The Sega Mega Drive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

[OmegaFlareX]

All the really dire stuff came out of the west.

I feel this is video gaming in general until the mid 2000s, really. There are, of course, a few exceptions - computer RPGs/adventure games/DOOM, Rare Inc, NBA Jam, a glut of Famicom JP-only shovelware, etc.

The vast majority of good games were Japanese. Especially in arcades, where it seems overwhelmingly so. This makes me seem like a weeb, but am I wrong?

[BIL]

Glad I wasn't totally off my rocker there.

It's real:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Seas-Havoc ... SwM6NZrBPE

I've seen several other boards on ebay over the years (from Korean sellers iirc). This seller is probably trying to flip one of those for like 6x the price.

Interesting, thanks! I wonder if it's been dumped. Would like to see if there are any differences in content, as the MD game is quite lenient with extends and I could imagine some of the hidden 1ups were removed for an arcade release.

This is something I like to think about WRT to stuff like Contra Spirits and Gimmick. They're both very generous with extends, and bombs in the former's case - but were you to dial those parameters back, and slap on a simple time limit, both could go straight into a cab. (incidentally, Spirits' ROM actually contains Konami's standard JAMMA region warning, unused... might be nothing, but I find that fascinating, especially with it being the series' console-original debut)

Although it might sound inelegant on paper, in practice I really like this method of balancing. A nice fat extend cushion caters to casuals, while more enthusiast players can go for low/no-miss runs; both camps can co-exist with none of the traditional expense to the other. Ain't subtle, but it works.

[WelshMegalodon]

The vast majority of good games were Japanese. Especially in arcades, where it seems overwhelmingly so. This makes me seem like a weeb, but am I wrong?

computer RPGs/adventure games/DOOM

Being that you're dismissing entire genres of games (almost supergenres, in the case of "RPGs") as "a few exceptions" and conveniently ignoring mountains of Japan-exclusive licensed trash*, I'd have to say yes. Japan does seem to have produced most of the console and arcade classics, though.

*And/or a shit-ton of bad eroge, depending on whether or not you're into that sort of thing.

[Turrican]

How much am I supposed to shell out for an US cib Havoc in good condition these days?

It's one of the few Data East I'm missing on the system, and since I got SMS Silver, might as well get the captains together...

[Heavy Viper]

Was torn on whether to post this in "Awesome Stuff" or in here, but either way, it's a good day.

Spoiler

Took a punt on a jMD1 in a batch put up by a FB seller, and wouldn't you know it, I've landed a VA4 board. One of the best ones for audio, IIRC! Given my chiptune proclivities, it seems I've won the lottery. :>

EDIT: Found the catch -- something is up with the headphone jack. Audio comes out EXTREMELY loud and distorted, turning any set of headphones into loudspeakers. Volume slider does nothing. Never lucky!

[Vanguard]

I feel this is video gaming in general until the mid 2000s, really. There are, of course, a few exceptions - computer RPGs/adventure games/DOOM, Rare Inc, NBA Jam, a glut of Famicom JP-only shovelware, etc.

The vast majority of good games were Japanese. Especially in arcades, where it seems overwhelmingly so. This makes me seem like a weeb, but am I wrong?

I think the 90s were the best decade for western games and that they've declined tremendously starting around the turn of the millennium. But yes, the Japanese are and always have been the best video game developers.

[BrianC]

Many of the better early arcade games came from the west and some were a huge influence on Japanese games. Arkanoid wouldn't have existed if it wasn't for Breakout and Super Breakout. One of the better Pac-Man games, Ms. Pac-Man, started out as a US designed hack of Pac-Man.

[Vanguard]

Westerners have made some great games and some great contributions to the development of gaming. But from the NES era onwards, Japanese games have always been better.

[EmperorIng]

Reminds me of the time when EA consistently hit it out of the park.

The Immortal... man, now that is a game. A game for stout-hearted adventurers, man.

Spoiler

[Ruldra]

If we're talking old EA, then Budokan also deserves a mention. A fantastic game for its time.

Spoiler

[FinalBaton]

Speaking of EA : how is Blades of Vengeance? Is it decent?

