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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:02 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
HiDefNES on the latest firmware cannot reproduce the true NES aspect ratio. NESRGB paired with the OSSC has no such issues. Additionally, the NES rgb kit allows for custom pallettes.

The HiDefNES is a compromise. Certainly not a "no brainer".


I've not paid much attention to HiDefNES, because honestly if I'm going to go digital, the Analogue NT Mini is the best option for that. The SD card lets you use as many palettes as you want, so no begging/harassing 'keymasters' to add in the latest palette work.

I will say that the NESRGB board into a Framemeister at the very least allows for aspect correction without pixel shimmer. Speaking of AR, proper aspect correction at 4x is 1168x960 for the NES. I'm getting a little annoyed how most think you're supposed to stretch the 256x240 image into a 4:3 shape, but that's not how it works on CRTs. The correct horizontal stretch formula for the NES is 256 * 8/7. Same thing for the Super NES, and even the 256 mode on the Genesis.
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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:03 am 


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If anyone regrets updating their firmware, you can get the older firmware here: http://blog.kevtris.org/blogfiles/
I think 2.25 Final would be what you would want.

I wrote to Kevtris, and let him know about the color issues, and requesting the interpolation back. I told him he should just take out some of the HQ scalers to make room for interpolation. He said that wouldn't be "so easy". But I tried. I hope he's able to work something out.
If I could just get 2.25 with all of it's palettes deleted (I mean, the FCEUX ones don't look correct, and what's the use of Black and White?), and the RGB ones from the new one, I would be happy. Oh, to dream.
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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:00 pm 


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FBX wrote:
...proper aspect correction at 4x is 1168x960 for the NES. I'm getting a little annoyed how most think you're supposed to stretch the 256x240 image into a 4:3 shape, but that's not how it works on CRTs. The correct horizontal stretch formula for the NES is 256 * 8/7. Same thing for the Super NES, and even the 256 mode on the Genesis.


1170x960, to be more precise. 256 * 4 * 8/7 = 1170.2857... :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:27 am 


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yxkalle wrote:
FBX wrote:
...proper aspect correction at 4x is 1168x960 for the NES. I'm getting a little annoyed how most think you're supposed to stretch the 256x240 image into a 4:3 shape, but that's not how it works on CRTs. The correct horizontal stretch formula for the NES is 256 * 8/7. Same thing for the Super NES, and even the 256 mode on the Genesis.


1170x960, to be more precise. 256 * 4 * 8/7 = 1170.2857... :mrgreen:


That was my original formula too, but the guy over at NESDEV said it was better to go correction before scaling since each integer would be a multiple of 2 or 4. This bears out in 2x scale for example, where scaling first gives an odd 585 horizontal res.
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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:26 am 


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Is it impossible to swap palettes in 2.25, or is that something only Kev can do?
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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:05 am 


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So, I'm guessing this is a "I'm glad you bought the board, now fuck off" kind of things, at this point?
I'm obviously semi-joking, so I don't want Kevin getting irate with me. :lol:

But there's honesty in many jokes....

Obviously either most people don't care if the colors look out of whack, or they don't care about interpolation whatsoever.
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Last edited by evil_ash_xero on Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:30 am 


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evil_ash_xero wrote:
So, I'm guessing this is a "I'm glad you bought the board, now fuck off" kind of things, at this point?
I'm obviously semi-joking, so I don't want Jason or Tim getting irate with me. :lol:

But there's honesty in many jokes....

Obviously either most people don't care if the colors look out of whack, or they don't care about interpolation whatsoever.


It's definitely a trade off. I'm still holding out hope for another firmware. We'll see.

On the bright side, the Hi Def NES is a handy lag tester with the 240p test suite, a little portable CRT, and a camera. So, I won't ever get rid of it.
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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:54 am 


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orange808 wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:
So, I'm guessing this is a "I'm glad you bought the board, now fuck off" kind of things, at this point?
I'm obviously semi-joking, so I don't want Jason or Kevin getting irate with me. :lol:

But there's honesty in many jokes....

Obviously either most people don't care if the colors look out of whack, or they don't care about interpolation whatsoever.


