What's with all these stones (and other oddities)?

SteevTee · Post by **SteevTee** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:32 pm

I've been watching some of the vids on superplay recently, and have noticed how some of the final bosses have some sort of diamond/stone as a final boss (Ikaruga, Radiant Silvergun [Stone-like], Raiden series). I saw some other stone type thing at the end of another vert I played recently too.

What the hell is that all about?

Are there any others which have these weird end of game 'bosses'?

Plasmo · Post by **Plasmo** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:32 pm

psyvariar

Post by **Icarus** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:50 pm

Radiant Silvergun:
Giant diamond-shaped alien artifact is dug out of an excavation site. During testing, the artifact triggers and wipes out everything on the planet. Silvergun team witnesses the apocalyptic event while testig the Silvergun ships in orbit, and tries to do someting about it, eventually...

< SPOILER! >:
... travelling far back in time to destroy the artifact itself. Since nearly all of humankind is destroyed, the last two humans (and the Silvergun pilots Buster and Reana) are used to restart the human race using cloning/artificial insemination/whatever... (the Saturn Mode ending movie is far better to watch to get an understanding of this in effect.)
< /SPOILER! >

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Ikaruga:
Similar alien artifact is discovered, leading to a war between two factions (I think). Shinra (the main character) while fighting an aerial battle, crash lands near a remote village after taking heavy damage. Nursed back to health by some random healer guy, discovers the true nature of the artifact, and is asked by random healer guy to destroy it....

< SPOILER! >:
... and is given the Ikaruga ship to pilot in this mission. The game ends with Shinra disabling the power limitation controls on his ship, and unloading maximum homing plasma on the artifact, resulting in the destruction of the artifact and the Ikaruga ship. And all is saved, thanks to Shinra's heroic sacrifice. *sniff*
< /SPOILER! >

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Raiden:
Haven't a clue about the origins of the diamond-shaped device that is present in all of the early Raidens, although I suspect that it is of a similar nature to the Silvergun/Ikaruga ones. Perhaps this alien artifact takes control of various machines of war on Earth, and tries to use them against humans? Like a diamond-shaped alien virus. ^_-

It would explain why the Raiden ships take off into space to continue the battle.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Psyvariar:
The various diamond-shaped bosses are the forms of the various computer cores, and the Psyvariars are sent to destroy these cores. Another "giant central computer system gains self-awareness and attempts to eradicate human existence" maybe?

LoneSage · Post by **LoneSage** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:00 pm

Ah, Silvergun makes sense now.
Thanks Icarus.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:42 pm

Icarus wrote:Radiant Silvergun:
Giant diamond-shaped alien artifact is dug out of an excavation site. During testing, the artifact triggers and wipes out everything on the planet. Silvergun team witnesses the apocalyptic event while testig the Silvergun ships in orbit, and tries to do someting about it, eventually...

< SPOILER! >:
... travelling far back in time to destroy the artifact itself. Since nearly all of humankind is destroyed, the last two humans (and the Silvergun pilots Buster and Reana) are used to restart the human race using cloning/artificial insemination/whatever... (the Saturn Mode ending movie is far better to watch to get an understanding of this in effect.)
< /SPOILER! >

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Ikaruga:
Similar alien artifact is discovered, leading to a war between two factions (I think). Shinra (the main character) while fighting an aerial battle, crash lands near a remote village after taking heavy damage. Nursed back to health by some random healer guy, discovers the true nature of the artifact, and is asked by random healer guy to destroy it....

< SPOILER! >:
... and is given the Ikaruga ship to pilot in this mission. The game ends with Shinra disabling the power limitation controls on his ship, and unloading maximum homing plasma on the artifact, resulting in the destruction of the artifact and the Ikaruga ship. And all is saved, thanks to Shinra's heroic sacrifice. *sniff*
< /SPOILER! >

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Raiden:
Haven't a clue about the origins of the diamond-shaped device that is present in all of the early Raidens, although I suspect that it is of a similar nature to the Silvergun/Ikaruga ones. Perhaps this alien artifact takes control of various machines of war on Earth, and tries to use them against humans? Like a diamond-shaped alien virus. ^_-

It would explain why the Raiden ships take off into space to continue the battle.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Psyvariar:
The various diamond-shaped bosses are the forms of the various computer cores, and the Psyvariars are sent to destroy these cores. Another "giant central computer system gains self-awareness and attempts to eradicate human existence" maybe?

