Tell me about Nintendo DS/GBA/Lite cross compatibility!!!!

[neorichieb1971]

I've got my eyes on an ebay item, a DS lite in fact.

The games I want to play on my DS Lite are -

Mr Driller Spirits
Bubble Bobble Revolution
Sega Gallery GBA

I might buy a puzzle bobble game as well at some point.


Is there one system that plays all these games? Do I have to buy 2 systems?


A separate issue is that I want a GBA/GC link cable to play that pacman game with the family. I think I need a GBA for that. But at the moment I am interested in the above games only.


Thanks for letting me know.

Richie.

[Ikaruga11]

Yes, a DS Lite. Get that.

[neorichieb1971]

Thanks

I just did a search and saw there is backwards compatibility. I assume the DS lite has 2 cart ports because the game cards are not the same dimensions.

[Guspaz]

Be wary, because some later DS Lite consoles had really terrible viewing angles, much much worse than the AGS-101. Earlier units were, IIRC, on-par with the AGS-101.

Broadly speaking, compatibility for all major Nintendo handhelds and adapters looked like this:

Game Boy: DMG
Game Boy Pocket: DMG
Game Boy Light: DMG
Super Game Boy: DMG, SGB
Game Boy Color: DMG, GBC
Game Boy Advance: DMG, GBC, GBA
Game Boy Player: DMG, GBC, GBA
Nintendo DS: GBA, DS
Ninendo DS Lite: GBA, DS
Nintendo DSi: DS, DSI
Nintendo 3DS: DS, DSI, 3DS
Nintendo 2DS: DS, DSI, 3DS
New Nintendo 3DS: DS, DSI, 3DS, N3DS
Switch: Switch

For the optimal playing experience for any game released in the last 28 years using unmodified portable hardware, I'd suggest four consoles:

Game Boy Advance AGS-101 (DMG, GBC, GBA)
- The only official backlit device that can play GBC games

Nintendo DSi XL (DS, DSI)
- The DSi XL are the only official IPS device that can play DS/DSI games at their native resolution full-screen. The XL offers the largest experience for DS games, and the 3DS D-Pad is in a bad position.

New Nintendo 3DS XL (DS, DSI, 3DS, N3DS)
- It's a crapshoot if you get TN or IPS panels, but it has much better 3D than the non-new variants (which can't play N3DS games).

Switch
- Only device that can play Switch games


If you were trying instead to minimize the number of devices for the broadest possible compatibility, regardless of if it was the best experience or not, you can do it in three devices by dropping the DSi XL.

[Ikaruga11]

Be wary, because some later DS Lite consoles had really terrible viewing angles, much much worse than the AGS-101. Earlier units were, IIRC, on-par with the AGS-101.

Seriously? I never knew this. When did DS Lites start getting terrible viewing angles? They're all TN panels. Do the colors or ghosting get worse too?

I have the Zelda Edition DS Lite that came bundled with Phantom Hourglass. Is that affected?

Nintendo DSi XL (DS, DSI)
- The DSI/DSI XL are the only official IPS (or maybe VA) device that can play DS/DSI games at their native resolution full-screen. The XL offers the largest experience for DS games, and the 3DS D-Pad is in a bad position.

All DSi XL systems used Dual IPS screens. None of the standard sized DSi models had any IPS screens. In fact, a ton of DSi units had very poorly calibrated TNs. One screen might have a strong red push, while the other screen might have a blue push.

And yeah, the DSi XL is the definitive way to play DS games. Contrary to what I said months ago. The DSi XL has the longest battery life, best speakers, dual IPS screens, more precise touchscreen due to the increased size, the largest way to play DS games at their native resolution, etc.

New Nintendo 3DS XL (DS, DSI, 3DS, N3DS)
- It's a crapshoot if you get TN or IPS panels, but it has much better 3D than the non-new variants (which can't play N3DS games).

Any reason you chose the XL variant and not the standard New 3DS?

[DejahThoris]

And yeah, the DSi XL is the definitive way to play DS games. Contrary to what I said months ago. The DSi XL has the longest battery life, best speakers, dual IPS screens, more precise touchscreen due to the increased size, the largest way to play DS games at their native resolution, etc.

