When to prefer NTSC over PAL systems?

[Extrems]

Apart from wanting accessing to Europe-only games, are there any reasons why an American might bother to get a PAL console? My (admittedly unthorough) investigations have led me to conclude that although I might gain access to RGB (in the case of the Xbox or Wii), I would run into trouble with 480p and thus YPbPr via component is a better option. Am I wrong at all?

Wii hardware is the same in all regions, the only difference is the software it's programmed with at the factory.

[Lawfer]

Sync on composite is fine with a well shielded cable.

Are the official PAL Wii Scart and official PS1 JP21 cables well shielded?

[strygo]

Wii hardware is the same in all regions, the only difference is the software it's programmed with at the factory.

Got it. My understanding is that the SCART cable doesn't support 480p. Is this true? If so, is it a hardware or software issue?

EDIT: To be clear, RetroRGB provides what appears to be very clear guidance on this (i.e.: prefer NTSC+YPbPr for 480p), but I see lots of people talking about preferring PAL Wiis, so that is the source of my confusion.

[Extrems]

Got it. My understanding is that the SCART cable doesn't support 480p. Is this true? If so, is it a hardware or software issue?

Yes. The AVE-RVL can output 480p RGB, but it doesn't appear to put sync anywhere.

[speedlolita]

Apart from PS3 onwards, always had NTSC even though I am in PAL land.

Some upscalers like the XRGB are apparently not liking non 60hz input, although I have never tried it.

The original code on the disc/cart is always native ntsc format, so your getting what the programmers designed, not some hogwash conversion that fits into the PAL TV screen with whatever sacrifices were required at the time.

With the PS1 and PS2, you can't even play PAL games in 60hz since the system plays the disc at the speed the disc wants to be played. The positive here is that you can get the PAL console and buy the NTSC discs, if you mod the system.

That last bit there is only true of PS1 software. An NTSC machine will play PS2 PAL software just fine (and vice versa) as long as it has the means to boot it (debug/modchip). Modchips can remedy PS1 software running too fast/slow though. Also the original code could be PAL if it were developed in the UK/PAL region, like Wipeout. As a fan of Japanese video games though, I agree with that mentality.

Sync on composite is fine with a well shielded cable.

Are the official PAL Wii Scart and official PS1 JP21 cables well shielded?

Yep.

[Lawfer]

As a fan of Japanese video games though, I agree with that mentality.

Same here, I only play japanese games at this point. I really couldnt care less about PAL, unless it's a japanese game that was never released in the US, like Siren 2, Disaster: Day of Crisis, Shinobido: Way of the Ninja and quite a few others.

Yep.

Great to know, thanks!

[bateman82]

The RGB on the GameCube and Wii are Sync-on-Composite only, and derived from the YCbCr signal. Component is better.

Component is better because it supports 480p, not as opposed to sync on composite RGB. And no, not even when taking account of the transcoding step from YCbCr - I compared both setups and posted a gif of that sometime ago which showed no significant difference (for GBA games through GBP+GBI).

I've got a pal softmodded Wii hooked to a crt via official rgb scart cable for 240p Virtual console.

Can I use my official Nintendo component cable (via a xpc-4) and obtain 240p in VC games or am I limited to 480i/p only?

[Ikaruga11]

The RGB on the GameCube and Wii are Sync-on-Composite only, and derived from the YCbCr signal. Component is better.

Component is better because it supports 480p, not as opposed to sync on composite RGB. And no, not even when taking account of the transcoding step from YCbCr - I compared both setups and posted a gif of that sometime ago which showed no significant difference (for GBA games through GBP+GBI).

I've got a pal softmodded Wii hooked to a crt via official rgb scart cable for 240p Virtual console.

Can I use my official Nintendo component cable (via a xpc-4) and obtain 240p in VC games or am I limited to 480i/p only?

Component can do 240p all the way up to 1080p and possibly beyond.

[bateman82]

Thanks a lot for your fast reply.

I've alrealdy know that component can go from 240p to 1080p, but I'd like to know if someone has tried Wii 240p Virtual Console games via component.

[Ikaruga11]

Thanks a lot for your fast reply.

I've alrealdy know that component can go from 240p to 1080p, but I'd like to know if someone has tried Wii 240p Virtual Console games via component.

It works. 240p is just a trick of 480i. Component does both.

[Xer Xian]

Make sure to read Fudoh's excellent review of the XPC-4. It has a few quirks that's better being aware of (among which is sub-par handling of D-terminal signals).

[ZellSF]

Thanks a lot for your fast reply.

I've alrealdy know that component can go from 240p to 1080p, but I'd like to know if someone has tried Wii 240p Virtual Console games via component.

It works. 240p is just a trick of 480i. Component does both.