Vexorg · Post by **Vexorg** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:17 am

Icarus wrote: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Raiden:
Haven't a clue about the origins of the diamond-shaped device that is present in all of the early Raidens, although I suspect that it is of a similar nature to the Silvergun/Ikaruga ones. Perhaps this alien artifact takes control of various machines of war on Earth, and tries to use them against humans? Like a diamond-shaped alien virus. ^_-

It would explain why the Raiden ships take off into space to continue the battle.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The only indication I've ever seen of any sort of plot for Raiden comes from the manual from the Genesis version of Raiden Trad, which isn't much more than standard throwaway shmup plot. Basically, it says (using plenty of Engrish) that in 2090 aliens attack Earth, and scientists created the Raiden (a "supersonic fighter bomb" based on recovered alien technology. Beyond that, you don't even get any attempt at a backstory until Raiden Fighters 2, and that's just more throwaway plot stuff.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:32 am

The final boss of Mars Matrix is a crystal-like stone object, that appears to be possessed by something? I dunno.

WarpZone · Post by **WarpZone** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:12 am

*Treasure game spoilers*

The gold diamond ("the Stone-Like") is Treasure's metaphysical representation of Earth. It defines life; it is its creator, its protector.

In Radiant Silvergun, it resets the world- by being "found" at a time when people don't think of the consequences of their actions and care for war more than peace. The theme is about people understanding things only after the fact ("Now that it's done, I've begun to see the reason why we are here...") and the game ends with a new cycle of humanity starting (triggered by the pilots, "Adam and Eve"), and the hope that this time people will live together and understand each other.

In Ikaruga, the Stone-Like is found once again, its power abused by an empire that conquers neighboring lands in the name of God. Shinra fights against this empire, but crashes his ship in a village of exiles- an accident that should have taken his life. Even though he could possibly live out the rest of his days in the safety of the village, his own will prompts him to go on ("I am not alive, thus I cannot die") and fights in search of true freedom. Although he may not yet understand, perhaps the Stone-Like is calling to him (and possibly saved him in the crash). With the assistance of the villagers, he uses the Ikaruga ship to defeat the empire- and the Stone-Like comes into view. Here its appearance is understood- it is the only entity that is definite, rather than relative, in its function- hence it appears pure and gold, not black or white. At last, it sets Shinra free in the transcendent final scene ("Life is given from one generation to the next one").

In Sin & Punishment, we see the Stone-Like briefly before the final boss, representing what Saki chooses to protect, ruined as it may be ("I understand. I am of this planet").

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:11 am

*****MAJOR SPOILERS IF YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED/BEATEN/WATCHED VIDS OF IKARUGA/RADIANT SILVERGUN*********

I credit all this info I've found from Greng.com and the guy who wrote this FAQ: Pierre "Saffran" Bancov (with some side reference from BlueWizard13) My notes are in Green.

It is speculatory for me to note that throughout the summary of Chapter 5 of Ikaruga, the conversation seems to be between Shinra himself, Amanai, Kagari, and Horai, the Psychic Woman (!!) who first came across the Ubusunagami Ouki no Kai (Power of the Gods), the formal name of the Stone-Like. Apparently she discovered this stone in a deep prehistoric cave underground (just like in RS), and claimed it had the power of God and so began to conquer the nations with her fleet of Hittekai and Butsutekkai.

METEMPSYCHOSIS

"And then the Karma will go back
To the will it belonged to before,
And will shake awake the First One,
The first conscious being still present
At the deepest corner of one's memories.
And so, the Ikaruga departs..."

Alternate translation to this:
"A fate brings its will back to the original place and awakens the first
conscience engraved on the deep valley of memory. This is what drives
Ikaruga..."

-Story-
Perhaps Shinra himself is aware that his days are numbered.

"I have never accomplished anything properly. But this time, may God hear my prayer once and for all."

Shinra breaks into the underground mainstay of the Country of Horai and
confronts "Horai Tenro." Original words are repeated in vain. Meanwhile, Shinra hears the voice of a spiritual being he encountered in his dream.
Shinra exerts all his remaining strength to defeat Horai and sees...

Tageri (4 Snake Head Mode):

"I am the One who allows you to live.
I told you to seek to walk down the right path...
Are you telling me you don't understand this?"

Tageri (2 Headed-Snake Mode):

"You can't feel what you see...
Feel Visible Matter -Radiant Silvergun reference.
But you can feel what you don't see.
Feel Invisible Matter. -RS
Is that what you're trying to tell me?"

Tageri (Final Form Yin/Yang Sphere):

"You are aware of this, too, aren't you?
Until the very end of Time,
you won't ever escape this Metempsychosis"
Metampsychosis is defined as Godhood or in this case attached to the spiral of Godhood.

"And so... walk that path until the End, so you don't regret anything.
'I am not alive, thus I can't die.
I won't give up even if my Ideal isn't fulfilled.
My will, just as my regrets, won't ever die... '
We should all have known this!
Do you think we will ever see the Freedom?"