Honestly I'll never regret having purchased one of these guys:
http://photobucket.com/gallery/http://s ... p.jpg.html

But the DS is also one of my absolute favorite platforms of all time, if not my favorite. And that right there makes playing longer games just so much easier.

[Ikaruga11]

Honestly I'll never regret having purchased one of these guys:
http://photobucket.com/gallery/http://s ... p.jpg.html

But the DS is also one of my absolute favorite platforms of all time, if not my favorite. And that right there makes playing longer games just so much easier.

What is that?

[Hoagtech]

And yeah, the DSi XL is the definitive way to play DS games. Contrary to what I said months ago. The DSi XL has the longest battery life, best speakers, dual IPS screens, more precise touchscreen due to the increased size, the largest way to play DS games at their native resolution, etc.

Honestly I'll never regret having purchased one of these guys:
http://photobucket.com/gallery/http://s ... p.jpg.html

But the DS is also one of my absolute favorite platforms of all time, if not my favorite. And that right there makes playing longer games just so much easier.

I ended up passing on those because of rumored input lag through your capture program.

I always wanted one to replay Dragon Quest IX on my couch.

I have heard the best way to play is unfornuately through Wii U Ds emulation.

If you want to play your collection you can buy a slot 2 (gba slot) flash card and dump your roms and save files into your flash cart then transfer them to your Sd card on the Wii U.

The problem is you can't transfer your Wii U ds saves back to your original ds cart when you want to continue on your ds.

@OP I would reccomend a AGS-101 GBA For GBA and the "gbboy Colour" (Chinese) for gb and gbc.

Dsi XL for DS games

N3DS XL for 3DS

Reason for both systems is the 3DS screen is wider so all your DS games have black bars around them

;(B yuck

[ZellSF]

The DS Lite would work for your purposes. Though I personally wouldn't recommend it, it has some QA issues (bad dpads, bad hinges, bad triggers, inconsistent screens plus the usual), its button layout is not ideal for GBA games (plus no link cable) and its small screen size and motion blurring makes it one of the worst options for DS games.

The ideal solution is IMO a GBA AGS-101 + a DSi XL. It is two devices and quite a bit more expensive though.

[DejahThoris]

I ended up passing on those because of rumored input lag through your capture program.

I always wanted one to replay Dragon Quest IX on my couch.

I have heard the best way to play is unfornuately through Wii U Ds emulation.

If you want to play your collection you can buy a slot 2 (gba slot) flash card and dump your roms and save files into your flash cart then transfer them to your Sd card on the Wii U.

The problem is you can't transfer your Wii U ds saves back to your original ds cart when you want to continue on your ds.

I don't use a capture program, I just go straight to a monitor (used to be both outputs to two monitors, one on top of the other in my old setup). If you wanted to use a capture program you could still route one of the two outputs to capture, and one to a TV.

Plus, it's better for GBA on your TV than the Gameboy Player.

That's some cool info about the WiiU. Too bad saves don't work in both directions.

What is that?

It's an IS Nitro Capture. Nintendo offered them for sale to developers to play on external monitors. If you're patient they can be had cheap (I paid $180 for mine 6 months ago or so), and if you aren't, well, you can pick one up any day of the week usually around $500.

The original fat DS ones are cheaper. And the DSi/DSiXL ones are not very common at all (for the record, I'm in the market for an XL if anyone's got one).

[ZellSF]

Plus, it's better for GBA on your TV than the Gameboy Player.

How? There's homebrew software (Game Boy Interface) that pretty much removes all complaints people have had about the Game Boy Player.

[Pikkon]

Honestly I'll never regret having purchased one of these guys:
http://photobucket.com/gallery/http://s ... p.jpg.html

But the DS is also one of my absolute favorite platforms of all time, if not my favorite. And that right there makes playing longer games just so much easier.

Man you got a great deal on the nitro,I almost bought one but the price was a bit to much.

Sucks it can't do rgb but it does use the same video encoder as the n64.

[Ikaruga11]

I have heard the best way to play is unfornuately through Wii U Ds emulation.

DS emulation on the Wii U is terrible. You're far better off using an unofficial DS or 3DS emulator.

@OP I would reccomend a AGS-101 GBA For GBA and the "gbboy Colour" (Chinese) for gb and gbc.

The GB Boy Colour uses an incorrect aspect ratio that stretches all GameBoy and GameBoy Color games and has audio issues, among other things.