While 240p on the Wii works, it sounds like you were making a logical connection here and there isn't one. There are consoles that can do 480i but not 240p over component.

[bateman82]

Make sure to read Fudoh's excellent review of the XPC-4. It has a few quirks that's better being aware of (among which is sub-par handling of D-terminal signals).

Thanks a lot for your advice, Fudoh's review is, as usual, great, but I've already tought about that.

I will transcode Wii component into VGA using X Select D4.

[speedlolita]

Thanks a lot for your fast reply.

I've alrealdy know that component can go from 240p to 1080p, but I'd like to know if someone has tried Wii 240p Virtual Console games via component.

It works. 240p is just a trick of 480i. Component does both.

While 240p on the Wii works, it sounds like you were making a logical connection here and there isn't one. There are consoles that can do 480i but not 240p over component.

And also TV sets that can display 480i but not 240p. A friend's late 00s Panasonic fits this description.

[Link83]

If your not going to be modding your consoles, then i'd always recommend getting NTSC models.

If you are willing to mod your consoles (e.g. for region free) then IMO its only worth getting NTSC models when the PAL models actually use different motherboards compared to the NTSC models (So for instance if the consoles motherboard revision code has "PAL" or "(P)" in it)

The following consoles have identical* motherboards worldwide, and usually just have their region set in software:-

-Sega-
Dreamcast

-Nintendo-
Wii
Wii U

-Sony-
PS2 (Only models after SCPH-3000X R [F-chassis/GH-015 motherboard] Earlier models use different crystals for NTSC/PAL)
PS3
PS4

-Microsoft-
Xbox
Xbox 360
Xbox One

*Technically some consoles do use slightly different values for some passive components on S-Video for each region, but this is irrelevent if using RGB

Any consoles prior to these have region specific motherboards, and so may require more extensive modding to enable 'true' 60Hz output:-
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5744.0

[Lawfer]

So PS1 use different motherboards depending on regions?

[speedlolita]

So PS1 use different motherboards depending on regions?

Earlier PlayStation (100X to 550X or so) use a video chip that outputs video depending on the software. In this scenario, if you ran PAL software on an NTSC system it would output PAL video but it would have the wrong crystal oscillator - so the colour would be in black and white. Running NTSC software on a PAL system would have the same result.

Later models (700X - PSone) have a different video chip. If you try to run NTSC software on a modded PAL system it will output PAL60, so a composite video signal will be decoded properly. I'm not entirely sure what would happen if you ran PAL software in a modded NTSC system but I assume it would output some kind of NTSC and also not be black and white.

None of those matters if you use RGB though, but be aware that your software won't be running at the correct speed on the later models (I think) or if you're using the wrong crystal oscillator for your software. I personally have a SCPH-5501 board with a Mayumi V4 chip for my NTSC software. I also have a PAL PSone with a ONEchip installed, just as a backup really. I got the PSone for free and the chip was like £2 so I felt it was worth it.

Only the very first revision of the Japanese PlayStation (1000... A? I guess, PU-7 board) is able to boot software that is non Japanese too. This is pretty cool as it doesn't have the black licensing screen when you boot PAL or NTSC-U software as the BIOS doesn't have that information in it! To combat the cd player boot exploit though it seems as if they locked out other regions on the Japanese BIOS. If you modchip a PlayStation with a Japanese motherboard it will only boot Japanese backups - I learned this the hard way...

I'm rambling a little but this is probably what Link83 was alluding to.

[Lawfer]

Yes I am aware of the difference in encoding chip, however unlike say the Megadrive the motherboard is the same (save for the video chip)?

Earlier PlayStation (100X to 550X or so) use a video chip that outputs video depending on the software. In this scenario, if you ran PAL software on an NTSC system it would output PAL video but it would have the wrong crystal oscillator - so the colour would be in black and white. Running NTSC software on a PAL system would have the same result.

I used a PAL early PS1 (the one with the manufacturing defect with the lens thing) that ran NTSC games through various means (modchip, action replay tricks) and never ran into any problems with the colors when outputing in RGB.

[Link83]

The PS1 has different crystal oscillators for different regions, which results in timing differences even if you bypass the disk region check. This can make some games unplayable (e.g. Bermani games) It also affects the black level and can cause stuttering. There is a fix here:-
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?to ... 9#msg39689

In addition it appears that some components were only used for certain regions (AFAIK the ROHM video encoder was only ever used in PAL PS1's) and the PAL BIOS was also different in many models:-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_models
So there are a number of differences between PAL and NTSC PS1 models.

[bateman82]

I've got a pal 32x and I don't know if it is worth the region switch mod.

I'm only interested in these games:

Virtua fighter
Virtua racing
Stellar assault
Knuckles chaotix

Does anybody have both the pal and ntsc version to compare?

Is the only difference 50/60 hz (or the pal games are letterboxed)?