(Tageri is Destroyed, all that remains is Stone-Like)

"Restrain devices are deactivated, you can't shoot anymore."

(Stone-Like Barrages you, and after 60 seconds ceases fire after you managed to Dodge/Absorb maximum energy)

"Release the restrain device. Using the released power may result the possibility of destruction of the ship."

"You did your best. Was I helpful for you?"
I do not recall ever hearing the first part of this line ("You did your best") in the vocoder, in either arcade mode or anywhere else and I listened to a every word of the quote.

"I am deeply grateful to you."

(Ikaruga/Ginkei unleash their ships full power and self-destruct. This results in the final destruction of the Stone-Like.)

Kagari: "Do you think... we did the right thing?"

Shinra: "It's alright... I'm sure that sometimes, The day will come where we understand each other. RS again.

Kagari: "And then we'll walk together into the far future... Because Life is given from one generation to the next one"

And lastly some side-notes written about the themes in DC Sound-Test, and Hourai Tenrou herself:

Hourai Tenrou:
She was an Esper, so when she found the Stone-like in a desert cave in the depths of her country, she was downright assaulted with strong empathic waves. She believed they were a sign of the Gods, but she harmonized them to her own psychic waves without realizing the true intentions of the Stone-like. Soon afterwards she went berserk.

For all official means, she was driven by her devotion to her holy goal, but in her insanity, she decided to implement the Stone-like within her own ship, and in order to achieve that placed restrictive devices on it. Then she started the war.

She should be still young, but her face is full of wrinkles, and her hair is of a pure white, letting her appear very old.

Metempsychosis:
(Not yet... I can't... let it end now. I have to hold on... just a little bit more)

Shinra was slowly loosing consciousness, his only support being his mental strength.

Shinra and Co faced Hourai deep into the basement of the headquarters. One more chance was given, a futile attempt to convince with words.

During this, Shinra heard the voices of spirit beings, which he had seen before in his dreams.

And then, as Shinra went beyond his last limits to defeat Hourai, the golden glowing rock of the Stone-like God revealed himself for every eye to see.

"Chief... engineer. Could you... drop the restrain devices?"

The Stone-like:

Amanai, having noticed Shinra's physical state, ordered him to retreat, since anything more would be useless. However, Shinra didn't change his mind. Kagari, who was the only one to understand this attitude, replied to the disapproving elders:

(to Shinra) "And so... walk that path until the End, so you don't regret anything. (addressing the elders) 'I am not alive, thus I can't die. I won't give up even if my Ideal isn't fulfilled. My will, just as my regrets, won't ever die... ' We should all have known this."

Then, turning again to Shinra: "Do you think we will ever see the Freedom?"

He replied softly : "Yeah... very soon."

After a long silence, Old Man Kazamori whispered: "I see. Indeed, we should have known." He ordered Amanai to disactivate the restrain devices.

"But... but then he only has one shot! Only one! Do you understand what it means?"

"Chief engineer... I believe in you."

When Amanai heard Shinra's words, he lost his composure and started to weep.

Phew...hope that explains much...you can read the whole thing at Pierre "Saffran" Bancov's FAQ at Gamefaqs DC section of Ikaruga.

Macaw · Post by **Macaw** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:51 pm

Lets not forget Raycrisis's last boss!!

FRO · Post by **FRO** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:15 pm

Macaw wrote:Lets not forget Raycrisis's last boss!!

Or the oversized "coin" thing at the end of Giga Wing!

SteevTee · Post by **SteevTee** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:22 pm

Great insight to all those games, thanks. Seems to be a fascination with abstract/geometric objects for forms of intelligence.

Not sure which game it is (played through mame, it was a manic vert...), but a final boss which also falls into this category: it's just a small brown rubik's cube type thing, made up of mini cubes.

WarpZone wrote:The gold diamond ("the Stone-Like") is Treasure's metaphysical representation of Earth. It defines life; it is its creator, its protector.

Sounds like the story writers at Treasure have read the Space Odyssey series too many times...

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:58 pm

Thunder Cross also features some crystals controlling enemy boss ships.

Plasmo · Post by **Plasmo** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:07 pm

Not sure which game it is (played through mame, it was a manic vert...), but a final boss which also falls into this category: it's just a small brown rubik's cube type thing, made up of mini cubes.

Giga Wing

FatCobra · Post by **FatCobra** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:37 pm

Anyone know what the story of Raiden is supposed to be about? And does the Fighters spinoff have any relation to it?

I think I remember reading somewhere that the Raiden was built using the aliens' technology and retrofitting it onto a typical jet fighter.