Prelude to the Apocalypse

[BulletMagnet]

His presence and millions of others like him necessarily changes the composition and culture of the country.

So when he, or anyone else like him, says outright "we're explicitly not here to supplant your culture with our own, we're here because we like your culture and want to embody it within ourselves", he's lying?

[Specineff]

Sure, people can be assholes. Whats new. I would suggest it has far less to do with race and more to do with looking for any opening to troll. Why feed them? They only grow when you do. Fuck'em. Leave them stew.
Also; You are surely not referring to this this forum when you refer to "hateful statements "?

Yes, it has happened here and it was more than just trolling, but as you said, to acknowledge them now is to feed them.

[Mischief Maker]

So many people are saying this it almost feels hack at this point, but it turns out Jared used a private email for government messages.

Lock! him! up?

[Specineff]

Silly Mischief Maker. Don't you know it's okay and legal to do that as long they click their heels together and say it's for MAGA?

[Rob]

So when he, or anyone else like him, says outright "we're explicitly not here to supplant your culture with our own, we're here because we like your culture and want to embody it within ourselves", he's lying?

He acknowledges that Muslims create Muslim nations, but can't make the connection between him being here and any effect that might have on our country. If you and I and a million other Americans relocated to any other country, we would have an impact on that country and culture no matter how noble our intentions. The change would probably be imperceptible if there was a tiny group of Muslims in America, but we are well beyond that point. We can see the damage that even greater concentrations have had in England and Germany and France.

[BulletMagnet]

He acknowledges that Muslims create Muslim nations, but can't make the connection between him being here and any effect that might have on our country. If you and I and a million other Americans relocated to any other country, we would have an impact on that country and culture no matter how noble our intentions.

Wait, so first your argument is "Muslims don't want to integrate", but when presented with evidence that a good amount of them do want to do so, it becomes "Even if they want to and make a determination to, they just can't help themselves?" So I assume you're utterly horrified by the litany of Italian/Irish/German/etc. (even before you get into Puerto Ricans et al...who, as it happens, may be increasingly on their way to the mainland in the coming days, ironically enough, if Trump treats them as he's likely wont to do) festivals, parades, church denominations and so forth, as these groups openly and proudly declare their abject refusal to integrate as they chip away at the bedrock of American culture? "Pittsburgh, not Paris", amirite?

I'm not sure exactly what you expect of Muslims and other nonwhite immigrants; you're clearly applying a completely different standard for "integration" to them than you are to everyone else.

The change would probably be imperceptible if there was a tiny group of Muslims in America, but we are well beyond that point.

From the afore-linked op-ed:

According a 2015 Pew Research Center Poll, only 1 percent (3.3 million) of Americans are Muslim. New Jersey has the highest concentration of Muslims (3-4 percent), followed by New York and Arkansas (2-3 percent). Twenty-four states' Muslim population is less than 1 percent.

And:

According to an August 2017 Pew Research Center poll, only 43 percent of Muslim Americans attend mosque weekly. Underscoring Muslims' hunger for integration, the same poll found that 82 percent of Muslims in America are U.S. citizens, and 89 percent are proud to be both Muslim and American.

I dunno, I'm tempted to guess The Greatest Country On Earth can handle it, so long as we're not too busy shrieking at our own shadows.

So many people are saying this it almost feels hack at this point, but it turns out Jared used a private email for government messages.

So did Ivanka and a bunch of others, but eh, whatever - disqualifying shmishqualifying.

[Rob]

My argument is that they are unassimilable.

So I assume you're utterly horrified by the litany of Italian/Irish/German/etc. ... festivals, parades, church denominations and so forth

Celebrations and remnants of European culture in a nation founded by and for Europeans - no, can't say I'm too surprised or upset.

[Durandal]

So I assume you're utterly horrified by the litany of Italian/Irish/German/etc. ... festivals, parades, church denominations and so forth

Celebrations and remnants of European culture in a nation founded by and for Europeans - no, can't say I'm too surprised or upset.

You should've been aware how easy it is to (mis)interpret this post as not minding the mass immigration of any culture as long as it's 'European' and that immigration would only be a bad thing if Muslims are involved, and made a further clarification whether that is or isn't the case

Setting aside the treatment of those damned micks and wops in early 20th century America, last time I heard the British were incredibly overjoyed with the mass influx of Polish guestworkers, because the Polish are fellow Europeans and all

[Zen]

So I assume you're utterly horrified by the litany of Italian/Irish/German/etc. festivals, parades, church denominations and so forth, as these groups openly and proudly declare their abject refusal to integrate as they chip away at the bedrock of American culture?

