PS2 / Extron RGB 320 / Sony BVM D20F1U

[mheyman]

Hey!
So I have a PS2 I'm trying to hook up to my BVM D20F1U through my Extron RGB 320.

I'm using this scart cable:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-Playstatio ... 1889110228

Connecting to this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Female-RGB-Euro ... XQAEFSD-4B

And then into the RGB 320 and then the BVM. When viewing the signal the sync seems a little messed up and it looked like I was missing a color channel. When I connect directly to the BVM I have no issues so I'm assuming something isn't working properly when going through the Extron. Is my signal RGsB? Extron's site says that my Extron should accept that signal. It's possible I didn't have my BVM set up for the right signal from the Extron?
This might be unrelated but would an Extron Crosspoint be easier or make any difference? I kind of wish svideo worked with my Extron?

[Fudoh]

Your signal is RGBs (with external sync). It's possible that your Extron 320 requires a clean sync signal, which your PS2 doesn't provide.

You can set your PS2 to component though and let the Extron treat it like RGsB instead. If you set your BVM's input channel to component as well you can reduce your PS2 hookup to three signal lines (instead of four).

Maybe your PS2 is already set to component and you just need to switch your monitor to YPbPr instead of RGB.

[Wolf_]

If the 320 is anything like the crosspoint then it only accepts csync and you'll need to use a sync strike.
http://arcadeforge.net/Scaler-and-Strik ... anguage=en

SuperG is currently working on an all in 1 cable but it will probably take awhile to come out.

[Lawfer]

Your signal is RGBs (with external sync). It's possible that your Extron 320 requires a clean sync signal, which your PS2 doesn't provide.

Out of interest, anyway way to get clean sync out of a PS2? According to Bob from RetroRGB, it does not seem to be the case?

[Fudoh]

I think you can do a mod to get clean H/V sync from the GPU and then combine it into composite sync.

[Lawfer]

I think you can do a mod to get clean H/V sync from the GPU and then combine it into composite sync.

I see, thank you. Also out of curiosity, what would be the aim of doing this mod? Would that improve picture quality on a monitor like the BVM D20? Or it will just improve compatibility with the Extron RGB and that's it?

I am just curious about what's the big deal between CSYNC vs Sync on Video Composite as I have been using sync on video composite for PS1, Saturn etc

You can set your PS2 to component though and let the Extron treat it like RGsB instead. If you set your BVM's input channel to component as well you can reduce your PS2 hookup to three signal lines (instead of four).

What if he used GSM and output in 480p through RGsB (3 wires), would that improve compatibility?

[Fudoh]

I am just curious about what's the big deal between CSYNC vs Sync on Video Composite as I have been using sync on video composite for PS1, Saturn etc

composite video as sync can cause various artefacts on screen, but using luma instead is usually as good as it gets. Aiming for CSYNC instead doesn't provide any improvement in quality, so it would just be for increased compatibility with a handful of devices.

[Fusion916]

If you need a sync stripper (plus audio) I have this for sale, with selectable HVSYNC or CSYNC:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191845520434

[Lawfer]

I am just curious about what's the big deal between CSYNC vs Sync on Video Composite as I have been using sync on video composite for PS1, Saturn etc

composite video as sync can cause various artefacts on screen, but using luma instead is usually as good as it gets. Aiming for CSYNC instead doesn't provide any improvement in quality, so it would just be for increased compatibility with a handful of devices.

Just to be sure, the official PS1 RGB Scart/JP21 Cable does not output Luma, does it?

[Fudoh]

no, all official RGB cables, no matter if Sony, Sega, Nintendo or SNK (did I forget any?) output composite video as sync.

[Lawfer]

no, all official RGB cables, no matter if Sony, Sega, Nintendo or SNK (did I forget any?) output composite video as sync.

I see, I haven't actually noticed anything weird in the picture though, what do you mean by "artefacts", do you have perhaps some pictures example of what to look for, please?

If not, for PS2 the best would be to get an unofficial Luma Scart PS2 RGB cable from retrogamingcables or something, right?

