Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[BrianC]

Even arcade Heavy Barrel, a game I put quite a few quarters into the cabinet of, isn't as appealing to me now. The areas are more varied than Ikari, but there's a jerkiness to the graphics, and the key & box system requires a lot of memorization to get the most out of.

Less so than NES/FC, though. At least on AC, it shows you what the power ups are. Not all power ups are locked behind a box in the AC version.

[mycophobia]

Got my Shadow Dancer 1CC:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D7o3ArN-cQ

There's an interesting music glitch at the end of stage 3-1.

Not much to say about the game that I haven't already said. Moderately difficult but nothing too tough. I no-missed up to stage 4-1 and kind of fumbled my way to a clear from there; it's not that the stage 4 sections are much more difficult than 3's, I just haven't played them as much.

[__SKYe]

Congrats, great job. You've really been working on it, with both Shinobi clears and the Mystic Warriors one too.

Now you've got to clear Shinobi Legions and the GBA one (I haven't played the Saturn game yet, but boy do those digitized graphics look terrible. I did play the GBA game, and it is quite subpar).

I have 1CC'd Chip & Dale (FC, JP version) in the mean time though, and it is indeed an easy game, made even more so by the fact that you are showered with 1-Ups thoughout the game (either through collecting items/stars, or 1-Up items in the intermission between stages).
I might go for a 1LC, but I'm not in a rush to do so, as while it is a nice polished game, I don't find it that appealing as to spend too much time on it.

Perhaps the more disappointing thing about it are the boss battles, which are all quite simple and pretty repetitive as well (the 2nd game improves on them quite a bit), and the thing I dislike the most is that the collision detection/hitbox sizes are too strict/too big, and you hit enemies/spikes even before your sprite touches them.
It doesn't affect the game's difficulty that much (you just need to remember to be more careful), but it make it somewhat odd to play, since you need to make bigger motions/jumps, in order to not even graze hazardous spots, and this is especially noticeable with spikes on the floor (like against one of the bosses).
Not too bad, but it does bring the experience down a notch, in my opinion.

[mycophobia]

I looked up some video of the GBA Shinobi and man it looks awful lol. I've not yet seriously played either of the Super Shinobis so I'll definitely be checking those out before I even consider playing the more obscure entries in the series. But for now I've got a list of arcade games I'm interested in trying so I'll probably spend either this evening or the next going through some of them and seeing which one I want to focus on.

[__SKYe]

Yeah, the GBA game was developed by 3d6 Games, which apparently got some kind of deal with Sega to port/remake two of their games, which are The Revenge Of Shinobi and Altered Beast, and both of them can only be described as pretty damn generic. Perhaps the Shinobi game even more so (Altered Beast was already simple, gameplay-wise, to begin with), since it doesn't really resemble the original games at all, but both have a lot of the same generic enemies with overly long (and equally boring) levels. And those semi-CGI sprites look pretty ugly to boot.
They remind me of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, also for the GBA, which I find as much generic and boring as both these games (and with similarly ugly pre-rendered sprites).

I don't know about the Saturn one, but in my opinion, the GBA entry isn't really worth playing, at least not until you're done with the good titles, and even then, only if you really want to play for the sake of it being part of the series, or out of curiosity (I tend to give these kind of games a try anyway, regardless of how bad they appear to be, if not only to be reassured that they are as bad as I initially thought ).

But definitely play the Mega Drive original titles (Super Shinobi) those are quite good, though I still have to muster the will to play them through. Gotta clear the Castlevania(s) first.

[BrianC]

The GG Shinobi titles, while a bit more Mega Man-ish with ninjas with different abilities earned at the end of levels, are also very much worth playing. It's too bad the SMS Shinobi games didn't get the same level of polish.

[BIL]

Although it's nowhere as cool as the MD pair, nor does it handle as impeccably, Shin Shinobi Den (Saturn) is a pretty decent stand-in for The Super Shinobi III. Clearly based on SSII's hidden (and excellent) six button mode. Sword and guard get their own buttons and some neat new tricks, most notably a wicked somersaulting cut that I always miss when returning to the MD games. And as painfully stupid as the Ducktales-esque katana bounce that replaces SSII's spine-shattering divekick may look, it facilitates some remarkably smooth aerial massacres.

Had it matched the formidable audiovisual flair of the MD games, I've no doubt its mainstream image would be more swan song than mid-90s misfire. Nowhere as triumphant an upholding of 16-bit form as Taromaru (SS) or Little Ralph (PS1), but most definitely no milquetoast Rapid Angel either.

