Ypbpr (composite) signal in b/w on sony bvm 20f1e.

[Kyranio]

Hello!

I once posted about syncing issues of the same unit.
I still cannot get a stable picture with RGB inputs, it is all out of sync.

I tried every option in the menu, I even resetted every possible thing to it's factory settings.

I keep looking online for an answer, but I can't find anything. And if I do, those posts usually end with no real answer.


So I tried connecting something to the Green input, with a yellow composite cable. And after fiddling around the menu I actually got a stable image.

I was very happy, yet the picture was (and still is) in black and white.

So I resetted, modified and searched f****** ages for anything that might get me just one step closer to a damned solution.

A billion options later, still a b/w screen.
RGB is still a giant fail.

I am starting to regret my purchase...

Does anyone (please) know a solution?
Every forum I visit ends in a nice ol' "I have the same problem, any answers?", or a good ol' "I tried everything but still no luck..."...

Thanks in advance.

[nmalinoski]

Hello!

I once posted about syncing issues of the same unit.
I still cannot get a stable picture with RGB inputs, it is all out of sync.

I tried every option in the menu, I even resetted every possible thing to it's factory settings.

I keep looking online for an answer, but I can't find anything. And if I do, those posts usually end with no real answer.


So I tried connecting something to the Green input, with a yellow composite cable. And after fiddling around the menu I actually got a stable image.

I was very happy, yet the picture was (and still is) in black and white.

So I resetted, modified and searched f****** ages for anything that might get me just one step closer to a damned solution.

A billion options later, still a b/w screen.
RGB is still a giant fail.

I am starting to regret my purchase...

Does anyone (please) know a solution?
Every forum I visit ends in a nice ol' "I have the same problem, any answers?", or a good ol' "I tried everything but still no luck..."...

Thanks in advance.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like your BVM is expecting YPbPr, and you're feeding it RGBS; and the reason you're getting a black-and-white image is because your BVM is expecting luma on Y, and then color on Pb and Pr. It's getting luma from the CVBS signal, but it can't get any color information because Pb and Pr are disconnected.

I'm not familiar with BVMs; can you switch the input type from YPbPr to RGB, and then toggle on external sync?

[AndehX]

Have you gone into Input Configuration and changed the Format to RGB? If it was on RGB, you wouldn't be getting a B/W image on the green input. It should have been green with a rolling image since the sync signal is on a separate input.



I'm also slightly confused by your original question. Are you trying to get colour to work on your composite video? Or are you actually trying to get a picture via RGBS?
If it is indeed Composite that you are trying to use, then in Input Configuration, you need to change it to Composite instead of RGB

[Fudoh]

As AndehX pointed out: you're not exactly clear about your setup.

When you got a stable image on the "G" input, what was your source ?

A b/w image through a single cable basically means luma works fine and so does the internal sync. If you none of your source work with external sync, then the first thing to blame is the cable. RGBs breakout are directional. If you purchase them for one direction, you can't use them the other way around.

So, detail you setup along with your sources and cables and somebody will figure this out.

[Kyranio]

Sorry, I thought YPbPr was Composite... Derp.
(And with composite, I mean the yellow cable of the red, white and yellow cable combination most consoles use).

Ill just call it the yellow cable.

I plugged the yellow cable into the "green" input port on the normal board, and on a 21D board (I think it's a 21D board, it has 3 analog ports and RGB ports without a sync port).
On both cards, I get a stable image. But it is in black and white.

I tried setting the format to RGB, but that only makes the screen green... (since the cable is connected to the green input port).
If I then hook it up to another port, like the Blue port, the screen will be blue and out of sync.

So the screen is getting sync on green.

On the format setting, I tried every setting that was possible.

I also tried to set every possible setting in the Maintenance menu (where you can set the boards themselves), to any possible value. But I never got color to work with composite (yellow cable).
I tried doing the same while I had a Gamecube connected through RGB (scart to BNC cable), and even though I can get three colours on screen (RGB), the image will not be synced.
Sync mode set to internal, or external, RGB won't sync and Composite (yellow cable) will be in b/w.

I hope it's more understandable now...

[Kyranio]

PS:

Everything works fine on another PVM I have next to the BVM.

So, if I connect the Scart to BNC cable on that thing, everything syncs just fine.
Aswell as composite signals, they will be in color, and synced fine. (Using those little adapter thingys that makes a Composite (yellow) cable BNC... if you get me)

PPS:

Really sorry for my English, I am Dutch and even though I speak English almost daily I can always improve :/

[Kyranio]

Edit: I just tried to use the scart to BNC cable on that other PVM monitor I was talking about, and it turns out it does not work properly. But it is synced however...
It just does not show any green.

