Why can't religious people lighten up a bit? A polite rant

[judesalmon]

If I'm right, then... atheists go to hell and are tortured forever and ever. Well, pending on what you believe. Personally, I like one sect of Christianity's belief that those people just cease to exist, as opposed to being punished for believing in something they could not logically come to believe. But if logic was involved, it wouldn't faith, and therefore pointless.

What about people who have no conept of Christianity? Do they go to Hell/cease to exist also?

There are no doubt people around the world who have never been told about Jesus Christ, so have no opportunity to let him into their hearts, so by your rationale will no be entitled to enter the afterlife.

Or is that just atheists?

[judesalmon]

But anyway the point I was trying to make is that the way those muslims reacted to the cartoons clearly states they are not grown up.
They are a bunch of schoolkids who like to settle arguments with violence.
Do you really think that if it was the other way around we westerners would act the same as them. Burning flags,cars,houses,people... ?

I'm not even to get into this - your concept of Islam is clearly skewed.

[sethsez]

Somehow I knew most of you would pick that one slight piece out though... reading and responding to the entire posts has never been something people regularly do on here.

Hey, speaking of reading comprehension, how about that part where I said here's my reaction (not specifically to you since you said you don't buy into it anyway)? Wasn't that cool, how I said I was replying to the point you brought up (since I've heard many other people say it) rather than to you specifically? Man, it sure would be a shame if that got ignored, because then somebody might think I was replying directly to you rather than arguing a philosophical point.

Good thing people don't do that here, though, huh?

[Michaelm]

But anyway the point I was trying to make is that the way those muslims reacted to the cartoons clearly states they are not grown up.
They are a bunch of schoolkids who like to settle arguments with violence.
Do you really think that if it was the other way around we westerners would act the same as them. Burning flags,cars,houses,people... ?

I'm not even to get into this - your concept of Islam is clearly skewed.

I'm sorry but I find that weak from you.
My point is made very clear with all recent events to back it up.
I asked you to reply to the point I made.
I didn't ask you to find things you could read between the line.
But, you're right, I do think people that belief in islam are stupid, just like any other religion for that matter.

Now be a man and give a reply.

[Zweihander]

I don't think any idea, no matter how trivial or limited in scope, can suffer the existence of competing ideas for long.

Religion is taking quite a beating, and it is clear that the more fundamental flavors of it are dead wrong, enough so for any fundamentalist with two grey cells to rub together to feel mighty self-conscious about it. They feel threatened, in general; from evolution to progressive attitudes about gay marriage and free speech (disambiguation: censorship is never progressive), they're practically cornered.

Cornered animals that fear for their lives often act in a dangerous manner, especially predatory creatures. How I wish that the militant fundamentalist religions would emulate the rabbit, instead of the bear, and simply drop dead from fright!

I'm just going to agree with everything this man said, because I couldn't put it better.

[sethsez]

Also, since you wanted someone to reply to the other part of your post...

I don't think its religion itself thats the problem... its the dickweeds who take the words of their religion and twist them into something completely different.

I'm Christian, I believe in Jesus, I believe he was the template for which God wanted all people to follow so people wouldn't suck so bad. And I think over half of the Christians on this planet don't realize that and are too busy digging up stuff from the Old Testament and what not, which once Jesus came on the scene, became outdated.

Like I said, they pick and choose. Muslims do it, Buddhists do it, wicca do it, every religion has its morons that don't grasp the whole picture. Sadly, its these morons that always make the most noise and become the representation for religion.

Wicca is an interesting inclusion, sicne there's no "pure" form of it to begin with. It's a bunch of shit cherry-picked from dozens of other religions, so someone practicing wicca is, by definition, picking and choosing.

In any case, "creative interpretation" is nothing new, and it's probably what resulted in the layout of the current bible (which itself isn't the same bible Christians have always used since the origin of the religion, since it has gone through changes over the centuries). With 2000 years of history and massive changes to the content, interpretations and consequences thereof over the years, can you really say your version of worship is any more correct than anybody else's?

That's the rub. When even the foundation of the religion is capable of undergoing changes, who's to say what's correct? What's allowed and what isn't? What's the word of God and what's the word of man? What's literal and what's figurative?

It's like a giant literature debate that's lasted centuries and has huge, eternal consequences. I shudder to think what a religion based on Finnegans Wake would bring about.

[greg]

Here's an idea for a new topic:
Why can't athiests lighten up a bit?

