Input Lag Free HDTV?

[DJ Incompetent]

If rtings.com and DisplayLag.com conduct their tests at 1080p @60hz, but I want to plug in an emulator box that may or may not work at 720p @?hz or lower, should I assume the test results are still going to be close? Or do I need to buy a display processor/upscaler to compensate?

I want to hide a SNES classic mini or a Raspberry Pi 3 on a mounted HDTV used by normie-plebs for short gaming sessions (and would assume PWM strain doesn't influence me over time).

I keep coming back to thinking I should purchase LG UJ7700 (65UJ7700) but I cannot conclude if my research matches what I'd actually use the TV for.

[Fudoh]

If rtings.com and DisplayLag.com conduct their tests at 1080p @60hz, but I want to plug in an emulator box that may or may not work at 720p @?hz or lower, should I assume the test results are still going to be close?

yes, it's usually safe to assume that processing delay for various non-interlaced HD resolutions (480p, 720, 1080p) is rather identical.

[DJ Incompetent]

Thank you Fudoh

[Lawfer]

I'm sorry if I've overseen any existing thread like this.

I hate this topic but I'm thinking about buying a new TV for movies and HD games so I was wondering if there are any new TVs which have no noticeable input lag! Like at least 40".

HDTV means just that, a TV that displays HD content. Input lag depends upon which technology is used for said HDTV. CRT are input lag free, everything else has input lag including Plasmas.

40" is small by 2017's standards, if you are going to buy a TV in 2017 or 2018 don't go for less than 55", here a 55" 4K TV from Sony that cost 600 Bucks (it was only 500 bucks a few hours ago as part of the Amazon Prime Day Deals):

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FWIEMSU/

Edit: Ok I'm learning now of edge-lit vs. full-array backlight - probably that's what is bad with the aforementioned display (ie edge backlight)? I'm quite the noob when it comes to LCDs

Full Array is better but it is also rarer.

Unless things have changed recently, all the high-end and professional monitors are still IPS

Yeah and they have on average an input lag of 24-25ms.

[Lefteris]

Fudoh, the LG 55SJ850V (8500 for US) has an input lag of 15ms, is that ok? I ask because it's too close to one frame and maybe it could increase in different situations? Of course always with game mode.
I consider it to be a great tv since it's RGB not RGBW even if it's too big.As for PWM we can't have everything.

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/sj8500
http://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/ac33adf
https://www.homecinemamagazine.nl/2017/ ... -55sj850v/

Do you know of a better TV to recommend in terms of input lag and picture quality etc?

[Lawfer]

Fudoh, the LG 55SJ850V (8500 for US) has an input lag of 15ms, is that ok? I ask because it's too close to one frame and maybe it could increase in different situations? Of course always with game mode.
I consider it to be a great tv since it's RGB not RGBW even if it's too big.As for PWM we can't have everything.

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/sj8500
http://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/ac33adf
https://www.homecinemamagazine.nl/2017/ ... -55sj850v/

Do you know of a better TV to recommend in terms of input lag and picture quality etc?

This is just an advise and you are free to do what you want, but you might consider holding off buying a TV for now.

The reason for that is if you buy a TV now, you will be stuck with a TV that only has HDMI 2.0 and that's not good future proof wise.

It would be better to wait and get a TV with HDMI 2.1, 2.1 (unlike anything below it) will be good for years to come as it can support up to 10k 120Hz, basically it will blow away even DisplayPort that used to be on top of everything else until now. In comparison HDMI 2.0 is severely limited and way behind DisplayPort as of right now.

[Lefteris]

Thanks, it seems that I will wait and see what they will release in the next months...

[Lord of Pirates]

Fudoh, the LG 55SJ850V (8500 for US) has an input lag of 15ms, is that ok? I ask because it's too close to one frame and maybe it could increase in different situations? Of course always with game mode.
I consider it to be a great tv since it's RGB not RGBW even if it's too big.As for PWM we can't have everything.

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/sj8500
http://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/ac33adf
https://www.homecinemamagazine.nl/2017/ ... -55sj850v/

Do you know of a better TV to recommend in terms of input lag and picture quality etc?

This is just an advise and you are free to do what you want, but you might consider holding off buying a TV for now.

The reason for that is if you buy a TV now, you will be stuck with a TV that only has HDMI 2.0 and that's not good future proof wise.

