For what it's worth, Plasmo, you have always been 100% excellent with everyone, and I'd be willing to make special exceptions for someone like that. This, unfortunately, is not a special exception, but a pretty big deal.
I don't really see the comparison between platform and character. Character choice changes the game in a
big way, and you've stated so yourself. Barring
severe emulation bugs, an emulator would be largely identical. This is why GareMAME exists.
What I do has little to do with Arcadia, though it never hurts to see what they do. What I do concerns the nature of the game itself, and that generally has precedence over what the community wants, because people have this really bad habit of not using other characters when they don't "have" to (which would probably still happen if there was an overall board). In all the years I've been here, I've
heard about splits scaring people away, but I simply haven't seen it in practice... and there's a very clear reason for that.
iconoclast wrote:Feveron not being split by shot type is as stupid as any of the decisions Arcadia has made for Cave games. There's no way Lock/Roll/Bomb scores are comparable.
This guy gets it, though it would immediately become the CAVE game with the most categories, even when you start putting multiple versions together for some games. If I do that, then we're gonna have 20 boards at the bare minimum, Speed probably isn't a big enough deal. Does anyone else really want that? I mean, hey, I kinda do. But CAVE games are the ones that get the most traffic, even the older ones... I don't want another DDP on my hands, you know? One really old member and his buddy can cause a lot of trouble. You don't have that as much with something like Touhou, unless we resurrect someone from the forum graveyard somehow. I did have endo try to chew me out over Gunbird, though, so I guess Psikyo can be scary territory when it wants to be...
chum wrote:Shouldn't that be two to one since I'm the one who suggested splits in the first place, obviously I still think splits is the correct way to go about it, the only thing I can agree with on the other side is that there's not that many people playing, hence splits aren't as useful as they would be if the game was more popular. I also don't think you should give extra credence to someone's opinion based on their score in the game, just focus on the substance behind the arguments.
I just meant Cee and Plasmo going at it.
It's not so much that I'm giving extra credit, just that... the forum is looking dire, you know this. The only people that submit scores at all anymore is that small handful of people who really know or care about any of these games. What they say is really important, such as with iconoclast's post. That's something I've always wanted to do, but I made that board back when I wasn't sure people were gonna be okay with 20 boards for a game that used to have 4, and... only iconoclast has really chimed in on how it should be run. At some point I realized most people just don't care and started doing ridiculous things like Eiyashou etc.
This would be that reason I was talking about earlier.
I still want to open no-resource boards for Touhou... those should be separate threads though, and I want to at least be able to fill up Easy and Normal before I even think about posting such a thread. You could treat them like the No Laser stuff, it'd work out.
chum wrote:Solo runs and team runs are utterly incomparable and it is very disrespectful to solo players to say that their efforts don't count for anything because only team runs is the real deal. If I went back and worked on my team run I wouldn't consider the score superior to my Car-Pet run unless I beat it by at least like 5 million points or so? Team runs are harder yes but you also get a lot more score for playing them, so there's not much reason to compare a solo score with a team score by putting them in the same scoreboard, It's two completely different ways to play the game and the team way scores much higher yes that doesn't mean it's the only real way to play the game. Solo is interesting in its own way and all different characters have different gameplay and score potential meaning that obviously they should be separated like in other games like that. Team runs are also harder in the long run for an already really rough game so the option of playing solo is often enticing and I think that splitting characters also encourages the player to try out another character and see what you can do with them. Contrary to popular belief no characters in Batrider are "useless", useless for WR team composition yes, better or worse than others yes, but like in any other game with character selection, playing a certain character means you are playing a game with that character, that means that comparisons with scores done with a different character are always faulty since characters are different. Sure, to a degree you can always compare on some level, but Batrider is a good example of a game where different characters, and solo/team difference is simply too huge. Really, some people enjoy playing underpowered characters and seeing what you can do with them, and there's a lot of these to choose from in Batrider.
Yes, you end up with a fuckload of categories, but the only reason it looks like clutter and is disorienting is because the community itself doesn't get enough submissions, so you have almost all half-empty categories. All I can say is you have to ask yourself if you think doing it the right way is worth that extra trouble, and that I think that it is. Things should be done properly and that means splitting all the categories. I still maintain my previous suggestion that an overall leaderboard on top of the character splits is the best way to go about combining being proper and thorough with an accessible and easily understood format, thereby pleasing everyone.
This is basically me for the past seven years. Other than the bit at the end, we will always always always agree on this much. This is really important for games that have a very clear "best" character like Strikers 1999.
For the bit at the end, see the DDP mess. I do not believe in "pleasing everyone" by wasting space on an entire section of duplicate information in an intentionally misleading way, especially when "everyone" is a very small number that mostly consists of you guys. I sound like a database class now, don't I? Oh well.
Shepardus wrote:I personally would like to see some categories for "special" teams such as the "default" Batrider teams, all-Garegga teams, all-Mahou teams, etc. but that could easily get out of hand. Hard to satisfy everyone without a queryable database...
I think the current layout is pretty reasonable, covers all the distinctions that I think are actually important (let's not go as far as distinguishing between different button variants). I see that there are even headers for the default teams but they're all empty (first time I've noticed them myself, are those new? Maybe I'll put some more effort into those teams now). A combined board
in addition to the existing splits might make sense but I don't think it's much of a loss to not have one, if you're really interested it's not that hard to parse the scores yourself.
By the way, using the "start" rank (holding start on boot) is allowed and assumed, right? That's one other thing you could split by.
I wish there were real Garegga/Mahou teams! Hard to do much with four+four selectable characters in a three-team game, never mind poor Car-Pet over there.
Yeah, I made the default team sections when I made the split. I thought I said something? Maybe I should have said something...
Start rank trick is absolutely allowed, same as Garegga. I noticed some typos with the board, let's call that one of them.
No, we gotta split by Stage Edit too! And then have a section for random teams! Pray you get your top tiers.