[sethsez]

Because we don't make up the vast majority of the world's population and have very little actual control over anything at all, so there's not much for us to back off from in the first place? I mean, the main reason atheists are annoyed with religion is because it's omnipresent.

[Randorama]

Personally i can't see how i can lighten up a bit: i don't even know what an "athiest" is!

[judesalmon]

But anyway the point I was trying to make is that the way those muslims reacted to the cartoons clearly states they are not grown up.
They are a bunch of schoolkids who like to settle arguments with violence.
Do you really think that if it was the other way around we westerners would act the same as them. Burning flags,cars,houses,people... ?

I'm not even to get into this - your concept of Islam is clearly skewed.

I'm sorry but I find that weak from you.
My point is made very clear with all recent events to back it up.
I asked you to reply to the point I made.
I didn't ask you to find things you could read between the line.
But, you're right, I do think people that belief in islam are stupid, just like any other religion for that matter.

Now be a man and give a reply.

I'm not going to waste my time arguing a point with someone whose mind is quite clearly closed and has no respect for people with faith.

"A wise man told me don't argue with fools, 'cos people from a distance can't tell who is who." Jay-Z

[jp]

If I'm right, then... atheists go to hell and are tortured forever and ever. Well, pending on what you believe. Personally, I like one sect of Christianity's belief that those people just cease to exist, as opposed to being punished for believing in something they could not logically come to believe. But if logic was involved, it wouldn't faith, and therefore pointless.

What about people who have no conept of Christianity? Do they go to Hell/cease to exist also?

There are no doubt people around the world who have never been told about Jesus Christ, so have no opportunity to let him into their hearts, so by your rationale will no be entitled to enter the afterlife.

Or is that just atheists?

You make a good point. And actually, I've consulted my Dad on this before. According to him, there is a passage in the Bible that states that anyone who maintains their basic morals(and while some would argue that morals change from person to person, I think most psych majors would say that there is a basic set instilled in most people) is saved. Basically, good people go to heaven. Of course, I doubt any church really mentions that scripture, and I'll have to ask him again where it was.

[jp]

Somehow I knew most of you would pick that one slight piece out though... reading and responding to the entire posts has never been something people regularly do on here.

Hey, speaking of reading comprehension, how about that part where I said here's my reaction (not specifically to you since you said you don't buy into it anyway)? Wasn't that cool, how I said I was replying to the point you brought up (since I've heard many other people say it) rather than to you specifically? Man, it sure would be a shame if that got ignored, because then somebody might think I was replying directly to you rather than arguing a philosophical point.

Good thing people don't do that here, though, huh?

I don't recall listing your name specifically... since there were 2 or 3 other people replying with the same stuff...

[magnum opus]

If I'm right, then... atheists go to hell and are tortured forever and ever. Well, pending on what you believe. Personally, I like one sect of Christianity's belief that those people just cease to exist, as opposed to being punished for believing in something they could not logically come to believe. But if logic was involved, it wouldn't faith, and therefore pointless.

What about people who have no conept of Christianity? Do they go to Hell/cease to exist also?

There are no doubt people around the world who have never been told about Jesus Christ, so have no opportunity to let him into their hearts, so by your rationale will no be entitled to enter the afterlife.

Or is that just atheists?

You make a good point. And actually, I've consulted my Dad on this before. According to him, there is a passage in the Bible that states that anyone who maintains their basic morals(and while some would argue that morals change from person to person, I think most psych majors would say that there is a basic set instilled in most people) is saved. Basically, good people go to heaven. Of course, I doubt any church really mentions that scripture, and I'll have to ask him again where it was.

well jews believe that if your not a jew but follow the noahide laws and believe that they are divine laws you still go to heaven. which i suspect is probably what he was refering to. the laws are laid out in genesis (9?), although the fact that they can get gentiles into heaven is in the talmud, so he might have a different part in mind.

i'm not sure if the christian churches hold similar beliefs

Somehow I knew most of you would pick that one slight piece out though... reading and responding to the entire posts has never been something people regularly do on here.

Hey, speaking of reading comprehension, how about that part where I said here's my reaction (not specifically to you since you said you don't buy into it anyway)? Wasn't that cool, how I said I was replying to the point you brought up (since I've heard many other people say it) rather than to you specifically? Man, it sure would be a shame if that got ignored, because then somebody might think I was replying directly to you rather than arguing a philosophical point.

Good thing people don't do that here, though, huh?

