazilian emphasis on physical appearance rather than ancestry is demonstrated by the fact that in a large survey when asked about their origins (the question admitted multiple responses) <10% of Brazilian black individuals gave Africa as one of their answers (10).

Don't tell the white nationalists though, it might upset their world view.

You'll have to do a bit more digging. White nationalists will cite Brazil as validation for the ideology ("precisely the multi-racial nightmare we must avoid").

[brokenhalo]

Yes. There was no country for Europeans to immigrate to. We colonized and competed for land as the various tribes competed with each other. We then founded a country.

In your view, why didn't the europeans have to assimilate within the native american culture? Why were they allowed to enter a strange land and spread their culture, to the point of almost entirely erasing the natives culture.

[jepjepjep]

Race is a social construct

Even if this was a scientifically sound position, only over-intellectualizing white passing humans would care.

It doesn't matter if you care or not. It is a social construct. Just as the earth is round. It is regardless of your personal beliefs.

Take your "white" race example. How do you define it? You claim to be descended from the first settlers in America. Where your ancestors British? How do you think of your own white race, is it Anglo-Saxon, Germanic, Nordic, Celtic, a mixture of the above?

[jepjepjep]

In Brazil, not withstanding relatively large levels of genetic admixture and a myth of “racial democracy,” there exists a widespread social prejudice that seems to be particularly connected to the physical appearance of the individual (8). Color (in Portuguese, cor) denotes the Brazilian equivalent of the English term race (raça) and is based on a complex phenotypic evaluation that takes into account, besides skin pigmentation, hair type, nose shape, and lip shape (4, 9). The reason the word Color (capitalized to call attention to this particular meaning) is preferred to race in Brazil is probably because it captures the continuous aspects of phenotypes (4). In contrast with the situation in the United States, there appears to be no racial descent rule operational in Brazil and it is possible for two siblings differing in Color to belong to completely diverse racial categories (8). The Brazilian emphasis on physical appearance rather than ancestry is demonstrated by the fact that in a large survey when asked about their origins (the question admitted multiple responses) <10% of Brazilian black individuals gave Africa as one of their answers (10).

Don't tell the white nationalists though, it might upset their world view.

You'll have to do a bit more digging. White nationalists will cite Brazil as validation for the ideology ("precisely the multi-racial nightmare we must avoid").

LOL, thanks for linking that article. I got a good laugh out of the ending: ```There is an interesting anecdote from shortly after President Vargas’s coup d’état. Spanish nobles of the same name asked the Pope to check baptism records to see whether Mr. Vargas was a relation. He asked that the research not be carried out for fear of what might be found in his family tree: “In Brazil we always expose ourselves to the risk of ending up in the jungles [being part Indian] or the kitchen [being part black].”[16]'''

and this one too: ```After the death in 1908 of Brazil’s greatest writer, Machado de Assis, the race on his birth certificate was changed from mulatto to white so as to better explain his talent.[12]'''

[Specineff]

Guys. Let's just stop pouring more fuel on this bigoted fire. If Rob's happy in thinking that pointing fingers at foreigners and blaming them for all the problems of the country is something he needs to do as his patriotic duty, let him, and be happy that you don't share his condescending views and impotent hatred of his fellow man. It's been enough already with Quash's Chewbacca-ing and Rancor's gaslighting already.

[Rob]

I told you I can't vote since I'm not a citizen.

Have you become a U.S. citizen since last year or are you just really opinionated about what we should be doing with our country?

[Specineff]

I told you I can't vote since I'm not a citizen.

Have you become a U.S. citizen since last year or are you just really opinionated about what we should be doing with our country?

Not going to bite, Rob. I pay my taxes, I have a bit of a say in the matter, whether you like it or not.

[jepjepjep]

What do you consider "white race" Rob?

[Rob]

What do you consider "white race" Rob?

[jepjepjep]

Would you be in favor of letting white Mexicans into the country, and just screening out the brown ones?

[Rob]

Why were they allowed to enter a strange land and spread their culture, to the point of almost entirely erasing the natives culture.

Perhaps because the native tribes believed that coexistence was possible or beneficial.

[Zen]

You missed my point. You start spouting off like that to most people of any race, they probably aren't going to take too kindly to it, but if you spoke as bluntly and sarcastically as you have in this thread to some random black dude in the street, you're going to get your head kicked in. Not because he's black, but because the things you say are terrible.

I am quite sure you would never say this shit to an actual person other than one of your white friends or on the Internet.

Same way you wouldn't call me a cuck to my face, unless you wanted to be spouting your racist nonsense with a lisp for a while.