The MD Super Shinobis are excellent assault course pieces, but by that same token, totally unlike the crisp, deadly pick up n' play simplicity of the AC/MD trio. They're paradoxically easier yet less user-friendly at the outset, but steadily gain momentum if you're willing to grapple with them a bit. Play the JP version of Super Shinobi to ensure maximum copyright-infringing fun - the more shamelessly cosplaying enemies were progressively chopped out by later revs.

[dojo_b]

My favorite feature of Shadow Dancer is the green gimp-suit ninjas who crawl around and hurl themselves at you. That's some Pulp Fiction shit right there... too bad they weren't able to take the kink-fest theme further.



I also remember the soundtrack having an aggressive, angular prog-jazz vibe that worked to very good effect with the MD's FM chip---this also helped convey a sense of adult menace.

I got the Normal-mode 1CC a couple years back, thought the final boss was a cool and challenging set-piece. I quite like the measured and tactical feel of this game's combat; should return for the higher difficulties.

[mycophobia]

I got the Normal-mode 1CC a couple years back, thought the final boss was a cool and challenging set-piece. I quite like the measured and tactical feel of this game's combat; should return for the higher difficulties.

I really like how the different difficulties represent completely different enemy layouts; they even amusingly change the title of the game to "Shadow Dancer II" for difficulty level 2 and "III" for level 3. I've only ever 1CC'd the default difficulty but I definitely plan to go back eventually. Shame about the easily exploitable bonus stages though. To kind of circumvent that I just don't fire at all during them and collect the 1-up.

[FinalBaton]

Oh man, I friggin' LOVE the Genesis Shinobi games.

Genesis port of Shadow Dancer is my fave of the bunch. It's like comfort food to me. It has everything I love about a sidescrolling action platformer : hability to carefully plan your run, and fluid and extremely tight controls.

I actually gave it the honor of being my first ever recorded longplay. Here is my no-death run on default difficulty :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz2CtUgpXdk

[Vanguard]

Finally got some free time to spend with Saigo no Nindo, mostly savestate practice on stages six and seven. I think clearing the last two stages in one credit is harder than the first five.

Exploiting enemies' lack of touch damage is even more useful than I thought. It's especially good against the samurai - when they try to intercept you in the air, passing in front of or behind them will get you killed. Instead, you want to go straight through them. It's very counterintuitive to move directly into the enemy, but it works. The stage 6 boss can also be trivialized using that same idea. I'm still very inconsistent in stage 6 though. Sometimes I no-miss it, sometimes I lose my entire credit before the checkpoint.

For the stage 7 midboss, I've found it's better to manipulate him into jumping every time rather than trying to get him not to jump. Now he's only a problem if a samurai shows up at a bad moment. I had a hard time figuring out the final boss. The first time I credit fed through I beat him in one try, so I figured he's another Black Slayer, an easy boss at the end of a tough game. Since then he's given me a lot of trouble. I eventually discovered the somewhat safe strategy of staying on the floor as much as possible so that most of his lightning attacks hit the ground. Are his attack's sometimes unavoidable? It sure seems that way to me when he arbitrarily starts to rapid fire his shots.

Anyway, I should be ready for serious 1cc attempts next time.

[BIL]

I'm not sure if they can be literally undodgeable, but from my own meagre efforts, and Ex_Mosquito and Vludi's much more authoritative 1CC commentaries (AC version in each case)... I got the impression those homing bolts can indeed be quite the motherfuckers. I definitely had a few wildly varying encounters myself; sometimes I'd BOMBA him with minimal scares, other times an agonising 50/50 struggle, others a near-instant swatting (mostly down to hesitation, there).

Seems the sort of thing where a safespot would exist. TBH though, after the pit's cringe-making, face-planting fall from game design grace, I was kinda doofin' it to the quick n' dirty clear. I regret nothing.

[LichbannMejolaro]

I just want to say that I love this thread!

It's one of the things (along with my recent discovery of really cool shmups) that brought me to this forum. I read a lot of great posts over here and is always amazing seeing your stories of 1CC'ing games that I had a lot of trouble with as a child, like Shadow Dancer or even the Ninja Gaiden Series.

For myself, as I said on my first post on the forum, I have only 2 "No-death/1CC" completed in my life, in Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne. But I adore 2d side scrolling games, and I'm planning to try to 1CC some of them in the next few months.