Searching for action sidrscrollers/platformers made me realize that there's a bunch of them on the Genesis I want to try but still haven't gotten around to playing :
Wonderboy in Monster World, Monsterworld IV, Cadash, Alyssia Dragoon, Valis III, Ex-Ranza, Mystic Defender, Decap-Attack, Kid Chameleon... I need to pick up the slack, lol

And on Sega-CD : Popful Mail and Anette Futatabi

[OmegaFlareX]

Speaking of EA : how is Blades of Vengeance? Is it decent?

Aussie twitch streamer with a fondness for hack-n-slash games showed it off recently:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/173217867?t=04h25m41s

Verdict: it's good. A rare example of a good western console game.

e: to touch on this from earlier:

I think the 90s were the best decade for western games and that they've declined tremendously starting around the turn of the millennium.

It seems like since the 2000s, the vast majority of good stuff has been western. Elder Scrolls, World of Warcraft, Bioshock, Just Cause, HL2, Portal 1 & 2, GTA, etc. etc. And those are just examples of stuff I've actually played, there's a lot more out there that I haven't. Maybe my view is biased because I've been PC-only for quite a while? I dunno, it really seems like western games is currently in a bit of a renaissance and has been for over a decade. This may be due to heavy influence by JP retro games.

I'm trying to think of top-tier Japanese stuff in recent years. The Souls games, for sure. Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy are still getting games (FF14 2.0 has been a good alternative to WoW, even), but to mixed success. Splatoon, Zelda and other Nintendo properties are a given. Again, this is mostly console stuff. I haven't bought a console since PS2 (I have a Wii but it was a gift and I rarely played it). From everything I've read, the JP industry has mostly turned towards mobile platforms.

[BryanM]

Ya. It's kind of weird that the next big thing was mobile, and FF6 fans flocked to stuff like Grindblue Fantasy.

How awesome these games would be if they were made for a horizontal aspect ratio and a big screen. That Fire Emblem Heroes thing looks so half assed compared to what it coulda been.

The vast majority of good games were Japanese. Especially in arcades, where it seems overwhelmingly so. This makes me seem like a weeb, but am I wrong?

Maybe half and half. Like others have said, the pc market is not just a rare exception, and the west has overwhelmingly dominated it. I actually kind of dread playing a Japanese written PC game.

The console market... we have to blame on the management incompetence of Atari. They had no idea what they were doing and gave the entire industry away.

Nintendo invested in their own brand, their games, creating characters their customers could identity and develop an attachment to. Atari never invested in their games, treated their developers like shit, and really had no reason to continue to exist. Which is what happens when you have people who don't care about their product in charge of a company - empty suits only interested in squeezing all the blood out of a turnip so as to maximize their own personal intake of cocaine and hookers.

Gauntlet, at least, could have been a bit more than it was left as. Were there any others? A sane company interested in being around in 10 years, would have at least a couple dozen games with franchise potential, really...

The Immortal... man, now that is a game. A game for stout-hearted adventurers, man.

It has one of the best anime music videos on the youtube.

[Mortificator]

The Immortal... man, now that is a game. A game for stout-hearted adventurers, man.

It has one of the best anime music videos on the youtube.

Nice aesthetic. Are the deaths avoidable, or is it trial & error?

[BryanM]

It's a puzzle game so more trial and error.

There's definitely no way you'd be able to beat the final stage on one's first try. I remember seeing that sequence as a kid on the GamePro TV show and being impressed at how obtuse it seemed.

[BrianC]

Atari never invested in their games, treated their developers like shit, and really had no reason to continue to exist. Which is what happens when you have people who don't care about their product in charge of a company - empty suits only interested in squeezing all the blood out of a turnip so as to maximize their own personal intake of cocaine and hookers.

Gauntlet, at least, could have been a bit more than it was left as. Were there any others? A sane company interested in being around in 10 years, would have at least a couple dozen games with franchise potential, really...

There were two different Ataris at the time Gauntlet (which was made by Atari Games) came out. Atari Corp, which mostly dealt with consoles and home computers, and Atari Games, what was left of the original Atari that made arcade games and some home games under the name Tengen. I keep hearing both referred to as simply "Atari", despite how they were two different companies. I also heard that the home and arcade divisions of Atari were usually kept separate, even before they separated into two different companies.