N3DS XL for 3DS

N3DS is better because 3D models show far less aliasing and pixelation than the XL variants.

Reason for both systems is the 3DS screen is wider so all your DS games have black bars around them

;(B yuck

And the 3DS uses a larger resolution. If you boot DS games on a 3DS while holding Start or Select, the DS game will be displayed in it's native resolution. So you'll have black bars on both sides, along with black bars on the top for the top screen, and black bars on the bottom for the bottom screen.

You can reach DSi XL levels of size by playing DS games on a [New] 2/3DS XL and not holding anything on bootup, but the image will be blurry and horribly pixelated due to the poor scaling.

The DS Lite would work for your purposes. Though I personally wouldn't recommend it, it has some QA issues (bad dpads, bad hinges, bad triggers, inconsistent screens plus the usual), its button layout is not ideal for GBA games (plus no link cable) and its small screen size and motion blurring makes it one of the worst options for DS games.

The ideal solution is IMO a GBA AGS-101 + a DSi XL. It is two devices and quite a bit more expensive though.

Is the build quality and screen quality worse than the original Phat DS?

Regardless, despite lacking a Link Cable Port, the DS and DS Lite both have a unique niche of unlocking certain things in DS games by having the right GBA game inserted into Slot 2. A DS or DS Lite is also the only way to transfer Pokemon from Gen 3 to Gen 4.

Sucks it can't do rgb but it does use the same video encoder as the n64.

If the Intelligent Systems Nitro Capture uses the same video encoder as the Nintendo 64 (would explain the lack of RGB support, but couldn't that be modded back in?), then the GameBoy Interface is far better.

[Extrems]

Sucks it can't do rgb but it does use the same video encoder as the n64.

If the Intelligent Systems Nitro Capture uses the same video encoder as the Nintendo 64 (would explain the lack of RGB support, but couldn't that be modded back in?), then the GameBoy Interface is far better.

I thought it used the AVE N-DOL (i.e. NTSC GameCube)

[Pikkon]

Sucks it can't do rgb but it does use the same video encoder as the n64.

If the Intelligent Systems Nitro Capture uses the same video encoder as the Nintendo 64 (would explain the lack of RGB support, but couldn't that be modded back in?), then the GameBoy Interface is far better.

I thought it used the AVE N-DOL (i.e. NTSC GameCube)

Some of the early ones used the n64 encoder,and the lite uses the gamecube encoder,forgot about that.

Here's the info,it used to have a pic of the board but I guess it's long gone.
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=4699.0

edit
Found it on wayback machine.
https://web.archive.org/web/20150922153 ... pic=4699.0

[DejahThoris]

Plus, it's better for GBA on your TV than the Gameboy Player.

How? There's homebrew software (Game Boy Interface) that pretty much removes all complaints people have had about the Game Boy Player.

Because of all the complaints people have about the GBP (which is what I commented on, not GBI). GBI is fine, but neither an out of the box solution, or an officially licensed product. The IS Nitro Capture is both.

If you really want I can revise my original statement to "It's the best official product for playing GBA on a TV". That's more nitpicking resistant .

[Guspaz]

GBI is not a standalone product, though, it's just driver software for the GBP. You're still running on officially licensed hardware containing an actual GBA. Definitely not an out-of-the-box solution, though.

Unfortunately it seems that when it came to the 3DS (whose capture boxes seem to use Wii power and video cabling), the development hardware can only run code signed with the development keys, so you can't play your retail 3DS games on them.

[DejahThoris]

GBI is not a standalone product, though, it's just driver software for the GBP. You're still running on officially licensed hardware containing an actual GBA. Definitely not an out-of-the-box solution, though.

Unfortunately it seems that when it came to the 3DS (whose capture boxes seem to use Wii power and video cabling), the development hardware can only run code signed with the development keys, so you can't play your retail 3DS games on them.

I know what it is, but I definitely worded what I was thinking strangely though.

That was the case with the IS Nitro Emulator for a long time, but someone wrote a script to sign retail roms for use on them. I don't own an emulator, only the capture, so I don't know much about it.

Maybe down the line we'll see something similar for 3DS!

https://github.com/ryanrocks462/DS-IS-N ... ning-Tools

[neorichieb1971]

I think I'll get a DSi XL for now and get a standard GBA later on for the Sega gallery and GC link cable.