One that I tried a bit some time ago was Alien Soldier on Mega Drive, but I always make some stupid mistake that stops me from finishing it. I got to the boss that have multiple phases (7 Force or something is his name) a few times but always choke on the second or third phase. I'll try to use save states to be able to learn better his patterns.

Another game that I want to 1CC is the arcade version of Ghouls'n Ghosts...but I think that will demand much more time, maybe a few months. I may try to do this on Maldita Castilla first, since on my first ever try on that game I got to the 4th stage without even dying, so it may not be that hard to make a No-Miss/1CC on it.

[FinalBaton]

Welcome to the forum LichbannMejolaro, and welcome to this thread

[Immryr]

it's probably worth noting that 1ccing and no death runs are (generally) two different things.

[BIL]

One that I tried a bit some time ago was Alien Soldier on Mega Drive, but I always make some stupid mistake that stops me from finishing it. I got to the boss that have multiple phases (7 Force or something is his name) a few times but always choke on the second or third phase. I'll try to use save states to be able to learn better his patterns.

Seven Force is almost certainly the game's toughest point; if you can beat her, you're well on your way. I won't spoil anything regarding the forms themselves - though some are deadlier than others, all are superbly finessed - but I've gotta say, make sure you pack at least three maxed-out Lancers. Even the less deadly forms can become a slog without that fat reserve of armour-piercing power.

Also, try nabbing those ammo refills mid-fight. Don't bother switching to a fresh Lancer to trigger 'em - the empty-tank "ZeroForce" will do the trick just fine. Get close, light it up, grab the box and resume attack. CounterForce is a lethal asset at a couple points, too. Goddamn, this makes me wanna fire up AS right now - always happens. I never quite settled my score with Act IV's relatively easy, short but thornily unforgiving first phase. At least one Catman always seems to escape my wrath!

[LichbannMejolaro]

it's probably worth noting that 1ccing and no death runs are (generally) two different things.

A "NoDeath" would be equivalent to a "No-Miss"?

[BIL]

A "NoDeath" would be equivalent to a "No-Miss"?

Yeah, exactly. "No Miss" = "No Deaths" = "1LC / One Life Clear."

"Miss" is a quasi-Engrish shorthand for "mistake," if I remember my Japanese gaming lore correctly. I can't recall a specific example offhand, but I know at least a few old JP games bring up an actual "MISS!" blurb if the player dies. That's gonna bug me until I remember, haha.

1CC = "One Credit Clear." Finishing a game (arcade or console) without continuing.

"1-ALL" "2-ALL" "3-ALL" etc usually refers to the loop reached, in games where that's applicable (typically stuff like Gradius).

[LichbannMejolaro]

One that I tried a bit some time ago was Alien Soldier on Mega Drive, but I always make some stupid mistake that stops me from finishing it. I got to the boss that have multiple phases (7 Force or something is his name) a few times but always choke on the second or third phase. I'll try to use save states to be able to learn better his patterns.

Seven Force is almost certainly the game's toughest point; if you can beat her, you're well on your way. I won't spoil anything regarding the forms themselves - though some are deadlier than others, all are superbly finessed - but I've gotta say, make sure you pack at least three maxed-out Lancers. Even the less deadly forms can become a slog without that fat reserve of armour-piercing power.

Also, try nabbing those ammo refills mid-fight. Don't bother switching to a fresh Lancer to trigger 'em - the empty-tank "ZeroForce" will do the trick just fine. Get close, light it up, grab the box and resume attack. CounterForce is a lethal asset at a couple points, too. Goddamn, this makes me wanna fire up AS right now - always happens. I never quite settled my score with Act IV's relatively easy, short but thornily unforgiving first phase. At least one Catman always seems to escape my wrath!

Oh no, you won't be spoiling anything...I've already beaten the game before, but it was about 2 years ago.

But thanks for the tips, anyway. I always try to grab the pickups in the midfight, but sometimes I still miss them.

I hope Cuphead can become the new Alien Soldier. God knows how much the world need a great boss rush run and gun game.

[LichbannMejolaro]

A "NoDeath" would be equivalent to a "No-Miss"?

Yeah, exactly. "No Miss" = "No Deaths" = "1LC / One Life Clear."

"Miss" is a quasi-Engrish shorthand for "mistake," if I remember my Japanese gaming lore correctly. I can't recall a specific example offhand, but I know at least a few old JP games bring up an actual "MISS!" blurb if the player dies. That's gonna bug me until I remember, haha.

1CC = "One Credit Clear." Finishing a game (arcade or console) without continuing.