See, its this type post that makes me wonder whether you are entirely serious and not just randomly flinging the apologist rhetoric of relativism for amusement.

You should've been aware how easy it is to (mis)interpret this post as not minding the mass immigration of any culture as long as it's 'European' and that immigration would only be a bad thing if Muslims are involved, and made a further clarification whether that is or isn't the case

How is this sentence not clear? The man has been wrongly accused of avoiding straight answers. He gives one and is immediately blamed for other peoples possible interpretations/misinterpretations of his straight answer

[brokenhalo]

I'm sure the native americans loved the europe-ication of their beloved homeland. Lets run some more oil pipes through their living rooms until they like it.

"It's not bad if it's my preferred sub-group that is doing it!"

America4americans.jpg

[Durandal]

You should've been aware how easy it is to (mis)interpret this post as not minding the mass immigration of any culture as long as it's 'European' and that immigration would only be a bad thing if Muslims are involved, and made a further clarification whether that is or isn't the case

How is this sentence not clear? The man has been wrongly accused of avoiding straight answers. He gives one and is immediately blamed for other peoples possible interpretations/misinterpretations of his straight answer

It's not that it is an evasive answer (evasive answers would include ignoring most of the brought-up points or responding with some random reaction image), but that it's merely incomplete and we're left wasting time by inquiring into the-supposedly-obvious-things-which-evidently-don't-bear-repeating

[Zen]

It's not that it is an evasive answer (evasive answers would include ignoring most of the brought-up points or responding with some random reaction image), but that it's merely incomplete and we're left wasting time by inquiring into the-supposedly-obvious-things-which-evidently-don't-bear-repeating

This is just more of the circular logic that I pointed out in my post and that is on gross display in this thread. Your interpretation of evasion seems to be quite the subjective hurdle to forward moving conversation.

(evasive answers would include ignoring most of the brought-up points or responding with some random reaction image)

Am I on the magic "evasion list" now as well?
Just ask direct and specific questions for pity's sake. You will get a direct answer.

I think, Durandal, that you know exactly what the man said and what the man meant with his answer. All obfuscation after the fact, is on you.

[Durandal]

It's not that it is an evasive answer (evasive answers would include ignoring most of the brought-up points or responding with some random reaction image), but that it's merely incomplete and we're left wasting time by inquiring into the-supposedly-obvious-things-which-evidently-don't-bear-repeating

This is just more of the circular logic that I pointed out in my post and that is on gross display in this thread

Is there a reason why you won't explain why that is such an example of circular logic? Or why BulletMagnet's aforementioned example is such blatant relativism? Don't just diagnose the disease, treat it as well.

(evasive answers would include ignoring most of the brought-up points or responding with some random reaction image)

Am I on the magic "evasion list" now as well?
Just ask direct and specific questions for pity's sake. You will get a direct answer.

remain functional and identifiably American.

why does this matter

Arigato gozaimasu. But a .gif of some general really didn't answer my question at all.

I think, Durandal, that you know exactly what the man said and what the man meant with his answer. All obfuscation after the fact, is on you.

I know what he said, I wanted him to elaborate on it because I do not believe any kind of mass influx of European refugees in the USA would assimilate more smoothly somehow. Poles in the UK have a rather poor reputation because they "steal jobs", Irish and Italian immigrants were still stereotyped as criminals despite their European culture, and back in the 80's there were some cases of anti-Asian hate crime in the USA as a response to the increasing market share of Japanese car imports beating out American-made cars which then resulted in layoffs in motor plants.

I misspoke when I mentioned that his post was misinterpretable, I meant to say that I don't believe the full extent of what he broadly implies to believe.

Feel free to ignore all this, because I really don't feel like going into meta discussions like these which just derail the actual topic and discussion at hand while never getting anywhere.

[Mischief Maker]

Feel free to ignore all this, because I really don't feel like going into meta discussions like these which just derail the actual topic and discussion at hand while never getting anywhere.

Welcome to the passive-aggressive debating style of the alt-light.

"People are saying the mud races are subhuman."