It would be better to wait and get a TV with HDMI 2.1, 2.1 (unlike anything below it) will be good for years to come as it can support up to 10k 120Hz, basically it will blow away even DisplayPort that used to be on top of everything else until now. In comparison HDMI 2.0 is severely limited and way behind DisplayPort as of right now.

Until DisplayPort inevitably releases a revision that bumps up bandwidth .

[Lawfer]

Fudoh, the LG 55SJ850V (8500 for US) has an input lag of 15ms, is that ok? I ask because it's too close to one frame and maybe it could increase in different situations? Of course always with game mode.
I consider it to be a great tv since it's RGB not RGBW even if it's too big.As for PWM we can't have everything.

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/sj8500
http://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/ac33adf
https://www.homecinemamagazine.nl/2017/ ... -55sj850v/

Do you know of a better TV to recommend in terms of input lag and picture quality etc?

This is just an advise and you are free to do what you want, but you might consider holding off buying a TV for now.

The reason for that is if you buy a TV now, you will be stuck with a TV that only has HDMI 2.0 and that's not good future proof wise.

It would be better to wait and get a TV with HDMI 2.1, 2.1 (unlike anything below it) will be good for years to come as it can support up to 10k 120Hz, basically it will blow away even DisplayPort that used to be on top of everything else until now. In comparison HDMI 2.0 is severely limited and way behind DisplayPort as of right now.

Until DisplayPort inevitably releases a revision that bumps up bandwidth .

Well according to the specs of yet to be released 1.5 revision, it still won't be as good as HDMI 2.1.

DisplayPort 1.5 (To be Released in 2017):

5K (5120 × 2880) 60 Hz 30 bit/px RGB
4K (3840 × 2160) 120 Hz 30 bit/px RGB
4K (3840 × 2160) 144 Hz 24 bit/px RGB

With HDMI 2.1 it supports of 10k 120hz and anything below it, really not sure if DisplayPort even topping that won't have any meaning since the industry hasn't even transitioned to 4K yet.

DisplayPort does still have more features than HDMI 2.1, such as 144Hz support and even 240Hz.

[Guspaz]

10K video support on the video connection is totally useless if you're buying a 4K TV. Who cares if your TV supports a standard that is future-proof if your TV can't actually use a single thing supported by that standard?

[Lawfer]

10K video support on the video connection is totally useless if you're buying a 4K TV. Who cares if your TV supports a standard that is future-proof if your TV can't actually use a single thing supported by that standard?

I said 10k 120hz and anything below it, meaning 4K/120 too. What if later on he decides to get a shiny new PC with HDMI 2.1 output and want to do some 4K/120Hz gaming on his 120hz 4K TV, but can't because he purchased a 4K/120 TV in 2017, what then?

[bobrocks95]

The main thing that's lacking right now imo is 4K HDR without chroma compression. You either have 4K 4:4:4 or 4K HDR 4:2:0 because of bandwidth restrictions on HDMI 2.0

Of course, consoles outputting HDR right now are HDMI 2.0 as well, so unless those get upgraded too I guess it doesn't matter...

[Lawfer]

The main thing that's lacking right now imo is 4K HDR without chroma compression. You either have 4K 4:4:4 or 4K HDR 4:2:0 because of bandwidth restrictions on HDMI 2.0

Of course, consoles outputting HDR right now are HDMI 2.0 as well, so unless those get upgraded too I guess it doesn't matter...

HDMI 2.1 will also offer dynamic HDR and adaptive frame rate (meaning no more screen tearing), so there is that too.

Revisions of the current consoles might get updated to HDMI 2.1, it's possible. But as of right now no plans for it, not even for the Xbox One X which will be HDMI 2.0.

The PS3 revisions were updated to HDMI 1.4 after all (launch ones were HDMI 1.3 in comparison).

[Xyga]

I'm sceptical about how actually good HDMI 2.1 will be for us, maybe Scorpio owners will know around 2018~19 yes, but on the PC GPU side do we actually know what'll happen, especially nVidia: just giving up on TVs or dealing in partnerships? Also are there people who seriously expect HDMI VRR to be a switchable option that'll work with any source? My pessimistic guess is that despite the crazy specs of 2.1 a lot of things we not-so-secretly hope for (variable refresh everywhere, better faster smoother blur reduction w/ sources) won't be possible because how TVs are made and the market is, those new techs and premium features like 4K and HDR are primarily used to support consumer product sales, not to solve the old and persistent technical limitations of flat panel displays.
Surely for future consoles and PCs things will get around in time and people will be (mostly) satisfied, but retrogaming on flat panel TVs? I don't think we'll see any new/new~ish tech benefiting the niche other than more affordable and durable OLED. Actually we're almost there.
I have good hopes for emulation+2.1 though, assuming GPU makers and HDMI/TV manufacturers don't ruin the potential.

