Input Lag Free HDTV?

[evil_ash_xero]

Hmm...well, I am more interested in console gaming anyway.
However, these TVs are all huge.

I'm thinking about getting this one, mainly because of it's size and low input lag. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N4 ... 20&ie=UTF8

At the same time, I don't want a bad picture. Also at the same time, I'm assuming it will have a better picture than my Samsung. As long as it's not a downgrade.

[Lawfer]

Hmm...well, I am more interested in console gaming anyway.

Then get whatever, console gaming right now is limited to native 1080p60Hz at most with 30-60fps for games.

Here is a good list if you care about performance and/or visual improvement on PS4 Pro:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1324251

[evil_ash_xero]

I'll probably end up going with this, if I can fit it somewhere.
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/tcl/s- ... -2017-s405

I'd have more space in my game room, if it wasn't for my monstrous Sony CRT.

What do you think, Xyga? You seem to be the most critical, on these TVs.

[Xyga]

Planning a very budget option now with the idea of saving and buying a high-end model similar to the B7 or C7 OLED in 2~3 years from now (and therfeore featuring HDMI 2.1)
...
...
Then I get that TCL, yeah.

Although personally I dislike PWM flicker so I usualy stay away from sets that have it. In the budget range there isn't much PWM-free + low lag choice I'm afraid, only a handful of Full-HD 32" pc monitors.

[evil_ash_xero]

I don't think I can get a low lag TV, that's around 43 inches or lower, that isn't "budget". I really want to avoid going over a frame.
This TV would be used PURELY for gaming.

I would get something more far out and laggy, for the living room. No consoles in there.

OK, last question for you, Xyga. Would you go with that TCL or the LG? This one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N4 ... 20&ie=UTF8

[Xyga]

lag has no relation to price and size

EDIT: the LG is inferior to the TCL imho

[evil_ash_xero]

lag has no relation to price and size

EDIT: the LG is inferior to the TCL imho

OK.

I know, I just can't seem to find one around the 43 inch mark, that has sub one frame, and is a good TV. Other than the ones I have found.
Almost everything is 55 and up.

[paulb_nl]

This is why if you care about picture quality you shouldn't even enable "Game Mode" in the first place.

I'm not so sure about that, video game graphics don't usually benefit from any of the gimmicks or processing features that a lot of TVs employ. I actually think a lot of video and Movie content can also suffer quite a bit with a lot of those unnecessary and sometimes broken "enhancement" features.

It depends on the TV. My Sony 40W4000 has less then a frame of input lag and it doesn't even have a game mode. I have seen a 3000 euro Samsung 4K TV in action where turning on game mode disables almost all color settings and makes the image colors look like garbage.

[Xyga]

@e-a-x: small to mid sizes like 32" and 42~43" aren't massively popular in the US where larger sets usually sell more, and since it's the #1 market for TVs manufacturers naturally put more r&d effort into biggers models.

[evil_ash_xero]

I'm just gonna have to wait it out. It's ridiculous that I can't get a 43 inch TV with low input lag AND good picture quality.

Hopefully the future will bring something better. Probably not though. I'll probably have to add an extra room for a TV the size of my bed.

[bobrocks95]

I think at this point it's more likely there'll start to be ~40" monitors than TVs getting smaller again. I'd want 65" at least for a 4K screen, so I'm part of the problem

[Xyga]

^ this, more big monitors are being released and it seems there's actually quite a bit of demand for good 32" and 43" on the gaming side, but it's still mostly unsatisfied. idk wtf manufacturers are thinking.

[evil_ash_xero]

^ this, more big monitors are being released and it seems there's actually quite a bit of demand for good 32" and 43" on the gaming side, but it's still mostly unsatisfied. idk wtf manufacturers are thinking.

I'd be up for a 43 in monitor. What's the biggest that's out thus far?

