Console WARS: SFC vs MD vs TOWNS vs PCE vs ETC

[Xyga]

Aladdin

The MD one wins in style and atmosphere, the SNES one wins in gameplay, but neither is very good indeed, just generic platformers.

[qmish]

Buster's Hidden Treasure is best 16-bit platformer .

Those who prefer nes prequels can go far away.

[Sumez]

First NES Tiny Toons game is a severely underrated game I find. I always wondered why people hold Capcom's licensed platformers in so high regard, while Konami's were largely overlooked.
Actually no, I don't... It's because the Disney properties are obviously much more popular. Coincidentally, Konami's most popular licensed titles is the Turtles games. Because it's Turtles.

Tiny Toon Adventures is better than both Ducktales and Rescue Rangers. Its only problem is that it's too easy, but so are Capcom's games. If Hidden Treasure is even better, I really should get around to playing mine real soon.

[MJR]

Judging what is "best" console is not meaningful as they all have their own strengths.

But, PC-Engine Duo and it's myriad variants is easily the console I love most. All my treasured arcade games are actually better here, with added stages and features and enemies. And Rondo of Blood is one of the best platform games ever.

I have never loved any console or gaming system so much in my life, with the exception of my Jamma/Neo Geo arcade cab.

[Skykid]

I'll add that Tiny Toons: Buster Busts Loose on the SFC is great fun, highly varied and super slick. I'm surprised it's not mentioned more often.

[Strider77]

Strider is a big gun on the MD...

[WelshMegalodon]

Please don't start name dropping Strider as a Mega Drive big gun. It was hugely impressive for the time, but that port is flawed as fuck, as was elaborated on considerably in one of the Strider threads. I cleared arcade Strider multiple times and I just can't play MD Strider with any kind of conviction when the game's bugs are always threatening to rip me off from one moment to the next.

[BrianC]

I also found the GB Tiny Toons games to be very good. The first one put me off at first with its slow walking speed, but made up for it with some neat level designs and incredible music. The second one is also good, though the dash is a bit awkward to use.

SNES Aladdin wasn't bad, but felt like a poor man's Magical Quest Starring Mickey Mouse.

[soprano1]

Audio hardware discussion for MD/GEN:
https://soundcloud.com/retrogameaudio/the-sega-genesis

And newly released for the SFC/SNES:
https://soundcloud.com/retrogameaudio/the-snes

[Xyga]

I never knew The Lost World: Jurassic Park on the MD had those impressive 3D/scaling action mini-levels
http://youtu.be/XZljQT8k3Wg?t=20m50s
http://youtu.be/vwYGtDUccN0?t=25m58s
http://youtu.be/Du7uak4zsPk?t=13m19s
http://youtu.be/KasuYLtw3zM?t=26m2s
The game came out in 1997, much later than Contra HC, Panorama Cotton, Mickey Mania, Red Zone, Adv of Bat & Rob, Alien Soldier, Toy Story, and even after Sonic 3D Blast, when the console was mostly dead and about to be buried.
Apparently made by the same guys who did Exo Squad in 1995 which already had a little neat fullscreen fake-rotation visual trick though not unseen before and nothing much to wow you, but this is taken further here, except maybe the last one that seems to be only some looping animation.
Could be a case where the devs had gathered enough documentation/knowledge to shove advanced programming tricks into a well-paying licensed game oddjob without thinking too much...
Too bad similar things weren't more common on the system around 1991~93, when making tons of fancy-looking good games still mattered in the console wars competition.

[WelshMegalodon]

That game definitely deserves more recognition as a surprisingly decent licensed title and one of the few top-down action-adventure types on the system. Certainly not the best game ever, but it made good use of the license. I always thought missions like capturing Stegosaurus for research were neat, and exploration never felt tedious.

[WelshMegalodon]

So apparently Nakamura Masaya was enraged when, upon renewing their development agreement with Nintendo in the late 80s, Namco lost some of the benefits it received as an early developer for the Famicom and that's why Namco didn't have as strong a showing on the Super Famicom despite having developed a number of noteworthy titles for the Mega Drive and PC Engine. Is this true?

[Sumez]

Could be a case where the devs had gathered enough documentation/knowledge to shove advanced programming tricks into a well-paying licensed game oddjob without thinking too much...

I don't think those scenes really do anything special on the technical side of things. Every technique used has been seen in many other earlier MegaDrive games. But they did have the skill to really make the effect pop and look cool, which says more about their game design skills than their ability to push the hardware.

[Xyga]

I don't think those scenes really do anything special on the technical side of things. Every technique used has been seen in many other earlier MegaDrive games. But they did have the skill to really make the effect pop and look cool, which says more about their game design skills than their ability to push the hardware

'Many' is exaggerating IMHO in that you don't see scenes with combinations of different techniques at the same time so massive and so fluid in a lot of games. The t-rex escape scene for instance has massive multi-jointed sprites (t-rex), what seems to be foreground mirrored-deformed sprite layer or whatever it's called that you control (car+basket), and the soil+fence which seems to be a short animation but with enough frames to appear very smooth. All at the same time.
The bike and raft scenes also manage to imitate a fluid sprites scaling (+ fullscreen 'deformation-rotation' for the bike) that I haven't seen much if at all so big and smooth.

Sure, as I said there's nothing unseen before but it's comparable to later games such as Contra HC, Adv. of B&R, Toy Story etc. there's been very little stuff pre-94/95/96 that used fancy visual effects so nonchalantly on the MD. In that perspective what we see in Lost World is kind of special, a thing of a select few club, even if it's just presentation and a later game few people noticed.
My point then is that, would there have been more stuff like that earlier (92~93), that would have helped increase the 'wow' factor for the MD that was clearly lacking a bit when the SNES arrived with its easy Mode 7 stuff.
Think about it; shift the MD's releases by -1 year vs. the SNES's and the market dominance of the latter wouldn't have been so evident.