I don't recall listing your name specifically... since there were 2 or 3 other people replying with the same stuff...

there were three, me, cmoon and seth sez, none of us attacked you. (see previous post)

[Ceph]

I have an explanation for you. However, in case you are happy with your faith, save yourself from a headache & unnecessary anger and just skip this post, as it contains spoilers.

Intelligence and knowledge must inevitably lead to the conclusion that religion is a creation of man for man to satisfy certain needs (not given to man by a higher being but created by people with limited understanding during an evolutionary process of thoughts and ideas over an extended period of time and then stuck at one point arbitrarily [then it becomes dogma]) and that there is a discrepancy between how the real universe works and how religion describes it / wants it to be. The refusal to accept this is bordering on schizophrenia. Unfortunately the human mind is easely molded (cultural/family imprint) and very hard to free thereafter (especially as people get older). Therefore, trying to convince any believer (including nazis and communists [no, I am not saying that ideologies are the same as religions but the basic mechanics are identical]) that their believes are flawed/false is a nigh impossible task. In short, religious people are either brainwashed/imprinted, uneducated/stupid/naive* or liars or all of the aforementioned to variing degrees.
Now for a short look at christianity etc: The monotheistic religions derived from and including judaism are somewhat infantile in their egocentric view of the world (world and everything on it created FOR man [did it ever occur to anyone that it might be the other way around?]), omnipotent creator who interferes with is creation and wishes for it to behave in a certain fashion, good and evil, sin and punishment, afterlife in form of heaven and hell. And for the hardcore believers we have angels and devils, too. Can anyone keep a straight face while claiming this is grown-up stuff?

May I sum it up?
Religion is bullshit made by bullshitters for other bullshitters. Therefore, religion is unfit to provide any valid answers to any of the fundamental questions.

As Heinrich Heine put it: "In the dark ages people were best led by religion, just like in pitch-black night a blind man is our best guide; for he then knows his way around better then a man with eyesight. It is foolish, however, to continue using the old blind man as guide after daybreak."

I am not an atheist, because that would be just as foolish as religiousness in my opinion. There is neither proof that any deities exist nor that they do not exist. Therefore to me agnostcism is the only acceptable way.



_________________________________________________________

*i.e. suffering from very limited understanding of the real world (and refusal to broaden one's perception based on facts/knowledge) and/or very limited mental capacity. Stupidiy and ignorance can also be a voluntary choice and a way of life, which many prefer to the pain that comes with knowledge and understanding

[shiftace]

I have an explanation for you. However, in case you are happy with your faith, save yourself from a headache & unnecessary anger and just skip this post, as it contains spoilers.

Do you expect anybody to take you seriously when you describe your beliefs so presumptuously and use childish insults and emotionally loaded examples to demean one of the opposing views?

P.S. Godwin's Law.

[Ceph]

Godwin's Law does not apply here. If you can think of any other all-dominant ideologies then I will gladly edit my post to include them.

[shiftace]

Oh, I disagree; Godwin's Law most certainly applies. However, considering the rest of what you wrote, I think it should be the least of your concerns.

[judesalmon]

If I'm right, then... atheists go to hell and are tortured forever and ever. Well, pending on what you believe. Personally, I like one sect of Christianity's belief that those people just cease to exist, as opposed to being punished for believing in something they could not logically come to believe. But if logic was involved, it wouldn't faith, and therefore pointless.

What about people who have no conept of Christianity? Do they go to Hell/cease to exist also?

There are no doubt people around the world who have never been told about Jesus Christ, so have no opportunity to let him into their hearts, so by your rationale will no be entitled to enter the afterlife.

Or is that just atheists?

You make a good point. And actually, I've consulted my Dad on this before. According to him, there is a passage in the Bible that states that anyone who maintains their basic morals(and while some would argue that morals change from person to person, I think most psych majors would say that there is a basic set instilled in most people) is saved. Basically, good people go to heaven. Of course, I doubt any church really mentions that scripture, and I'll have to ask him again where it was.

I agree - I think that any 'just' God would judge a person on their merits, not whether they worshipped Him or not. Why would an all-seeing and all-knowing being need to be worshipped?

Jesus often accepted non-believers and sinners and showed that if you genuinely repent and try to live a good life, then you'll be rewarded. All the stuff about having to go to church and having to believe was added by the ones that established the Christian church. In fact, all other religions - aside from Christianity - that I can think of aspouse that anyone can enter paradise, so long as they are morally just by the standards set out by that religion.