I think at this point it's more likely there'll start to be ~40" monitors than TVs getting smaller again. I'd want 65" at least for a 4K screen, so I'm part of the problem

I just don't have the space for these huge TVs. I mean, I'd have to rearrange furniture and all kinds of crap.

[FinalBaton]

I'm just gonna have to wait it out. It's ridiculous that I can't get a 43 inch TV with low input lag AND good picture quality.

Hopefully the future will bring something better. Probably not though. I'll probably have to add an extra room for a TV the size of my bed.

42-46" sets are mostly dead in NA. It's a sad reality but we need to accept it. After all, if they stopped making 'em, that means that it's probably because people weren't buying them en masse. So it's understandable. They are a businesses after all

Believe me, I hate that too. The optimum size for my place would be 43" and that's what I'm looking at for my new TV.

Thankfully that TCL set seems pretty nice, so that's one option right there (altough the optimum viewing angle seems pretty damn narrow and it's not exactly the brightest set... otherwise seems pretty nice and is cheap).

Another awesome option, if you're willing to stretch to a 49" screen, is the Sony XBR-49X900E. Not the lowest lag ever at 36ms(Leo Bodnar test from Rtings) but still very playable, and the picture quality is supposedly amazing for an LCD.

[evil_ash_xero]

The Sony's have disappointingly (and surprisingly) more lag than I'd expect.

[FinalBaton]

Welp. It has never actually dawned on me to check at monitor for my 43" screen needs... *slaps forhead*

Is there any drawback in getting a monitor versus a true blue "TV" (I mean apart from the TV tuner. which I don't care about since since decoders have HDMI outs now)?

[evil_ash_xero]

https://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-L ... 3547809011

One person complained the text was too pixelated. But I don't know if that would affect gaming, or if he was just talking about internet stuff.
The thing looks like a Goliath.

[Xyga]

I'd be up for a 43 in monitor. What's the biggest that's out thus far?

There's been a couple of 40~43" but mostly flawed crap, don't remember the names, one was a philips iirc.

Otherwise a very small club of 32" 4K monitors like the BenQ BL3201PT and maybe the more recent LG 32UD89 and higher-end brother 32UD99 w/ HDR, or 43UD79, though I haven't read reviews for the latter three yet.

Everything else 'big' is 21:9 aspect ratio.

The Sony's have disappointingly (and surprisingly) more lag than I'd expect.

And that's really too bad since they're overall technicaly better-engineered, better rounded sets.

Is there any drawback in getting a monitor versus a true blue "TV"

advantages: often easily better response and lag performance as well as compatibility, also many feature g-sync and freesync: nice bonus for pc/emu

disadvantages: not as bright as TVs so no HDR if that counts, except for some upcoming super-expensive models. also less connectivity, very bare picture adjustments, and often grainier coatings
note there's also much less choice for VA panels, it's the world of IPS, monitors rarely make good 'TVs'

[FinalBaton]

The Sony's have disappointingly (and surprisingly) more lag than I'd expect.

It's def playable though

4k @ 60Hz : 34.1 ms
1080p @ 60Hz : 31.5 ms
4k @ 60Hz + HDR : 34.2 ms
1080p @ 60Hz + HDR : 32.5 ms

Also, Rtings' lag tests have like 16ms on those 2015 Sony sets that tested at 7ms elsewhere, so their lag figures might be bigger than reality.
Maybe someone can expand on that?

[Xyga]

elsewhere

Where ?

If the lag is taken at the top of the screen it's about 8ms smaller. But besides monitors reviewing websites I don't know places where they get the lag measurement from the top of the screen.

[FinalBaton]

If the lag is taken at the top of the screen it's about 8ms smaller. But besides monitors reviewing websites I don't know places where they get the lag measurement from the top of the screen.

That might very well explain the discrepency I've seen

Also HDTVtests.co.uk shows both camera capture AND Leo Bodnar, so maybe the camera one is where I saw those lower figures.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kdl42w70 ... 233639.htm

Also, Fudoh's guide to those Sony sets had the lower figures IIRC and if it's the case then it obviously was in reference to the camera capture method.