"1-ALL" "2-ALL" "3-ALL" etc usually refers to the loop reached, in games where that's applicable (typically stuff like Gradius).

Thanks for claryfying, I was a bit confused about the use of "ALL"...I didn't knew it was about loops.

[BrianC]

"Miss" is a quasi-Engrish shorthand for "mistake," if I remember my Japanese gaming lore correctly. I can't recall a specific example offhand, but I know at least a few old JP games bring up an actual "MISS!" blurb if the player dies. That's gonna bug me until I remember, haha.

Many LCD games (mostly Game & Watch) label deaths as "MISS". Hogan's Alley NES/FC also labels deaths as "MISS".

[BIL]

Now that I think back, the most current examples in my memory are actually from game OST tracklists. EG, lots of Konami soundtracks with "PLAYER MISS" jingles. Sometimes romanised as "PLAYER OUT," iirc.

[Sumez]

I hope Cuphead can become the new Alien Soldier. God knows how much the world need a great boss rush run and gun game.

I somehow find this extremely unlikely.

[__SKYe]

I just want to say that I love this thread!

It's one of the things (along with my recent discovery of really cool shmups) that brought me to this forum. I read a lot of great posts over here and is always amazing seeing your stories of 1CC'ing games that I had a lot of trouble with as a child, like Shadow Dancer or even the Ninja Gaiden Series.

Welcome, and rest easy knowing that your love for this thread is very well placed. I always think of it as the pride and joy of Shmups.com's Off-Topic section.
But then again, I came for the STGs but stayed for the Ninja Gaiden & friend (& Contra & beat-em-ups) so I'm very likely biased (I still played them, though).

Many LCD games (mostly Game & Watch) label deaths as "MISS". Hogan's Alley NES/FC also labels deaths as "MISS".

Exactly what I was thinking. Game & Watch are the first thing that come to mind, when I think about "MISS".

[Vanguard]

Just cleared Saigo no Nindou. Tough game, as expected of Irem.

[LichbannMejolaro]

I got the Normal-mode 1CC a couple years back, thought the final boss was a cool and challenging set-piece. I quite like the measured and tactical feel of this game's combat; should return for the higher difficulties.

I really like how the different difficulties represent completely different enemy layouts; they even amusingly change the title of the game to "Shadow Dancer II" for difficulty level 2 and "III" for level 3. I've only ever 1CC'd the default difficulty but I definitely plan to go back eventually. Shame about the easily exploitable bonus stages though. To kind of circumvent that I just don't fire at all during them and collect the 1-up.

I've just finished Shadow Dancer and I'm definitely surprised that indeed that Level 2 and Level 3 indeed works as a whole different game, with new enemy placements and such. Makes me wish that devs nowadays paid attention to these kind of things instead of making harder difficulties just about turning enemies into bullet sponges.

Anyway, about the run, I don't think is a game as hard as I remember. After two resets, I got all the way through 4-2 without dying once. From the stage 5, only the first (with the gunners) and the last (with the black ninjas) gave me a hard time. The final boss is well made...does anyone knows if the boss change in different levels?

I think I'll definitely try to 1cc this really soon. Hell, with the amount of 1 and 2-ups that the game gives you, I'd say that 1cc'ing is not complicated at all.

[LichbannMejolaro]

Just cleared Saigo no Nindou. Tough game, as expected of Irem.

Haven't heard about this game before, but by your video it looks pretty good (I didn't watch all of it to avoid spoilers).

[Vanguard]

Haven't heard about this game before, but by your video it looks pretty good (I didn't watch all of it to avoid spoilers).

It is. A lot of things about it don't line up with my personal preferences (1 hp, cancelling shots is almost always better than dodging, the ninja pit...) but it's extremely well executed. From stage 3 on there's hardly a dull moment. It feels like the kind of game where you could one life clear it and then lose your entire credit on the next try.

Welcome to the forums, btw.

[FinalBaton]

I've just finished Shadow Dancer and I'm definitely surprised that indeed that Level 2 and Level 3 indeed works as a whole different game, with new enemy placements and such. Makes me wish that devs nowadays paid attention to these kind of things instead of making harder difficulties just about turning enemies into bullet sponges.

Yes, i love this about retro games. Some implement this really well, that gives game killer replayability

[mycophobia]

The final boss is well made...does anyone knows if the boss change in different levels?

The bosses get 2 more hp per difficulty level IIRC. So in the final boss's case you have to fight more ninjas.