Not that I'm down on organised religion - Jung believed, as do I, that it gives people a sense of community to which they can feel they 'belong', it's just not for me is all. I like to study religion, but not practice it.

[Michaelm]

I'm not even to get into this - your concept of Islam is clearly skewed.

I'm sorry but I find that weak from you.
My point is made very clear with all recent events to back it up.
I asked you to reply to the point I made.
I didn't ask you to find things you could read between the line.
But, you're right, I do think people that belief in islam are stupid, just like any other religion for that matter.

Now be a man and give a reply.

I'm not going to waste my time arguing a point with someone whose mind is quite clearly closed and has no respect for people with faith.

"A wise man told me don't argue with fools, 'cos people from a distance can't tell who is who." Jay-Z

I'm sorry but the fool is you because you don't know an answer and therefor start calling me names
You know just as well as me that my point is valid.
Furthermore I find it quite interesting that you tell me that my mind is closed purely on the statement that I think religious people are stupid.
I'm far more openminded then you are, that's a simple fact shown by your answers.

EDIT: And I do have respect for people with faith as log as they don't try to convince me with rubbish.
Like I know people who believe in christianity and I can get along fine with them as long as we talk about other shit then religions.

[sethsez]

stuff

BREAKING NEWS: there has been an accident on interstate 95. A large U-Haul truck, which appears to have been transporting massive amounts of strawmen, tipped over sometime before 3:00 AM Tuesday. Its contents spilled out onto the road, causing massive backups. No injuries have been reported, and the driver has been taken in for questioning.

[judesalmon]

I find it quite interesting that you tell me that my mind is closed purely on the statement that I think religious people are stupid.

That sentence right there is an awesome oxymoron: it does a much better job than I could of invalidating your viewpoint and showing that you are, in fact, close-minded.

I'm far more openminded then you are, that's a simple fact shown by your answers.

Riiiiiiiight.

Keep telling yourself that and you might even start to believe it.

[Neon]

stuff

Considering the amount of religious people smarter than you are, no. I'd agree that it's a bad way of thinking but damn.

[Michaelm]

I find it quite interesting that you tell me that my mind is closed purely on the statement that I think religious people are stupid.

That sentence right there is an awesome oxymoron: it does a much better job than I could of invalidating your viewpoint and showing that you are, in fact, close-minded.

I'm far more openminded then you are, that's a simple fact shown by your answers.

Riiiiiiiight.

Keep telling yourself that and you might even start to believe it.

Well, ok , so according to you anybody that doesn't belief in a religion is closeminded.
Or maybe anybody that thinks people that belief in religion are stupid is closeminded because of that fact.
Ofcourse the whole world turns because of this.
Ofcourse being openminded in all other things doesn't qualify for being openminded.

Surely you'll see that I get your point completely

EDIT: Just to clarify this little thing. Ofcoure when I say people who believe in religion are stupid I mean stupid in that respect.
I'm certainly not saying they are stupid as a whole because saying something like that based on one simple thing is totaly unrealistic.

[jp]

well jews believe that if your not a jew but follow the noahide laws and believe that they are divine laws you still go to heaven. which i suspect is probably what he was refering to. the laws are laid out in genesis (9?), although the fact that they can get gentiles into heaven is in the talmud, so he might have a different part in mind.

i'm not sure if the christian churches hold similar beliefs

Actually, what my Dad was referring to is somewhere in Romans. So in theory it applies to "New Testament following" Christians as well.

[Nemo]

I was raised in a primarilly Protestant community, my parents are atheists who are willing to let me choose my own religion (they took me to church for months because I wanted to know more about Christianity and I still have the bible I bought during that period), and I don't believe in God because nobody has ever given me a convincing reason to. I don't subscribe to the "if I don't like it then it must not be real" school of thought... if you gave me proof of God's existence then I'd believe it, whether he hates gays or not. However, as of yet I've seen no more proof for God's existence than I have for the Greek pantheon, Hindu deities, or Scientology. So, can you give me a reason for believing in Christianity above any of those? If not, then tell me why I should believe it above those anyway.

If there was "proof" that you are looking there would be no need for faith, yet there are many hints hidden with humanity. Like the way we behave, how we feel, our consciences, and the list goes on. The problem is unless people have a relationship with God, these things will have no meaning for a person. My faith didn't come from some supernatural experience, but from knowledge which led to understanding which led revelation.