[AndehX]

It sounds to me like the monitor is set to PAL or NTSC (whichever one your console is not outputting) Im pretty sure theres a setting somewhere for that. It definitely sounds like a PAL/NTSC thing to me though.

[Fudoh]

next step would be to try a component source (three cables, internal sync) to check if you get color with that.

Do you have any component sources ?

So far it sounds like normal behaviour except for the color decoder. As AndehX said: Your 21D board only has a NTSC color decoder, so only native NTSC systems would show color through composite. Modded PAL systems (PAL60) or genuine PAL Systems (PAL50) wouldn't work.

What was your composite source ?

[Kyranio]

next step would be to try a component source (three cables, internal sync) to check if you get color with that.

Do you have any component sources ?

So far it sounds like normal behaviour except for the color decoder. As AndehX said: Your 21D board only has a NTSC color decoder, so only native NTSC systems would show color through composite. Modded PAL systems (PAL60) or genuine PAL Systems (PAL50) wouldn't work.

What was your composite source ?

The composite source I used was a PAL gamecube... I think it was set on 50hz. I tried setting it to 60 but the screen that allowed me to do that didn't show up anymore...
Also, when I plug in my NES (pal) with a yellow composite cable, the same way I hooked up the gamecube, it wouldn't sync/show a picture.

I am not 100% sure that this board is the 21D board, someone once told me it was. Where can you check what board it is?

I'll test the NES on the stock board aswell. (The one that is hooked up to the electron gun inside the unit, with the little electricity warning sticker on the bottom).

[Kyranio]

next step would be to try a component source (three cables, internal sync) to check if you get color with that.

Do you have any component sources ?

So far it sounds like normal behaviour except for the color decoder. As AndehX said: Your 21D board only has a NTSC color decoder, so only native NTSC systems would show color through composite. Modded PAL systems (PAL60) or genuine PAL Systems (PAL50) wouldn't work.

What was your composite source ?

The composite source I used was a PAL gamecube... I think it was set on 50hz. I tried setting it to 60 but the screen that allowed me to do that didn't show up anymore...
Also, when I plug in my NES (pal) with a yellow composite cable, the same way I hooked up the gamecube, it wouldn't sync/show a picture.

I am not 100% sure that this board is the 21D board, someone once told me it was. Where can you check what board it is?

I'll test the NES on the stock board aswell. (The one that is hooked up to the electron gun inside the unit, with the little electricity warning sticker on the bottom).

EDIT: I have just noticed (like the noob I am with BVM units) that the current format is set in Component. The composite formats are marked blue... (I can't select them for some reason).

[Fudoh]

the part nr. of the expansion board is printed on the upper end above the connections (or maybe it was at the bottom instead, but I'm pretty sure that it would say 21D somethere on the back).

[Kyranio]

the part nr. of the expansion board is printed on the upper end above the connections (or maybe it was at the bottom instead, but I'm pretty sure that it would say 21D somethere on the back).

I just found a sticker on the back side of the board, it's a 20D board.
Explains why it wouldn't sync my pal nes...

[Fudoh]

OK, so you got no composite decoders in your BVM, but we still need to resolve that RGB issue.

You're positive that your source is genuine RGB, not just composite over scart, right ? Because composite over scart would work (in b/w), simply because it doesn't use the sync line in the first place.

[Kyranio]

OK, so you got no composite decoders in your BVM, but we still need to resolve that RGB issue.

You're positive that your source is genuine RGB, not just composite over scart, right ? Because composite over scart would work (in b/w), simply because it doesn't use the sync line in the first place.

If I am correct, a pal gamecube can (like any gamecube) output RGB. If you have the right cable that is.
The cable I bought, was made for NTSC consoles, so I had to desolder some capacitors because whenever I used that cable with any of the consoles that work with it, there wouldn't be a picture.
After desoldering the capacitors though, everything seemed to work fine on the PVM monitor...

Yesterday I tried to hook the RGB cables up to the PVM again, but the screen was all dark and sometimes green and such...
I tried every option on the PVM aswell, but perhaps my cable failed.

--- TESTED THE CABLE JUST NOW ---

The cable works on the PVM.
I hooked up my SNES with the PVM using the same cable I used with the gamecube.
Strangely the SNES doesn't output any picture unless sound is connected too...

[Kyranio]

So I hooked my SNES up with my PVM like I said, but for some reason the PVM doesn't show any picture until it receives sound aswell.
When I connect the RGB and Sync cables to the BVM,
Then set the input format to RGB, plus making sure it is set to the right input board (not the 20D board, but the one directly attached to the electron gun PCB),
The picture will be purple.
It will contain 3 big purple lines going vertical, and a lot of "out-of-sync" wiggling as I will call it.

