4K Scaling Woes

[FinalBaton]

Interesting... I just checked a local store's web site and indeed they have Panasonic sets. And a 43" EX600, to boot

[Xyga]

I'm not opposed to tracking down a model that handles it better, but from what I can gather, there is no go-to manufacturer that offers this on all of their lines and there are also no good online resources documenting this either.

If I could find a 50-55" 4K UHD for < $1000 that handles scaling 720p/1080p, I'd definitely consider it.

Sony sets consistently offer very good scaling, easily the brand you can trust the most in that area, and a select few like the X900E have at least one mode that does perfect 1080p>4K like those Panasonics, we don't know (yet) if it's available with other resolutions.
I think I've read something about the X900E selling under $1,000 the other day...

But really yeah people, just sell a kidney or something and buy a C7.

PS: EX600 -> interesting indeed

[lettuce]

The best overall TV of 2017 I've tested is the LG 55" C7 OLED. When you label the HDMI input with the Laptop icon it enables PC mode for 4:4:4 color. Both 720p and 1080p output from the Analogue NT mini look really clean. Since the LG OLED panels have 4 sub-pixels (RGBW), the resulting presentation is influenced. The C7 is a massive improvement over the EF9500 in terms of upscaling for retro gaming.

But what about people who haven't got £2500+ to spend on a TV!?

[strygo]

The iScan Micro arrived today. I tried it out with the RetroPie. Overall, I would say that it is a disappointment - no silver bullet here, unfortunately.

With 1080p scaled to 4K, I'd give the iScan Micro a slight edge over the Vizio. It's definitely not pixel perfect, but I'd say it's a hair clearer.

With 720p scaled to 4K, the iScan Micro is a hot mess. The image is quite blurry and has a fair amount of ringing. The Vizio does a better job - with the Vizio, both 1080p and 720p produce a comparable image.

I'll give this a spin with my retro PC over the next few days. I'm hopeful I see a slight improvement - I happen to use 1080p for that. I'm less hopeful with the Framemeister. I happen to like scanlines, so the Micro doesn't provide a good solution for that configuration.

I live not too far from Canada, so the Panasonic is interesting. I'm also interested in figuring out whether the Sony can handle 720p. The LG might be an option in a year or two.

[Xyga]

But what about people who haven't got £2500+ to spend on a TV!?

They have two logical options;
- turn to crime
- buy a Sony

[Thomago]

Plus:
- wait till you either have the money or OLEDs are cheaper

[Blair]

The iScan Micro arrived today. I tried it out with the RetroPie. Overall, I would say that it is a disappointment - no silver bullet here, unfortunately.

With 1080p scaled to 4K, I'd give the iScan Micro a slight edge over the Vizio. It's definitely not pixel perfect, but I'd say it's a hair clearer.

With 720p scaled to 4K, the iScan Micro is a hot mess. The image is quite blurry and has a fair amount of ringing. The Vizio does a better job - with the Vizio, both 1080p and 720p produce a comparable image.

I've experimented off and on with the micro, it's definitely a very difficult beast to tame. its behavior ranges from annoying to puzzling. it's also very particular about what monitors/televisions it will work with. and it definitely benefits from a display that's capable of adding negative sharpness to defeat most of the ringing. even then it's not great with 480p signals (unless you have a relatively small display or sit back quite a ways) and basically useless for 480i. but overall I've had pretty good luck with 720p to 1080p scaling on the micro. here some images of older experiments and some more recent ones.

OSSC experiment

Spoiler

Could you post some pictures?

here are some shots of OSSC 240p line 3X mode on the iscan micro, displayed on my Dell with its sharpness setting at -1

I'm not noticing any major ringing issues. looks pretty okay to me.


Iscan Micro 1080p output+OSSC 240p line 3X

Xbox 360, 720p experiment

Spoiler

Gallery Link=(https://imgur.com/a/TRyZ8)

Panasonic has had a "1080p pixel by 4pixels" setting on their 2160p TVs for quite a few years now. The 2017 EX600 series has low input lag (~18.6ms) too according to this review. Unfortunately, Panasonic doesn't sell their TVs in the US, but they do in Canada and Europe. Vizio and TCL are what we get in the US instead of Panasonic.

I wonder if that's similar to what Extron is touting as its new "Vector 4K Scaling" technology.

there's a bit of info from their site advertising some new 4k scaler's

(hope I get a chance to see it in person, sounds pretty rad)

Spoiler

[orange808]

Extron's new machines are roughly three frames of lag. Useless.

[strygo]

I've experimented off and on with the micro, it's definitely a very difficult beast to tame. its behavior ranges from annoying to puzzling. it's also very particular about what monitors/televisions it will work with. and it definitely benefits from a display that's capable of adding negative sharpness to defeat most of the ringing. even then it's not great with 480p signals (unless you have a relatively small display or sit back quite a ways) and basically useless for 480i. but overall I've had pretty good luck with 720p to 1080p scaling on the micro. here some images of older experiments and some more recent ones.

This matches my experience. I've set my sharpness to zero and if I could in fact go negative, I think it would look better.

What display were you using in these shots?

[Blair]

Extron's new machines are roughly three frames of lag. Useless.

that's disappointing, was that info somewhere on the website?

This matches my experience. I've set my sharpness to zero and if I could in fact go negative, I think it would look better.

What display were you using in these shots?

it was the Dell U23, oldest variant (DVI only), it seems to work pretty well with the DVDOs and their somewhat over sharpened scaling. it even works pretty well with the older HD and HD+ models. check it out (especially when paired with an XRGB-1, very nice 240p scaling to 1080p at only 6ms of input lag!)

Spoiler

here are some shots for my current XRGB-1 set up. (being scaled to 1080p by the DVDO HD) (some with scanlines, some without).

and here are some direct captures

Spoiler

[strayan]

The OP should also note that using linux with the new nvidia drivers or linux with a intel igpu AFAIK has integer scaling modes.