[evil_ash_xero]

I'm just gonna jump in here.

I bought a Samsung a few years ago, and it had less than 2 frames of input lag (almost seems closer to 1 frame). It's not bad at all, really.

However, it was a 32 inch, and I would have no issues with getting a bigger TV. Any recommendations? Don't care about 4K. I don't really want to go backwards, regarding input lag.

[Lawfer]

I bought a Samsung a few years ago, and it had less than 2 frames of input lag (almost seems closer to 1 frame). It's not bad at all, really.

Is that manufacturers specs or actual specs measured by users?

[Fudoh]

Manufacturers usually state grey-to-grey response times in their specs, not the actual input lag.

[Lawfer]

Manufacturers usually state grey-to-grey response times in their specs, not the actual input lag.

Thanks I forgot about that, edited my post accordingly.

[evil_ash_xero]

I bought a Samsung a few years ago, and it had less than 2 frames of input lag (almost seems closer to 1 frame). It's not bad at all, really.

Is that manufacturers specs or actual specs measured by users?

It was by users.

[Lawfer]

I bought a Samsung a few years ago, and it had less than 2 frames of input lag (almost seems closer to 1 frame). It's not bad at all, really.

Is that manufacturers specs or actual specs measured by users?

It was by users.

Then it's pretty good, I actually never seen one with such low input lag, was it in "game mode"?

[FinalBaton]

Then it's pretty good, I actually never seen one with such low input lag, was it in "game mode"?

I noticed this for the first time yesterday, I checked a video comparison between s-video and component on the cube, and component was a heck of a lot darker. Like, not just a little bit darker

[evil_ash_xero]

Then it's pretty good, I actually never seen one with such low input lag, was it in "game mode"?

Yeah. There's an ancient thread on here, where the forum helped me pick it out.

It was this item: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004N ... UTF8&psc=1

[Lawfer]

Then it's pretty good, I actually never seen one with such low input lag, was it in "game mode"?

I noticed this for the first time yesterday, I checked a video comparison between s-video and component on the cube, and component was a heck of a lot darker. Like, not just a little bit darker

Wrong thread, I replied to you on the correct thread.

[FinalBaton]

Then it's pretty good, I actually never seen one with such low input lag, was it in "game mode"?

I noticed this for the first time yesterday, I checked a video comparison between s-video and component on the cube, and component was a heck of a lot darker. Like, not just a little bit darker

Wrong thread, I replied to you on the correct thread.

Woops ty

[yxkalle]

IF you think about it, crts have a kind of lag too. What's going to be drawn in the next frame is usually decided in the vblank, the last scanlines of a frame are drawn more than 10ms afterwards.</rant>

[Guspaz]

And a 165Hz LCD panel can achieve lower average latency per frame than a 60Hz CRT as a result.

[Bahn Yuki]

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... sOn8yhrtHD

I made a thread about this TV, hopefully you can find these TVs as my friends have been picking these up left and right.

[yxkalle]

And a 165Hz LCD panel can achieve lower average latency per frame than a 60Hz CRT as a result.

Yes, but only if the source outputs at a refresh rate > 60 Hz.

[orange808]

And a 165Hz LCD panel can achieve lower average latency per frame than a 60Hz CRT as a result.

Yes, but only if the source outputs at a refresh rate > 60 Hz.

Maybe not.

If I understand Guspaz correctly,

LCD panels hold their state. Ignoring blur issues, there's no speed requirements for drawing each frame--beyond the limitations of the LCD panel, itself. A 165Hz LCD panel would be capable of drawing each frame very quickly. In theory, the display would draw each frame in much less than 16 2/3 ms, because the panel is designed to handle 165 refreshes in a second. So, as the refresh rate is decreased, each frame would still be drawn very fast--just refreshed less often.

The sticking point is the processing delay.

[Fudoh]

So, as the refresh rate is decreased, each frame would still be drawn very fast--just refreshed less often.

I think both implementations exist. That's why some LCDs give you (near-) identical results on the three bars with Leo's lag tester, while others give you the expected delay between them.