It's definitely a trade off. I'm still holding out hope for another firmware. We'll see.

On the bright side, the Hi Def NES is a handy lag tester with the 240p test suite, a little portable CRT, and a camera. So, I won't ever get rid of it.


If there are many people that have a problem with it, they should probably ask Kevin to do something about it. I'm sure if he's like "well, it's not just one or two people", then he MIGHT feel motivated to tinker around with it.
Maybe.
I'm just a bit puzzled by it....you have a bunch of palettes that are wrong. They are just not displayed properly, and might as well be called "misc. palette no 1 or 2". And then when the correct palettes are added, they are named something else, but he has to take out interpolation to make room for the correct palettes. Why not just delete the abnormal ones? I mean, they aren't "correct". They're just...whatever. Random. You like your reds purple? Well, this is the palette for you!
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Last edited by evil_ash_xero on Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:06 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
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You guys are mixing the makers of this device.

Tim Worthington makes the NESRGB; he has updated the firmware for it many times just for color palette.

The Hi def NES is made by Kevin Horton / Kevtris and sold by Jason from game-tech.us.


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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:31 pm 


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leonk wrote:
You guys are mixing the makers of this device.

Tim Worthington makes the NESRGB; he has updated the firmware for it many times just for color palette.

The Hi def NES is made by Kevin Horton / Kevtris and sold by Jason from game-tech.us.


You know...I know the difference, but I still screwed up the name. I'll change it.
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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:41 pm 



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I am the proud owner of a NES PAL HI Def HDMI up-to-date last FW (XMAS 80's gift). However to have the ultimate NES missing an element: new FPGA PPU improve sprite display (no flickering/lag ith lot of sprite in same scrren) and good speed for any region.
One guy begin a project called Universal PPU but never finished (see youtube link below). All code/scheme is avallable I can send it.

I contacted kevtris (Hidef HDMI and Anlog NT conceptor) but he have no interest.

Please someone can see this project for help NES community.


THX all

https://www.youtube.com/user/UniversalPPU


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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:05 pm 


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There's a new Replay board on the horizon. I'm hoping it will be more widely available and attract a bigger community than the current board.

Maybe we'll get an open source FPGA NES core...

Open source and a community is the only hope for proper emulation. This walled garden shit sucks.
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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:34 am 



Joined: 22 Mar 2016
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I'm thinking of getting the hi-def NES kit installed on my NES. However, I don't like that interpolation was removed on the latest firmware. That is a very significant feature and I just don't understand why it was removed and other insignificant features were kept. I would probably have the most recent firmware before v3.01 installed (I believe it is v2.25?) since that would have interpolation. I hope Kevtris can release an alternative version of firmware 3.01 where he keeps interpolation but removes things like "HQ4x". I know v2.25 would have the sound volume issues but can't I adjust the sound levels I would need to and is it possible to save my sound settings?

I don't like the FCEUX palette; how does the Beware palette look? Does the FCEUX palette look different on the Hi-def NES vs. on a PC? When I emulate, I usually use the Firebrand unsatured v6 palette.


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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:29 am 


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Brad251 wrote:
I'm thinking of getting the hi-def NES kit installed on my NES. However, I don't like that interpolation was removed on the latest firmware. That is a very significant feature and I just don't understand why it was removed and other insignificant features were kept. I would probably have the most recent firmware before v3.01 installed (I believe it is v2.25?) since that would have interpolation. I hope Kevtris can release an alternative version of firmware 3.01 where he keeps interpolation but removes things like "HQ4x". I know v2.25 would have the sound volume issues but can't I adjust the sound levels I would need to and is it possible to save my sound settings?

I don't like the FCEUX palette; how does the Beware palette look? Does the FCEUX palette look different on the Hi-def NES vs. on a PC? When I emulate, I usually use the Firebrand unsatured v6 palette.