I'm not willing to spend a great deal of money on this stuff. Its just to fill boring lunch breaks at work etc.

[Pikkon]

GBI is not a standalone product, though, it's just driver software for the GBP. You're still running on officially licensed hardware containing an actual GBA. Definitely not an out-of-the-box solution, though.

Unfortunately it seems that when it came to the 3DS (whose capture boxes seem to use Wii power and video cabling), the development hardware can only run code signed with the development keys, so you can't play your retail 3DS games on them.

There's PARTNER-CTR CAPTURE kits that plays retails and uses dvi for video.

[DejahThoris]

There's PARTNER-CTR CAPTURE kits that plays retails and uses dvi for video.

This is good news. All I see are pics of original 3DS's attached though, and I am honestly not a fan of holding those for hours on end. Do you know if there's a N3DS/XL model? Or even just a 3DS XL model/variation?

DVI is good! Way better than Composite.

Also, sorry OP for babbling on about other things in your thread. I do think you'll be very happy with a DSi XL and a GBA, try to get a backlit one if possible, sometimes they pop up like ~$20 cheap, least in my area..

[Pikkon]

As for the other models I would think there's new 3ds one but the best place that would list eveything is https://developer.nintendo.com/ but that's a closed website for dev's only.

[DejahThoris]

As for the other models I would think there's new 3ds one but the best place that would list eveything is https://developer.nintendo.com/ but that's a closed website for dev's only.

Good thing I just signed up as a dev. Answer get. But agreed to an NDA, soo

[Ikaruga11]

Can anyone tell me more on the bad viewing angles, motion blur, etc. of some DS Lite units? How widespread is this and how can I know before buying if it's an inferior screen?

[ZellSF]

Can anyone tell me more on the bad viewing angles, motion blur, etc. of some DS Lite units? How widespread is this and how can I know before buying if it's an inferior screen?

I've always heard motion blur as a general problem with DS Lites. I don't think it's a problem limited to a few models.

[Einzelherz]

Be wary, because some later DS Lite consoles had really terrible viewing angles, much much worse than the AGS-101. Earlier units were, IIRC, on-par with the AGS-101.

Broadly speaking, compatibility for all major Nintendo handhelds and adapters looked like this:

Game Boy: DMG
Game Boy Pocket: DMG
Game Boy Light: DMG
Super Game Boy: DMG, SGB
Game Boy Color: DMG, GBC
Game Boy Advance: DMG, GBC, GBA
Game Boy Player: DMG, GBC, GBA
Nintendo DS: GBA, DS
Ninendo DS Lite: GBA, DS
Nintendo DSi: DS, DSI
Nintendo 3DS: DS, DSI, 3DS
Nintendo 2DS: DS, DSI, 3DS
New Nintendo 3DS: DS, DSI, 3DS, N3DS
Switch: Switch

For the optimal playing experience for any game released in the last 28 years using unmodified portable hardware, I'd suggest four consoles:

Game Boy Advance AGS-101 (DMG, GBC, GBA)
- The only official backlit device that can play GBC games

Nintendo DSi XL (DS, DSI)
- The DSI/DSI XL are the only official IPS (or maybe VA) device that can play DS/DSI games at their native resolution full-screen. The XL offers the largest experience for DS games, and the 3DS D-Pad is in a bad position.

New Nintendo 3DS XL (DS, DSI, 3DS, N3DS)
- It's a crapshoot if you get TN or IPS panels, but it has much better 3D than the non-new variants (which can't play N3DS games).

Switch
- Only device that can play Switch games


If you were trying instead to minimize the number of devices for the broadest possible compatibility, regardless of if it was the best experience or not, you can do it in three devices by dropping the DSi XL.

This is a good, informative post and should be stickied somewhere.

[Ikaruga11]

Can anyone tell me more on the bad viewing angles, motion blur, etc. of some DS Lite units? How widespread is this and how can I know before buying if it's an inferior screen?

I've always heard motion blur as a general problem with DS Lites. I don't think it's a problem limited to a few models.