[BryanM]

Yeah, it was the competent subdivision of the company that actually made money and lived on for another 10 extra years. Maybe it is cruel they're associated whatsoever with things like the ET debacle.

"Atari" today is just a franchise name that one rents for their doomed business idea before being passed around to the next guy trying to make a buck. Frankly it's more of a disadvantage than anything else, since one knows that any game released under the label probably isn't worth investing your time or money into.

Who here is excited about that Atari Box? Anyone? It has wood.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Atari never invested in their games, treated their developers like shit, and really had no reason to continue to exist. Which is what happens when you have people who don't care about their product in charge of a company - empty suits only interested in squeezing all the blood out of a turnip so as to maximize their own personal intake of cocaine and hookers.

Gauntlet, at least, could have been a bit more than it was left as. Were there any others? A sane company interested in being around in 10 years, would have at least a couple dozen games with franchise potential, really...

There were two different Ataris at the time Gauntlet (which was made by Atari Games) came out. Atari Corp, which mostly dealt with consoles and home computers, and Atari Games, what was left of the original Atari that made arcade games and some home games under the name Tengen. I keep hearing both referred to as simply "Atari", despite how they were two different companies. I also heard that the home and arcade divisions of Atari were usually kept separate, even before they separated into two different companies.

Yep, at one forum talk given at a past California Extreme show, Ed Logg and Al Alcorn talked about how the tiny Atari Games arcade division was separated from the Atari Corp. side of things. They had their own seperate little space in a tiny building located far away from the actual Atari Corp HQ in Milpitas, CA & completely forgotten/abandoned about (as Ed said in his own words). It was said that the Atari Games arcade division did their own thing without any outside interference/interaction from the (old) Atari Corp. side of things. Al said that he was hired as the number two original Atari employee back in the day. Ed also said despite all the internet rumors of drugs, strippers and whatnot going on at the main Atari Corp. HQ back in the early 1980s, he said none of that stuff ever took place/happened. Ed also said don't believe all the internet rumors being spread around about Atari's past as they are untrue. It was fascinating to hear straight up from the former small Atari Games development team had to say about the games that they worked on and whatnot.

There was one question brought up from a CAX forum attendee that asked about the military version of Battlezone and that was quite interesting. Ed said that Atari Games was commissioned to create a simulator for the Army that was alot more different and hands on in developing it. He also said in developing the user controls from the Bradley unit that the Army was working on was the basis/origin for the X/Y axis arcade controls used in the classic Atari Games vector arcade game of Star Wars released back in 1983 (this same arcade control scheme was used in the Atari Firefox arcade laserdisc game as well when it was released to arcades back in 1984). The Atari Games upgrade kit of The Empire Strikes Back was a rare upgrade kit to convert existing Star Wars arcade cabs into one sported the same arcade control scheme as well as that of the Return of the Jedi arcade game released in 1984 also. Even Atari Games' Hydra arcade upright sported the same classic X/Y axis arcade control scheme.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Turrican]

Back on Genesis: is Rambo III an viable alternative to Mercs? Or at least worthy enough to rest on the same shelf?

[BIL]

Not quite a match for Mercs' superlative Arrange mode, but still a fine pickup for any topdown run/gun aficionado. I really like the varied arsenal - MG, bombs and bow are entirely distinct tools, with grittily finessed knifeplay yielding vital ammo drops. The seek/destroy missions are a tad rambling, and there's some chuggy slowdown when the screen gets crowded, but neither's anywhere near a game-killer. It's cheap too IIRC, at least in NTSCJ.

I suspect it shared personnel with Kujaku Ou II and Jewel Master... lots of little resemblances, both aesthetic and mechanical. I recommend all three for no-frills, no-nonsense early years MD action gaming.

edit: gawd, I forgot how perfect the first stage is - especially on "Hardest" difficulty. Blitzkrieg pace!

ITS TIME 4 REVENGE (mildly biggu 6MB giffu)

Spoiler

Hardest is pretty brisk, you'll die quick if you're not sharp. Not quite the apocalyptic intensity of Mercs' hidden XTREEM mode, however. Now that is among the most murderously tough, blink-and-you're-dead topdown action on any console!