"Dude, that kind of racism coming from you is not cool."

"Gasp! You're totally misinterpreting me! I don't share those racist views, I'm just saying 'people' are saying them. How dare you accuse me of supporting the viewpoints that I'm constantly drawing attention to in a supportive, but carefully non-committal, light?!!"

[Rob]

I misspoke when I mentioned that his post was misinterpretable, I meant to say that I don't believe the full extent of what he broadly implies to believe.

I suppose it was misinterpretable, because I never expressed a belief that Europeans should feel obligated to sacrifice their unique cultures, or not protect their quality of life from any group of people, whether Muslim or European. America was broadly northwestern European in origin. Americans were wise in cautiously broadening the scope to include other regions. We will never know how well that has worked out since we declared it a success in the 1960s and opened the gates for every other country in the world, which has resulted in the disunity we have today.

alt-light

Them's fighting words.

[Mischief Maker]

I guess cultural diversification isn't threatening to me because I wanted to be Indiana Jones when I was growing up, not Ward Cleaver.

[Rob]

Other cultures are neat - best to preserve them by not mixing them all together. Also helps keep the peace.

[BulletMagnet]

My argument is that they are unassimilable.

Considering that I and others keep presenting both personal testimonials and empirical evidence that Muslims (or, in light of the mosque-going statistics from my previous post, "immigrants from Muslim countries") are just as "assimilable" as any other such group, what, precisely, is your argument based on?

Celebrations and remnants of European culture in a nation founded by and for Europeans - no, can't say I'm too surprised or upset.

As others have once again brought out, a lot of the European immigrant sub-sets that don't raise an eyebrow these days were getting reactions like yours to Muslims not very long ago; frankly, the same goes for most any non-European group, since from Jim Crow to the Know-Nothing party to Japanese internment camps, every single instance of "well, sure, all the previous ones managed to assimilate fine in the end, but this one - this one is where we must draw the line!" has ended up a historical laughingstock. So I ask you the same question as the "tax cuts for rich people will pay for themselves" die-hards; without a single success story to fall back on decades or centuries later, what makes you so convinced that this time is really it?

We will never know how well that has worked out since we declared it a success in the 1960s and opened the gates for every other country in the world, which has resulted in the disunity we have today.

So the "disunity" you speak of is simply the result of these "others" just being there, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the ceaseless and almost entirely baseless scaremongering and demonization that has been tirelessly employed by "our" culture (again, however you happen to define it for the moment) in order to keep the electorate terrified and the coffers full? C'mon, Rob, you're not that damned stupid.

[Mischief Maker]

My argument is that they are unassimilable.

Considering that I and others keep presenting both personal testimonials and empirical evidence that Muslims (or, in light of the mosque-going statistics from my previous post, "immigrants from Muslim countries") are just as "assimilable" as any other such group,

Oh BulletMagnet, don't you understand that your empirical evidence doesn't count because someone on Breitbart declared it "not serious?"

Besides, certain cultures are made up of genetically inferior people who lack the cognitive capacity to assimilate into modern society. It's scientific!

[Rob]

what makes you so convinced that this time is really it?

Um, let's see - Muslim-majority nations and the damage their colonizers do in every western country they infest. And we have past/ongoing examples of unsuccessful integration.

[jonny5]

What the actual fuck?!?

I step out for a while and come back to see people openly spouting xenophobic white supremacist sentiment on shmups forum? Dafuq?

Have you ever even met a Muslim person in real life Rob?

I am honestly sick just reading the last couple pages of this thread. Fuck

[BryanM]

Take a trip back to the past and enjoy page 7. A better time, prior to the instrumentality project. Where the racists had 15% more class.

Before we had to live in Trump's America, a boring shithole where everything is always about Trump. Protest anything, and suddenly it's about the flag and Trump and Jesus somehow. A dumbass distraction to make his cattle angry at clouds.

I'm frankly sick of hearing this shit. Can we look toward the future and leave the dinosaurs who hate dancing in the past?

Sanders and Klobuchar had a healthcare debate on CNN. They went "hey, Medicare is a somewhat popular government program" and their opposition went "but Cuba red scare Venezuala mah bribes" and then they countered with "no, Canada, Denmark, England, human lives" and won the argument.

I'm depressed as shit that Joe Biden is going to try to stop this from happening. And that he has a very high chance of succeeding.