To sum up: humanity isn't the greatest thing in the universe, it isn't the least important thing in the universe, and it isn't anything in between, because the universe doesn't keep score. We're just another thing that exists. Since I'm a human my primary concern is human affairs, but don't confuse that with a belief that human affairs are the most important thing in existence.

I understand why you think like this, and while it may seem logical, it falters because the goal of humanists is a utopia society, but this is an impossible goal because humans are imperfect by nature. No matter what we do, we can never solve all of our problems and people will never truly be happy. This is why faith in the human race is more of "blind faith" than Christianity.

What about people who have no conept of Christianity? Do they go to Hell/cease to exist also?

There are no doubt people around the world who have never been told about Jesus Christ, so have no opportunity to let him into their hearts, so by your rationale will no be entitled to enter the afterlife.

Or is that just atheists?

This is the purpose of missionaries, and while there are certainly people who have died without ever hearing about Christianity, I'd wager almost anyone over age 7 has been told about and given the opportunity to believe in a monotheistic deity characterized like the Christian God.

And to go back to the original post in this topic, this is why religous people shouldn't lighten up in a lot of regards because as believers in God, you have a responsibility to inform others about Him and you should be concerned about the behavior of your fellow man since we are social beings. There's a fine line between the promotion of hatred and discrimination and feeling like everyone should be left alone to do what they want.

[magnum opus]

I was raised in a primarilly Protestant community, my parents are atheists who are willing to let me choose my own religion (they took me to church for months because I wanted to know more about Christianity and I still have the bible I bought during that period), and I don't believe in God because nobody has ever given me a convincing reason to. I don't subscribe to the "if I don't like it then it must not be real" school of thought... if you gave me proof of God's existence then I'd believe it, whether he hates gays or not. However, as of yet I've seen no more proof for God's existence than I have for the Greek pantheon, Hindu deities, or Scientology. So, can you give me a reason for believing in Christianity above any of those? If not, then tell me why I should believe it above those anyway.

If there was "proof" that you are looking there would be no need for faith, yet there are many hints hidden with humanity. Like the way we behave, how we feel, our consciences, and the list goes on. The problem is unless people have a relationship with God, these things will have no meaning for a person. My faith didn't come from some supernatural experience, but from knowledge which led to understanding which led revelation.

so if we accept god and the goddidit explanation THEN we'll see evidence of him.
but if we don't believe in god then the evidence will look like a product of the same natural laws that are also responisble for all the things that aren't 'evidence'
...
...
that sounds kinda like the evidence for god is self deception to me.

and if all the 'evidence' relates to human behavior then i'd like you to take this up with the cognitive psychologists, evolutionary psychologists, game theorists, economists, sociobiologists and plain old normal psychologists who all seem to be able to explain it all pretty well with out invoking the supernatual

To sum up: humanity isn't the greatest thing in the universe, it isn't the least important thing in the universe, and it isn't anything in between, because the universe doesn't keep score. We're just another thing that exists. Since I'm a human my primary concern is human affairs, but don't confuse that with a belief that human affairs are the most important thing in existence.

I understand why you think like this, and while it may seem logical, it falters because the goal of humanists is a utopia society, but this is an impossible goal because humans are imperfect by nature. No matter what we do, we can never solve all of our problems and people will never truly be happy. This is why faith in the human race is more of "blind faith" than Christianity.

not perfect, just better.
and if christian goals DON'T include trying to make everyone's life better then thats just one more reason not to be one.

edit: also if i had faith in humanity i wouldn't be trying to make it a better place, i'd simply let it follow it's own course.

What about people who have no conept of Christianity? Do they go to Hell/cease to exist also?

There are no doubt people around the world who have never been told about Jesus Christ, so have no opportunity to let him into their hearts, so by your rationale will no be entitled to enter the afterlife.

Or is that just atheists?

This is the purpose of missionaries, and while there are certainly people who have died without ever hearing about Christianity, I'd wager almost anyone over age 7 has been told about and given the opportunity to believe in a monotheistic deity characterized like the Christian God.

so as long as your under 7 years old your just an acceptable loss?