Yeah, apparently they use very similar screens to the AGS-101. Vivid saturated colors on a bright backlit screen, but with some ghosting

Aside from unlocking content in DS games with the right GBA game inserted into Slot 2 and transferring Pokemon from Gen 3 to Gen 4, the clock present in the original DS Phat and DS Lite makes RNG Abuse in Pokemon games a lot easier. So there are a lot of good reasons to use a DS Lite over a DSi XL and New 3DS [XL].

If only there was enough interest in the screens to get a database started.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I've got a black colored DS Lite with both Taito's Space Invaders Extreme 1 & 2 that can use the optional Taito produced DS Paddle controller (it came in four different colors: silver, pink, white & black). It's amazing that Taito was able to capture the "full-sized" arcade spinner in minaturized form complete with spot-on weighted flywheel for that slick & unmistakable arcade spinner heft/feel. I've got two of the awesome Taito DS paddle controllers myself (in both pink & black colored variants).

Unfortunately, the DS Lite's built-in Wi-Fi setup uses the old-school wi-fi a/b/g band spectrum if you want to play with others online.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Hoagtech]

I would like to compare my personal collection of the 3Ds XL {default ds mode}, Dsi XL, Ds Phat, & Ds Lite,

I lined up all consoles together with full screen brightness options on each system.

One thing off the bat I noticed was the terrible viewing angles on the Ds Phat's bottom screen (2nd to the right)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now the racers are: |-- Pink Shy Guy: 3Ds XL --| Mario: Dsi XL| -- White Shy Guy Ds Phat |-- Green Shy Guy Ds Lite --|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I am seeing is that the 3ds xl is a blurry mess and should be disqualified and before you ask the black bars are terrible in 1:1 mode making both modes sub par on the 3Ds XL


The Dsi XL has a moire pattern in the photo that is not evident by the naked eye, It looks almost the richest of colors and vibrancy with minimal polygon aliasing 2nd only to the Ds Lite


The Original Ds variant looks washed out possibly from my years of use and age of the unit but it is bad and as far as ghosting goes it is the worst


The Ds lite has the most vibrancy and color of all screens and the best definition. The aliasing seemed equal to the dsi XL but the white point was more noticeable as were the black colors and overall contrast ratio.



----------------------------------------------------------------
2nd Comparison Pics
----------------------------------------------------------------
3DS XL (default):


Dsi XL


Ds Phat OG: I can see the back light shining through, Bad corner lighting too.


Ds Lite:


From these pics the Ds lite looks better as well: In person the Dsi XL looked better than the photo but even so the Ds lite took the cake

-------------------------------------------
Ds Lite VS Dsi XL
-------------------------------------------

The Ds Lite and the Dsi XL were very close contenders. The colors were vibrant on both models. I spead up the chararacters on both consoles and spinned around to get a sense of the ghosting but neither models exhibited as much as the 3ds XL or the Phat systems so they are both solid

I will say the black levels and contrast ratio were better overall on the Ds lite.



--------------------------------------------------------

WINNER: Ds Lite

The Best Screen Award goes to the Ds lite for its excellent vibrant colors and smooth scrolling> Followed by a close second (Dsi XL)




BONUS

Here is a top view Front left to right: Dsi XL -- Ds Lite

Rear Left to right: 3Ds XL -- Ds Phat




Disclaimer: This test is subjective to my personal used equipment. The screens could be worn out on my older consoles but these are my opinions.







The

[Ikaruga11]

Absolutely amazing test, Hoagtech.

As expected, the DS Phat is the worst of the bunch. I knew the DS Lite and DSi XL would both come out on top, although I'm surprised the DS Lite had more vibrant colors and higher contrast than the DSi XL. The former uses dual TN screens while the latter uses dual IPS screens, so you'd think it would be the other way around.

Even though you say the black bars in 1:1 pixel DS mode on the 3DS are terrible, the default upscaled DS mode also has black bars as seen in your pictures. I think it's worth showing 1:1 pixel DS Mode on the 3DS, as it is a much better representation of the 3DS's potential. Also, your o3DS XL has dual TN screens. I would like to see how DS games look on a New 3DS [XL] with dual IPS screens. An interesting thing to note is that 1:1 pixel DS mode on a o2DS/o3DS has the smallest picture for DS games in the entire DS and 3DS family, giving it the highest pixels-per-inch. It would be great to see that compared to a DSi XL.