[Lawfer]

The Sony's have disappointingly (and surprisingly) more lag than I'd expect.

What did you expect? The good Sony TVs now are all MINIMUM 55", just like all the good Sony TVs were 46" MINIMUM 10 years ago.

[Ikaruga11]

That is honestly baffling to me.

Do manufacturers seriously not make 40" - 49" TVs anymore? I have a 46" Samsung 1080p LED TV downstairs that we bought in 2012. Seems like a happy medium. Why would they not make televisions in those sizes anymore?

[Xyga]

Like I said imho it's because the US market by itself influences their choices in parts purchasing and manufacturing, more so that the rest of the world.

Every year the big figures and trends are made there, and more than once since events like the superbowl seriously boost the sales.

let's face it; Americans have more room and consume/renew displays more, that also explains why the competition and therefore prices are more advantageous, in Europe identical displays are often more expensive

[Guspaz]

Tastes evolve. When I was growing up, we had a 19" television, and we watched that from the same distance that I watch my 80" projection screen today.

40-46" seems tiny to me. I wouldn't want to go back to televisions of that size, not without significantly reducing my viewing distance.

[Lawfer]

That is honestly baffling to me.

Do manufacturers seriously not make 40" - 49" TVs anymore? I have a 46" Samsung 1080p LED TV downstairs that we bought in 2012. Seems like a happy medium. Why would they not make televisions in those sizes anymore?

Sony latest flagship TV:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XD4QHQB/

Minimum: 55"

Maximum: 77"

Tastes evolve. When I was growing up, we had a 19" television, and we watched that from the same distance that I watch my 80" projection screen today.

40-46" seems tiny to me. I wouldn't want to go back to televisions of that size, not without significantly reducing my viewing distance.

Indeed, even back in the late 90's a 20"-21" TV was considered big size and it was luxury (at least in Europe). Now 46" is too small...

[Elrinth]

i have one of those Bravia Sony tvs 65". KD-65XD8577 so it's a bit older model and I can confirm that the lag is noticable I'm very at awe for the tvs Bahn Yuki shows here. Vizio doesn't exist here.
I also want to say that these new android-based tvs have a tendency so have bugs. like you need to shut off the tv completely sometimes in order to get your video game to show up.
Also sometimes the tv would freeze for a short while when you are doing something (like changing apps on it or stuff like that) then reboot.
Switching channels is so slow on all these new tvs aswell.
hdmi handshaking is slow aswell

[Xyga]

Indeed, even back in the late 90's a 20"-21" TV was considered big size and it was luxury (at least in Europe)

You're exaggerating a bit, 21" were pretty common by the late 90's, it's the 27" and up, also 16:9 that were luxuries.

edit:

That might very well explain the discrepency I've seen

Also HDTVtests.co.uk shows both camera capture AND Leo Bodnar, so maybe the camera one is where I saw those lower figures.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kdl42w70 ... 233639.htm

Also, Fudoh's guide to those Sony sets had the lower figures IIRC and if it's the case then it obviously was in reference to the camera capture method.

Really? iirc it was the top bar of the LB tester. SMtt 2.0 result or LB top bar reading are roughtly the same thing. But people have that obsession of reading and telling only about the middle bar...

[Lawfer]

I'm very at awe for the tvs Bahn Yuki shows here. Vizio doesn't exist here.

Where is "here"?

I looked into Vizio not long ago because they had some TVs (not monitors) which had DisplayPort inputs (that's very rare for TVs, as DisplayPort like DVI is a PC input) and they simply do not distribute their TVs in Europe.

[bobrocks95]

An economist could probably find a correlation between the collapse of the American middle class and the disappearance of midrange/midsized TVs. It's all giant 4K sets, or 32" budget sets, and that must reflect the market.