EDIT: many typos wordz n'shit. I suck.

EDIT: just to be clear, there were plenty of very good looking MD games with beautiful sprite work and pixel art already around 90~92, but the use of visual effects/tricks (scaling, deformation, rotation, fake textured polygon-like effects etc) was scarce until 93 with games such as Gunstar Heroes and Ranger X, and it really took off in 94, which I find a bit too late considering the direct competition of the SNES, and the PSX being only one year away.

[Kollision]

Strider is a big gun on the MD...

I prefer MD Strider to arcade Strider.

[Skykid]

Strider is a big gun on the MD...

I prefer MD Strider to arcade Strider.

...I'd love to know why.

[Strider77]

Same reason you throw around undercover cops as a big gun on the SFC... a game severely shadowed by Strider regardless if it's on MD or PCB/PS1.

[Kollision]

Strider is a big gun on the MD...

I prefer MD Strider to arcade Strider.

...I'd love to know why.

I don't know man....
I grew up loving MD Strider, such an amazing game apart from the extremely short length.

The main draw for me was that the character in the MD port is larger than in the arcade. It just feels... bolder, I guess.

[Skykid]

I don't know man....
I grew up loving MD Strider, such an amazing game apart from the extremely short length.

The main draw for me was that the character in the MD port is larger than in the arcade. It just feels... bolder, I guess.

Right, so it's a nostalgia thing? I was looking for something more technical, but I can live with nostalgia.

When attempting to 1CC the game (and ultimately doing so several times) I played cross format between arcade and MD, and I can assure you the MD version is buggy to the point of broken. If the game kills your run because of something that's not your fault, it's got problems, and MD Strider does that a lot because the code and play testing seem rushed. It's a shame because visually it's very articulate and the bigger sprite is definitely a plus point, even if you grow to have an attachment to the arcade squat variation.

But in comparison? Arcade is by far the more robust game, and that's even with a couple bugs of its own!

[Kollision]

well, it's true, I spent very little time with the arcade original
and yes it might be a nostalgia thing
but as a kid I never really cared about bugs

[CIT]

Cool thread!

I think ultimately it's pointless to discuss whether Super Famicom, Mega Drive or PC Engine is best, because they're all unique systems with their own strengths and weaknesses, and you can't really be a serious gamer without appreciating all three.

I think the SFC has the most even spread of quality titles across all genres. Even in areas where the SFC is considered weak (like shoot 'em ups) you will find at least one or two titles that are among the best from their time. And the graphics are obviously prettiest.

The MD excels in terms of the types of games I most prefer, with an incredible array of fast paced arcade-style action titles. The bass-heavy and crisp FM really underscoring the intensity of the action in many games. (On the other hand, the SFC's characteristic sound has aged really poorly, in my opinion. It just sounds farty and cheap today.)

The PC Engine library has some significant omissions (no good run & gun or beltscrollers), but it really used the abilities of the CD format to full effect and its standout titles, Rondo of Blood and Ys IV, as well as the strong lineup of shooters eclipse their 16bit competitors in their respective genres.

[gameoverDude]

Cool thread!

I think ultimately it's pointless to discuss whether Super Famicom, Mega Drive or PC Engine is best, because they're all unique systems with their own strengths and weaknesses, and you can't really be a serious gamer without appreciating all three.

I think the SFC has the most even spread of quality titles across all genres. Even in areas where the SFC is considered weak (like shoot 'em ups) you will find at least one or two titles that are among the best from their time. And the graphics are obviously prettiest.

The MD excels in terms of the types of games I most prefer, with an incredible array of fast paced arcade-style action titles. The bass-heavy and crisp FM really underscoring the intensity of the action in many games. (On the other hand, the SFC's characteristic sound has aged really poorly, in my opinion. It just sounds farty and cheap today.)

The PC Engine library has some significant omissions (no good run & gun or beltscrollers), but it really used the abilities of the CD format to full effect and its standout titles, Rondo of Blood and Ys IV, as well as the strong lineup of shooters eclipse their 16bit competitors in their respective genres.

PC Engine does have Double Dragon II for belt-scrollers. Very decent, even if it's not on Streets of Rage's level.
Super Aleste's soundtrack is good on SFC.

Regarding Thunder Force III and its SNES counterpart Thunder Spirits, I do like the MD BGM better. Same goes for TF AC which runs on MD arcade hardware. Both sound systems have their own strengths and weaknesses.

Then you have situations like MD Midnight Resistance vs. Arcade MR. The Genesis version has better BGM than the arcade, though the graphics take the hit. A hack for MAME that would allow Genesis BGM to be used on the arcade one would be great.

[WelshMegalodon]

Introducing one of the the slowest, least arcade-like experiences you'll ever find on the Mega Drive... Micronet's Caesar no Yabou II:



Image courtesy of byuu's Twitter.

[Skykid]

Same reason you throw around undercover cops as a big gun on the SFC... a game severely shadowed by Strider regardless if it's on MD or PCB/PS1.

I've never cited UCs as a "big gun" for the SFC, only as an incredibly impressive arcade port regarding its maintained graphical fidelity and general faithfulness of play. UCs is brutal almost to a fault, and although the conversion (properly) softens the challenge slightly, it's still a rather thankless game to try and clear.

If we're talking pure port accuracy though, UCs is similar to MD Strider, just with way less game ruining bugs in the code.