I asked Kevtris to do just that. To take out the wonky palettes, and put interpolation back in (because with the old bad palettes, which look nothing like they're supposed to, and the newer ones, which are good....there is no space on it anymore for interpolation). He said it wouldn't be "that easy". Why? I dunno. In an act of sad desperation I offered him like 500 bucks to sort it out. :lol: Fuck, I'd give him more, if he would. But he's probably made all the money he needs off of that project, and is now working on the Super NT. So, he's not gonna be swayed by greenery.
You can download the old firmware, with a link I posted in this thread.
Be ready to hate the colors. To answer your question of how the palettes look....NOTHING like the actual palettes. They look like YUV versions, so the reds tend to be purple....things like that. They are palettes of their own. It's' a mess. I could take some photos. In fact, I think I will. Maybe making some noise about this will get something happening.

For me, this is a botched project. Fucked up colors, then no interpolation, so you have shitty scrolling (and no option to soften the image, if wanted).
So, I just use the older firmware, with the interpolation. I don't play it...ever, really. The colors piss me off, to no end.
Why would I play it, when my NESRGB looks GREAT.

For real though....what has to happen for other people to be able to mess around with the palettes and stuff like that? Does he have to make it open source? Can someone just figure it out? What's the deal?

I hope this becomes open source. It's fucking irritating. This was not cheap to get the board and then get it installed. And I had to buy a NES for it too. Jesus.
And nobody said shit about this, until months after it came out. Great eyes people have.
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Last edited by evil_ash_xero on Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:00 pm 


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This is FCEUX on my emulator. This is also what it looks like on the NESRGB.

Image


Image

And here is the the Hi Def NES's "interpretation" of FCEUX.

Image

Image


I mean, what the fuck is this? Purple? Green? Looks smashing. And you can bet the other games look just as nice.
Oh, but the new firmware has palettes that look "decent". But then you have to go without interpolation. So, have some nice shaky scrolling.
I cannot believe people aren't making more of a fuss about this. This sold a shit-ton.

Also, the other old palettes suck too. Just wonky colors all about.
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Last edited by evil_ash_xero on Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:47 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 744
evil_ash_xero wrote:
I asked Kevtris to do just that. To take out the wonky palettes, and put interpolation back in (because with the old bad palettes, which look nothing like they're supposed to, and the newer ones, which are good....there is no space on it anymore for interpolation). He said it wouldn't be "that easy". Why? I dunno. In an act of sad desperation I offered him like 500 bucks to sort it out. :lol: Fuck, I'd give him more, if he would. But he's probably made all the money he needs off of that project, and is now working on the Super NT. So, he's not gonna be swayed by greenery.

That's stupid. Why didn't he just replace the bad palettes with the new ones? I was intending to get a Hi-Def kit for my front-loader, but not after reading that and seeing the screenshots; yuck. :/


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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:19 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:
I asked Kevtris to do just that. To take out the wonky palettes, and put interpolation back in (because with the old bad palettes, which look nothing like they're supposed to, and the newer ones, which are good....there is no space on it anymore for interpolation). He said it wouldn't be "that easy". Why? I dunno. In an act of sad desperation I offered him like 500 bucks to sort it out. :lol: Fuck, I'd give him more, if he would. But he's probably made all the money he needs off of that project, and is now working on the Super NT. So, he's not gonna be swayed by greenery.

That's stupid. Why didn't he just replace the bad palettes with the new ones? I was intending to get a Hi-Def kit for my front-loader, but not after reading that and seeing the screenshots; yuck. :/


I dunno. I hope he comes to his senses.

But I get the feeling he's just "over it" now. I just hope to the Gods that someone else can fix it. Some day....
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Last edited by evil_ash_xero on Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:26 pm 


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interpolation AND a good set of palettes is reserved for a future $180 Nt Mini in a plastic shell.


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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:31 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
interpolation AND a good set of palettes is reserved for a future $180 Nt Mini in a plastic shell.


Man, I would be so pissed. :lol:
This just seems like an easy fix. Compared to all the other stuff that you have to do, to make this work.
I wouldn't have bought all this, if I knew the colors were gonna be so fugly. I was like "interpolation and FCEUX...I love that filter!". I was sold.
I feel ripped off.
And that last update was insult to injury.