And to go back to the original post in this topic, this is why religous people shouldn't lighten up in a lot of regards because as believers in God, you have a responsibility to inform others about Him and you should be concerned about the behavior of your fellow man since we are social beings. There's a fine line between the promotion of hatred and discrimination and feeling like everyone should be left alone to do what they want.

actually theres a giant gaping chasm between the two.
and athiests are concerned about the behavior of our fellow man. we simply don't feel it is appropriate to tell people how to think, choosing instead to promote educating people so that they can make choices based on reality instead of say a sheltered child hood with a redneck father who kept telling them that black people were dark because they were stained with sin or similar bullshit (not to pick on religious based bigotry it was just the first one that jumped to mind)
in the mean time we we still oppose actions that are harmful to people and society just like any one else. of course we tend to do it for the vivtim's sake, not because we think the criminal will go to hell.


there is however a fine line between saying that gays and those who aren't christians are heathens or sinners who are doomed to hell and promoting hatred and discrimination. a line that has been crossed repeatedly throughout history

[Michaelm]

I understand why you think like this, and while it may seem logical, it falters because the goal of humanists is a utopia society, but this is an impossible goal because humans are imperfect by nature. No matter what we do, we can never solve all of our problems and people will never truly be happy. This is why faith in the human race is more of "blind faith" than Christianity.

So in the middleages when the church was huge in Europe and it did all these cruelties it had nothing to do with the imperfectness of humans.

... because as believers in God, you have a responsibility to inform others about Him and you should be concerned about the behavior of your fellow man since we are social beings. There's a fine line between the promotion of hatred and discrimination and feeling like everyone should be left alone to do what they want.

This is kinda like saying that:

-Child molesters have the responsibility to inform others of the possibilities.
-Murderers have the responsibility to inform others of the possibilities.
-Muslims have the responsibilitity to question others and if needed even kill others because their koran says so, interpreted by some.

Ofcourse you'll have to imagine that they all worship their specific gods.
Which we can't question cause there's no proof.

[sethsez]

the goal of humanists is a utopia society

What?

as believers in God, you have a responsibility to inform others about Him and you should be concerned about the behavior of your fellow man

Okay, everyone claiming to be a "live and let live" Christian: Nemo is the reason many people automatically assume Christians are all obnoxious. If you want to blame someone for all Christians getting the "self-righteous nanny state loving ego-centric bullshit artists" label when it clearly does not apply to all Christians, blame people like Nemo for being so fucking loud and for sucking all the dignity out of it. It's easy to forget that not every Christian is like this when the ones that are make such an effort to shove themselves into every part of your life.

I respect the faiths of other people, even if I don't believe in them or agree with the reasoning behind it. But I do not, in any way, respect the "EVERYONE MUST BE CONVERTED TO MY WAY FOR THEIR OWN GOOD" branches of any religion, and never will. They annoy everyone who isn't them, and just serve to make their religion look worse.

In short: Christians are fine by me. GOD SOLDIERS can fuck off.

[sffan]

as believers in God, you have a responsibility to inform others about Him and you should be concerned about the behavior of your fellow man

Okay, everyone claiming to be a "live and let live" Christian: Nemo is the reason many people automatically assume Christians are all obnoxious. If you want to blame someone for all Christians getting the "self-righteous nanny state loving ego-centric bullshit artists" label when it clearly does not apply to all Christians, blame people like Nemo for being so fucking loud and for sucking all the dignity out of it. It's easy to forget that not every Christian is like this when the ones that are make such an effort to shove themselves into every part of your life.

I respect the faiths of other people, even if I don't believe in them or agree with the reasoning behind it. But I do not, in any way, respect the "EVERYONE MUST BE CONVERTED TO MY WAY FOR THEIR OWN GOOD" branches of any religion, and never will. They annoy everyone who isn't them, and just serve to make their religion look worse.

In short: Christians are fine by me. GOD SOLDIERS can fuck off.

Better than I could have said it. Thanks.

[Nuke]

A few good quotations:

"Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned."
-- unknown

"Humanity without religion is like a serial killer without a chainsaw."
-- unknown

"Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color."
--Don Hirschberg

"the trouble with theocracy is that everyone wants to be Theo."
-- James Dunn

"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor (1769-1821).

"Don't you know there ain't no devil, it's just god when he's drunk."
-- Tom Waits

Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"
Priest: "No, not if you did not know."
Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"
-- Annie Dillard, 'Pilgrim at Tinker Creek'

"Gods always behave like the people who created them"
-- Zora Neale Hurston

"I still say a church steeple with a lightening rod on top shows a lack of confidence."
-- Doug McLeod

"Hey, let's get serious... God knows what he's doin' He wrote this book here And the book says: 'He made us all to be just like Him', So... If we're dumb... Then God is dumb... (And maybe even a little ugly on the side)"
- -Frank Zappa

"You know your god is man-made when he hates all the same people you do."
--[from Usenet]

"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."
-- unknown