[Wolf_]

no, all official RGB cables, no matter if Sony, Sega, Nintendo or SNK (did I forget any?) output composite video as sync.

I see, I haven't actually noticed anything weird in the picture though, what do you mean by "artefacts", do you have perhaps some pictures example of what to look for, please?

If not, for PS2 the best would be to get an unofficial Luma Scart PS2 RGB cable from retrogamingcables or something, right?

Hands down. Unless you are going into a crosspoint (or any extron switcher afaik) in which case you will need that and a sync strike.

For now anyways. I'm eagerly awaiting SuperG's sync on green all in one cable.

[Lawfer]

no, all official RGB cables, no matter if Sony, Sega, Nintendo or SNK (did I forget any?) output composite video as sync.

I see, I haven't actually noticed anything weird in the picture though, what do you mean by "artefacts", do you have perhaps some pictures example of what to look for, please?

If not, for PS2 the best would be to get an unofficial Luma Scart PS2 RGB cable from retrogamingcables or something, right?

Hands down. Unless you are going into a crosspoint (or any extron switcher afaik) in which case you will need that and a sync strike.

No, just scart to BNC breakout adapater to monitor.

[Wolf_]

I see, I haven't actually noticed anything weird in the picture though, what do you mean by "artefacts", do you have perhaps some pictures example of what to look for, please?

If not, for PS2 the best would be to get an unofficial Luma Scart PS2 RGB cable from retrogamingcables or something, right?

Hands down. Unless you are going into a crosspoint (or any extron switcher afaik) in which case you will need that and a sync strike.

No, just scart to BNC breakout adapater to monitor.

No. Extron switches don't accept sync on Luma, only csync (clear not composite)

[nmalinoski]

No. Extron switches don't accept sync on Luma, only csync (clear not composite)

This reads a bit confusingly. If I understand the terminology correctly, CSync is Composite Sync (as in H+V muxed on one wire); and, if I'm understanding what you're saying correctly, Extron's switchers will not accept luma (sync-on-luma) or composite video (sync-on-composite) as a valid composite sync signal.

[Wolf_]

No. Extron switches don't accept sync on Luma, only csync (clear not composite)

This reads a bit confusingly. If I understand the terminology correctly, CSync is Composite Sync (as in H+V muxed on one wire); and, if I'm understanding what you're saying correctly, Extron's switchers will not accept luma (sync-on-luma) or composite video (sync-on-composite) as a valid composite sync signal.

As far as syncs go extrons accept: RGBHV, RGBS, RGsB, and component

[Lawfer]

No. Extron switches don't accept sync on Luma, only csync (clear not composite)

No what I am saying is that I won't use any Extron, just Scart hooked to the monitor.

[mheyman]

Your signal is RGBs (with external sync). It's possible that your Extron 320 requires a clean sync signal, which your PS2 doesn't provide.

You can set your PS2 to component though and let the Extron treat it like RGsB instead. If you set your BVM's input channel to component as well you can reduce your PS2 hookup to three signal lines (instead of four).

Maybe your PS2 is already set to component and you just need to switch your monitor to YPbPr instead of RGB.

Thanks for the reply! So to clarify: setting my PS2 to component (RGsB) will fix the clean sync issue as long as I change the BVM channel to component as well? Is there any quality difference between RGBs and RGsB? Other people have mentioned needing a cable with a sync stripper like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Female-RGB-Euro ... 0752.m1982

Would this help solve the problem. I apologize if I'm not quite grasping all of this.

[Lawfer]

Your signal is RGBs (with external sync). It's possible that your Extron 320 requires a clean sync signal, which your PS2 doesn't provide.

You can set your PS2 to component though and let the Extron treat it like RGsB instead. If you set your BVM's input channel to component as well you can reduce your PS2 hookup to three signal lines (instead of four).

Maybe your PS2 is already set to component and you just need to switch your monitor to YPbPr instead of RGB.