I might take some more pics. Show off this beast. It's time the people know. :x
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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:24 pm 


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Sorry for the photos being a bit dark. But you get the picture with the colors.
What did Little Samson do to deserve this? Was his game too expensive?



FCEUX via NESTopia (same as NESRGB)

Image
Image
Image
Image

FCEUX via HD NES

Image
Image
Image
Image
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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:36 pm 


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And it's not my TV, as I took this pic from the Super NT, just the other day. Compared to it on my one of my SNES emulators.
Some color differences, probably due to color settings (probably have some "warm" setting going on with my PC)....but NOTHING like what's going on with that HD NES.
These both look good.

TV

Image

Emulator

Image
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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:25 am 


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Here's one of the new palettes that Kevtris added called "RGBSOURCE HYBRID". This is one that does not have interpolation.
I would prefer this one, if he could not come up with something that looked more like FCEUX. This is WAY better than the first batch of palettes.
But yeah, still doesn't look as good as FCEUX.

Image

Image

Image
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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:46 am 


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And finally, FCEUX on a CRT, via NESRGB.

Image

Image
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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:47 am 


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Looking at that new filter....I kind of just think he needs to fix the FCEUX filter.

Not gonna happen.

So, anyone who was gonna buy one of these, know what you're getting into.
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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:55 am 


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How can it be that thousands of people bought this device, and almost no one mentions this?
I feel like it's just me, or something.

And this community is so anal about this stuff. I'm very confused at the lack of....concern about it. People should have noticed this day one, and demanded a fix. It might have happened, if that took place, at that point in time.
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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:39 am 



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When the Super NT was reviewed before launch the colors were awful. Reviewers did not mention it at all. The issue was caused by mistakes in the YUV conversion for HQX filters and was fixed (with HQ filters off) in a later firmware.

It is likely that the Hi-def Nes and NT mini still have this issue and could be why the FCEU palette looks so off.


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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:05 pm 


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Well, I wish he'd fucking fix it.
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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:37 am 


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evil_ash_xero wrote:
Well, I wish he'd fucking fix it.


Kevtris is a businessman and he already has our money.

That's just how it goes.

Our only hope is open source firmware. Kevtris is busy with that Genny project, so the community is the only place to find the manpower to fix it.

Although, I'm still surprised anybody thinks that uneven columns and shimmering looks good. Or, maybe they think that wrong aspect ratio looks good. Whatever. An HDMI console should be plug and play; this one isn't. You need a video processor to get it right.
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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:50 am 


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orange808 wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:
Well, I wish he'd fucking fix it.


Kevtris is a businessman and he already has our money.

That's just how it goes.

Our only hope is open source firmware. Kevtris is busy with that Genny project, so the community is the only place to find the manpower to fix it.

Although, I'm still surprised anybody thinks that uneven columns and shimmering looks good. Or, maybe they think that wrong aspect ratio looks good. Whatever. An HDMI console should be plug and play; this one isn't. You need a video processor to get it right.


Your first sentence is what I always get from it. It's unfortunate, as businessmen can have more....integrity? Is that the right word? I dunno. Krikzz always seem to communicate with his customers, and listens to feedback. I'm sure he's made tons from all those EverDrives. They ain't cheap either.
I really think if more people said something, it would have helped. But, everyone seemed happy they could just play NES on an HDTV. Oh, the novelty!

I'm totally waiting on open source firmware, but I don't know if anyone is working on it. Do you know of anyone doing anything? We need a few heroes out there. It woldn't take much to get these things "perfect".

I do think the Hi Def NES is "faulty", and should ABSOLUTELY be fixed. Like that one is a real blight on Kev's record. The Super NT is a lot better. I would like different scalers, and some people have pointed out aspect ratio problems, in some resolutions... but I can't get mad at it, like the Hi Def NES. That thing is my dust collector. When I took all those pictures...that was the only time I broke it out in ages.
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 Post subject: Re: Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:20 pm 



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FWIW, the AVS has a similar limitation related to palettes. I'd love to be able to use the Wavebeam palette, but the AVS has hardcoded palettes as well. I'm not sure why these can't be loaded from the file system.


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