[GSK]

I suspect it shared personnel with Kujaku Ou II and Jewel Master... lots of little resemblances, both aesthetic and mechanical. I recommend all three for no-frills, no-nonsense early years MD action gaming.

KOII/Mystic Defender and Jewel Master definitely shared a programmer, at the very least.

Jewel Master was originally developed and promoted under a different name for the X68 before Sega picked it up--I've never played it but there is a build out there somewhere: http://murakun5555.at.webry.info/201112/article_36.html

[BIL]

Fantastic info, as always.

[Turrican]

Sega knew their stuff in those days. Not bad at all, with knife and arrow it actually offers some different approach to the genre. Not a fan of shoulder view sections, though.


btw, I am looking at a list of megadrive/genesis games that include a computer vs computer experience... For example Herzog Zwei. Does anyone know if such a list exists already?

[CIT]

Not quite a match for Mercs' superlative Arrange mode, but still a fine pickup for any topdown run/gun aficionado. I really like the varied arsenal - MG, bombs and bow are entirely distinct tools, with grittily finessed knifeplay yielding vital ammo drops. The seek/destroy missions are a tad rambling, and there's some chuggy slowdown when the screen gets crowded, but neither's anywhere near a game-killer. It's cheap too IIRC, at least in NTSCJ.

I suspect it shared personnel with Kujaku Ou II and Jewel Master... lots of little resemblances, both aesthetic and mechanical. I recommend all three for no-frills, no-nonsense early years MD action gaming.

edit: gawd, I forgot how perfect the first stage is - especially on "Hardest" difficulty. Blitzkrieg pace!

ITS TIME 4 REVENGE (mildly biggu 6MB giffu)

Spoiler

Hardest is pretty brisk, you'll die quick if you're not sharp. Not quite the apocalyptic intensity of Mercs' hidden XTREEM mode, however. Now that is among the most murderously tough, blink-and-you're-dead topdown action on any console!

Do you have any experience with Caliber .50? Port of the Seta arcade game distributed only in the US by the mysterious Mentrix Software (which I believe was a US-offshoot of Visco).

It looks super slow, but kind of in a good way, like Gain Ground...

[Mortificator]

Like with Heavy Barrel, I can't speak to the Genesis port, but the arcade version. It starts out fun, yet ends prematurely without ever reaching a climax of destruction like Mercs.

[BIL]

Do you have any experience with Caliber .50? Port of the Seta arcade game distributed only in the US by the mysterious Mentrix Software (which I believe was a US-offshoot of Visco).

It looks super slow, but kind of in a good way, like Gain Ground...

Nope! I've always wondered about it though, low-key. Just recently did some looking to confirm it never got JP release. I distinctly remember seeing the ad in EGM, and getting good Jackal/Guerilla War vibes.

It doesn't seem particularly well-liked on here, from the one mention I can recall... I'd have had a go myself by now, if not for my usual procrastination with non-NTSCJ stuff.

[BrianC]

I watched some videos of the AC and Genesis versions of Caliber .50. I'm not sure how the gameplay compares, but the production values of the Genesis version remind me of some of the Micronics conversions. Both graphics and sound could be done better on the Genesis.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Wow it looks like the SMS version of Mercs!

[OmegaFlareX]

I gave RetroArch another chance, and found that their Hard GPU Sync feature provides vsync with very little input lag (both options have to be enabled). I can't tell the difference from vsync off. It's really good.

To test it out, I 1CCed the first loop of Fire Shark. Even on Easy, stage 10 was pretty tricky. Something I think the port does better than AC are the explosion sfx of the larger enemies. That "BWOONG" sound is great.

[wgogh]

To test it out, I 1CCed the first loop of Fire Shark. Even on Easy, stage 10 was pretty tricky. Something I think the port does better than AC are the explosion sfx of the larger enemies. That "BWOONG" sound is great.

My first clear, great game. Even on Easy some stages can get you off guard, and I wasnt used to kamikaze enemies. I feel it has something that makes it inviting to revisit somehow. I tried RetroArch early this year but I remember lag and many emulators not working...

On topic, I'm currently trying to understand Alien Soldier after listening to a podcast about Treasure.