Here is a horrible vertical video I just made showing the problem:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0QT5nQtckqE

[Fudoh]

And you're using this very same coupler construct on your PVM and you get a stable image ?

It's definitely a grounding issue or an issue with the direction.

You're using a Scart coupler, which means that your adapter cable has a male scart header. These are usually wired for BNC to Scart, not the other way around. But if this very cable combo works for you on the PVM, it's a just a plain connection or grounding problem. The PVM might be happy with ground from the audio connects, while the BVM doesn't have these to rely upon.

Get a proper FEMALE Scart to BNC breakout cable and your problem will be fixed.

[Kyranio]

And you're using this very same coupler construct on your PVM and you get a stable image ?

It's definitely a grounding issue or an issue with the direction.

You're using a Scart coupler, which means that your adapter cable has a male scart header. These are usually wired for BNC to Scart, not the other way around. But if this very cable combo works for you on the PVM, it's a just a plain connection or grounding problem. The PVM might be happy with ground from the audio connects, while the BVM doesn't have these to rely upon.

Get a proper FEMALE Scart to BNC breakout cable and your problem will be fixed.

Alright, I will.
Thanks.

If I have any issues after that I will reply once more... If not, thank you very much!

[Kyranio]

And you're using this very same coupler construct on your PVM and you get a stable image ?

It's definitely a grounding issue or an issue with the direction.

You're using a Scart coupler, which means that your adapter cable has a male scart header. These are usually wired for BNC to Scart, not the other way around. But if this very cable combo works for you on the PVM, it's a just a plain connection or grounding problem. The PVM might be happy with ground from the audio connects, while the BVM doesn't have these to rely upon.

Get a proper FEMALE Scart to BNC breakout cable and your problem will be fixed.

Hey, I got the correct cable and you were right, I am getting a better response.
But I am still not getting a clear picture, and I am afraid that this is actually do to something not functioning well on the PCB.
But just to be sure I recorded it and uploaded it to youtube:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rgYeTSXg4zU

[Fudoh]

Hmm, that's really hard to pinpoint. Do you have the possibility of testing a YUV signal ? If you don't have a console, maybe you got a DVD player around that got a component output ?

Since we had composite working in b/w, trying a YUV signal with internal sync would be the next logical step.

[Kyranio]

Hmm, that's really hard to pinpoint. Do you have the possibility of testing a YUV signal ? If you don't have a console, maybe you got a DVD player around that got a component output ?

Since we had composite working in b/w, trying a YUV signal with internal sync would be the next logical step.

The composite signal was working on the 20D board, but this is the board with the RGBS ports (RGB and Sync)...
I do have a DVD player with component, I'll see what it does when I hook that up to the monitor.

[Kyranio]

Hmm, that's really hard to pinpoint. Do you have the possibility of testing a YUV signal ? If you don't have a console, maybe you got a DVD player around that got a component output ?

Since we had composite working in b/w, trying a YUV signal with internal sync would be the next logical step.

Alright, tried to hook the DVD player to the monitor using YUV cables, and ports.
No luck, just a blank black screen.

But, I then got the Idea to try another device using Scart out, a TV tuner, and it works!
Color, synced image, no weird borders...

But my SNES does not work. I'll try and see if it works with other devices.
Thank you anyways!

The solution was the cable.

[AndehX]

I remember having similar issues with a SNES on a friends PVM. I rewired his SCART cable to sync-on-luma and it seemed to fix the issue. Maybe try that?

[Kyranio]

I remember having similar issues with a SNES on a friends PVM. I rewired his SCART cable to sync-on-luma and it seemed to fix the issue. Maybe try that?

What end of the SCART cable did you open, the SCART plug or the multi-out plug?
I tried looking up "rewire scart sync on luma" and such on Google, but I couldn't find anything else but some plumber videos and a forum post where a guy just tells someone to rewire pin 3, to pin 9 on the multi-out wire...

But I wasn't able to break open the Multi-out part, it's glued stuck or something... Eventually I cut myself, so how did you do that?

[AndehX]

I remember having similar issues with a SNES on a friends PVM. I rewired his SCART cable to sync-on-luma and it seemed to fix the issue. Maybe try that?

What end of the SCART cable did you open, the SCART plug or the multi-out plug?
I tried looking up "rewire scart sync on luma" and such on Google, but I couldn't find anything else but some plumber videos and a forum post where a guy just tells someone to rewire pin 3, to pin 9 on the multi-out wire...

But I wasn't able to break open the Multi-out part, it's glued stuck or something... Eventually I cut myself, so how did you do that?

multi-out end, yes. I believe you need to move the wire from pin 9, to pin 7 (the pin directly next to pin 9)

[Ward1986]

Does your card have loop-through? If so you need to terminate the 'OUT' connectors with 75 ohm BNC termination plugs