Thanks for the reply! So to clarify: setting my PS2 to component (RGsB) will fix the clean sync issue as long as I change the BVM channel to component as well? Is there any quality difference between RGBs and RGsB? Other people have mentioned needing a cable with a sync stripper like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Female-RGB-Euro ... 0752.m1982

Would this help solve the problem. I apologize if I'm not quite grasping all of this.

Component is not RGsB, it is YPbPr, Fudoh said that your Extron RGB will threat it as RGsB but the source won't be RGB. For component on PS2 you need a SCPH-10100 component cable, like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000520GE/

There is also another way I think, is that you could install GSM on your memory card to run your PS2 games in 480p (rather than 480i) and hook it to the Extron RGB using the VGA SCPH-10320 cable:



This cable will give you RGsB (but only with 480p, no 240p/480i support).

[Fudoh]

some misinformation here....

You don't need another cable. Component from your PS2 will be passed through the scart cable (just without using the sync pin). Since the Extron can't tell if it's a RGsB or YPbPr signal, it will be treated as RGsB. On the output side of the Extron only the R/B/G lines will be used. The sync cable will remain unused, but you can leave it connected of course in case you got another RGBs (Scart) sources connected to your Extron.

On your CRT there should be no visible difference between using RGBs or YPbPr from your PS2.

[Wolf_]

some misinformation here....

You don't need another cable. Component from your PS2 will be passed through the scart cable (just without using the sync pin). Since the Extron can't tell if it's a RGsB or YPbPr signal, it will be treated as RGsB. On the output side of the Extron only the R/B/G lines will be used. The sync cable will remain unused, but you can leave it connected of course in case you got another RGBs (Scart) sources connected to your Extron.

On your CRT there should be no visible difference between using RGBs or YPbPr from your PS2.

According to RetroRgb the difference is visible.

[Fudoh]

FBX recently posted comparison pics and it's complete negligible. And here we were talking an ultra sensitive processor which exhibits every little bit of noise. On a CRT it's absolutely not worth trying to work with one over the other....

[Lawfer]

some misinformation here....

Oh okay, sorry about that!

FBX recently posted comparison pics and it's complete negligible. And here we were talking an ultra sensitive processor which exhibits every little bit of noise. On a CRT it's absolutely not worth trying to work with one over the other....

Will there be any visible difference on a broadcast monitor if I get a new Scart Sync-on-Luma Cable rather than the official PS1 JP21/Scart Cable (which uses composite video as sync)?

[Blair]

I've actually noticed that sometimes on my PVMs in particular component can look a little rougher than RGB, but that might just be me. the RetroTink author (Mike Chi) also noted this in a video showcasing his pi adapter. (he seems to have the same issue I have, slight color bleeding) not sure how widespread it is, but it's something to keep an eye out for.

see video
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBUwHCyEv58) (skip to around the 4 minute mark)

[Fudoh]

Will there be any visible difference on a broadcast monitor if I get a new Scart Sync-on-Luma Cable rather than the official PS1 JP21/Scart Cable (which uses composite video as sync)?

in my experience only with a PAL PS1/2. On a NTSC system I have yet to spot any differences.

[Lawfer]

Will there be any visible difference on a broadcast monitor if I get a new Scart Sync-on-Luma Cable rather than the official PS1 JP21/Scart Cable (which uses composite video as sync)?

in my experience only with a PAL PS1/2. On a NTSC system I have yet to spot any differences.

I see thank you, there is also something I have been wondering for a while, when I play PS1 games (I only play PS1 games on the same PS2 I play PS2 games), I noticed that there are some black bars behind the picture of the game, it's like beneath the image of PS1 games there is the "canvas" that superpose on top of the "frame" and the "frame" looks like this:



Meaning in certain condition depending on the coloring and texture*, the black vertical bars of the "frame" will start to become slightly visible on the "canvas" itself. That only happens with PS1 games, never with PS2 games.

*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPspfM8S2fU&t=3m43s In this game for example it is noticeable when you look at the brown ground texture you will notice the vertical lines of the "frame" running through the brown ground texture.

Would you know what these are? And is that normal?