How many people here tried to stop Trump from winning by voting for Sanders in the primary, anyway?


(And I am STILL shocked that those horrible comments about Jeb's family on his ad are still fucking there 2 years later. That's their campaign's official account! What the hell is wrong with them?!)

[Rob]

I am honestly sick just reading the last couple pages of this thread.

I'm sorry my words made you sick, but I'm more concerned about things like the Tennessee church shooting the other day, where a mother of 4 was shot to death because we needed a Sudanese immigrant to come here and be a security guard (as no one else already here could possibly fill that job).

[Rob]

Somali Muslims on free speech, violent retribution and assimilation. I'm sure that those who rolled out the red carpet for them will never be seen as "historical laughingstocks".

[DEL]

Rob, you've gotta realise that out of the two ISTS - the Islamists and Zionists. One of them owns all the banks, all the media, all the politicians at the top and thereby all the armed forces, all the secret services, all the police and all the emergency services. This IST also owns most of the mega corps and institutions too. Across the whole Western World.

There are two types of warfare - The standard physical warfare fought by soldiers, tanks, subs etc. The second type is psychological warfare, waged through the Media.
Now figure out which IST owns everything listed above and you have your answer to everything.

[jonny5]

That's right DEL, it's actually the Jews we need to fear...What is this, fucking Stormfront?

And Rob, you didn't answer my question. Have you ever actually met a Muslim person in real life?

Man, this place has always been open to political conversation and people speaking their minds, but the stuff I'm seeing in this thread is terrible.

You put a racist moron in as president and all of a sudden angry white dudes think they can start expressing themselves and making racist comments without repercussions. Don't worry, the rest of your country will be there to smack you back to reality and remind you it's 2017. These racist xenophobes don't seem to realize they are the minority, and the rest of your country is embarrassed for and by you.

Give your heads a shake, man! Your country is coming apart at the seams just fine without blaming Muslims. Maybe start deporting your cops if you want to feel safe? But hey, if you're white, status quo is ok too, right?

[Xyga]

What is this, fucking Stormfront?

#shmupsfront, or #shmupsreich.

If you have read only a couple of pages back, try more...if you have a strong stomach.

You've been here longer than me it shouldn't be that big a surprise that this community is friendly to these people and their ideas by policy, even if it's untold.

Threads such as this one have only one purpose which is neither debating nor existing for the sake of freedom of speech of which very principle they completely corrupt and betray with their ideas to begin: no, the purpose is to make internet space for them to spread their venom because whatever horrors they say won't be moderated, and also to disgust people like you and me who'd give up and eventually stop coming. Trust me, opposing them here is pointless, we're ony feeding them.

[Zen]

Give your heads a shake, man! Your country is coming apart at the seams just fine without blaming Muslims. Maybe start deporting your cops if you want to feel safe? But hey, if you're white, status quo is ok too, right?

So more Muslim immigrants - deport the police and is it fair to read that ending as a quick "fuck whitey" or do I misunderstand? What could possibly go wrong?

#shmupsfront, or #shmupsreich.

If you have read only a couple of pages back, try more...if you have a strong stomach.

You've been here longer than me it shouldn't be that big a surprise that this community is friendly to these people and their ideas by policy, even if it's untold.

Threads such as this one have only one purpose which is neither debating nor existing for the sake of freedom of speech of which very principle they completely corrupt and betray with their ideas to begin: no, the purpose is to make internet space for them to spread their venom because whatever horrors they say won't be moderated, and also to disgust people like you and me who'd give up and eventually stop coming. Trust me, opposing them here is pointless, we're ony feeding them.

I accept that you are extreme in your interpretations, Xyga but the wanton falsehood that you promote, that this forum has an unspoken code of accommodation and purposeful goal of promotion, of what you call "#shmupsfront, or #shmupsreich.", is beyond the pale.
Shameful.

[BryanM]

Some entertaining observations of the terrible propaganda war.

Every time the lanyards push consolidation of federal data centers, I bleed a little more out of my ears and eyes.

[Giest118]

If all that nazis do is shit around on the internet talking about whether the principals of evolution apply to humans, are they really that bad?

I mean, okay, periodically they drive cars into crowds. But muslims also periodically do that. Therefore, nazis are muslims. So if you assume muslims are cool, that means nazis are also cool.

QED.