For what its worth and with all due respect, time spent considering the psychology behind responding to words and ideas, with violence and threats of violence, would be time well spent, jonny5.

[Xyga]

Your two's (and unfortunately not just you two) racism is unbearable, nauseating to most people who aren't sick bastards, your ideas are of incredible violence and we are forced to endure your disgusting provocations, deliberately using emphasized sweet and polite tone to further troll and infuriate people only actually emphasize that you are a slimy sick bastard. You have zero right to tell people how they should respond to you, no right to judge them, because you don't deserve any respect.
But even lower than you and all the bastards who keep posting these atrocities in this thread are the people who allow this and therefore completely support you.
What a shame for this community.

[Zen]

Your two's (and unfortunately not just you two) racism is unbearable, nauseating to most people who aren't sick bastards, your ideas are of incredible violence and we are forced to endure your disgusting provocations, deliberately using emphasized sweet and polite tone to further troll and infuriate people only actually emphasize that you are a slimy sick bastard. You have zero right to tell people how they should respond to you, no right to judge them, because you don't deserve any respect.
But even lower than you and all the bastards who keep posting these atrocities in this thread are the people who allow this and therefore completely support you.
What a shame for this community.

I am not going to exacerbate your obvious distress by analysing the obvious cognitive dissonance on display in your post.
I have always treated you with respect, Xyga. Unfortunately you continually seem unable to reciprocate with basic manners.
I genuinely feel sorry for you.

But even lower than you and all the bastards who keep posting these atrocities in this thread are the people who allow this and therefore completely support you.

And yet again, you deliberately malign this forum. Shameful.

[Xyga]

The slimy trolling in this thread is too damn high! Thanks for another nice display anyway.

[jonny5]

You missed my point. You start spouting off like that to most people of any race, they probably aren't going to take too kindly to it, but if you spoke as bluntly and sarcastically as you have in this thread to some random black dude in the street, you're going to get your head kicked in. Not because he's black, but because the things you say are terrible.

I am quite sure you would never say this shit to an actual person other than one of your white friends or on the Internet.

Same way you wouldn't call me a cuck to my face, unless you wanted to be spouting your racist nonsense with a lisp for a while.

For what its worth and with all due respect, time spent considering the psychology behind responding to words and ideas, with violence and threats of violence, would be time well spent, jonny5.

It's all well and good to espouse hate and throw around words like cuck from the safety of your keyboard, but talking that shit in real life has consequences. My point was Rob is not stupid, he knows what he is saying, and he knows I am right. He would NOT say that to my face, unless he WANTED a fight. The same way he wouldn't walk up to a black person and start telling them about how people like them are destroying his 'white country'. Those are not words you use to start a conversation. Those are words you use to start a fight.

The portrait of the tolerant liberal has been completed. Thank you.

I'm tolerant of many things, but people who promote hate and division have no place in modern society.

[Zen]

It's all well and good to espouse hate and throw around words like cuck from the safety of your keyboard, but talking that shit in real life has consequences. My point was Rob is not stupid, he knows what he is saying, and he knows I am right. He would NOT say that to my face, unless he WANTED a fight. The same way he wouldn't walk up to a black person and start telling them about how people like them are destroying his 'white country'. Those are not words you use to start a conversation. Those are words you use to start a fight.

I understand the point that you were making. All I offered was the suggestion of impulse control. Without it, their is only chaos.
Words, any words, said to "my face", never have and never will result in violence. This is a very basic skill that we all learn as children, yes?

I am suggesting to you that analysing any disproportionate response to what are after all, words, will be far more informative to oneself that allowing impulse to win over and then wasting ones mental processes on justifying the loss of control.

I'm tolerant of many things, but people who promote hate and division have no place in modern society.

If you see them as having no place in modern society, what do you see as the solution? What one may perceive as "hate and division" will be subjective and may differ wildly for one person to the next. What exactly would be the antidote to what one perceives as "hate and division". Protest? "Punch a Nazi"? Where does it end?

[charlie chong]

i respect muslim hash making country living warlords THE MOST.. they are far more civilised than us AND can live off the land and don't even need laws to govern themselves.

plus they fire rocket launchers at governmernt/police/anyone that fucks with them.
TRUE FREEDOM MY FIRENDZ

[Blinge]

All I offered was the suggestion of impulse control. Without it, their is only chaos.

there*

Words, any words, said to "my face", never have and never will result in violence. This is a very basic skill that we all learn as children, yes?

I am suggesting to you that analysing any disproportionate response to what are after all, words, will be far more informative to oneself that allowing impulse to win over and then wasting ones mental processes on justifying the loss of control.

Oh baby, this virtue signalling!
Your little declaration should be put to the test, I'd pay good money to see it.