gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thread

[Guspaz]

Garo can be connected directly to lite using RGBS, it'll be gcompsw -> Garo -> gscartsw_lite.

This won't work with all consoles: Garo's issues with gscartsw_lite sync regeneration notwithstanding, the Garo's RGBS output is largely incompatible with the OSSC (for 240p at least) due to the incorrect way it combines HV sync. Workarounds include using the Garo's RGBHV output on the OSSC, or using an external sync processor to combine the Garo's RGBHV into RGBS. I just tested that tonight, with the following chain:

SNES (YPbPr) -> gcompsw (YPbPr) -> Garo (RGBHV) -> Extron SC210 (RGBS) -> gscartsw_lite (RGBS) -> OSSC (RGBS)

This chain appears to work correctly from a sync standpoint. However, the following chain does not appear to work with 240p sources (tested with Wii, GameCube via HDR cable, SNES via HDR cable):

SNES (YPbPr) -> gcompsw (YPbPr) -> Garo (RGBS) -> gscartsw_lite (RGBS) -> OSSC (RGBS)

While the Extron SC210 doesn't solve the Garo's issues with the RGB lines themselves, it at least bypasses the Garo's sync issues.

[DirkSwizzler]

Questions about the gscartsw 3.4 VGA output.

Does the VGA output handle non-csync inputs? I'm assuming that this is one of the reasons the sync stripper is embedded and probably has to turn on for non-csync sources.

Does separating RGBS into RGBHV introduce a line delay similar to LM1881 sync stripping?

Yes, EL1883 (similar to LM1881) introduces a delay in v3.4 VGA output sync. Simply you'll always have that delay on VGA output.

Some comments on your setup: I'd use gscartsw_lite as a final processing unit in your chain, it has least latency and sync regeneration is much faster than EL1883. That is:
gscartsw_v3.4 [utilize SCART output, keep CSYNC off] -> gscartsw_lite (with sync regeneration on) -> XRGB-Mini. Make RGBS your default choice (not RGBHV). Garo can be connected directly to lite using RGBS, it'll be gcompsw -> Garo -> gscartsw_lite. What is left is Dreamcast / Hanzo which can be connected either using ArcadeForge VGA2SCART (this combination is tested by me) or I think you can just get that other thing from beharius, forgot the name, you'll directly get RGBS from Dreamcast not depending on mode. Then you can totally exclude Aten from your chain.

Thanks for the info. Am I wrong or does sync regeneration introduce a (small, but nonzero) line delay even for native csync sources? This, as well as the VGA output and LPF switch I installed on the 3.4 make it seem like a clear winner for end of the SCART chain at least.

I already had the Toro for going from Dreamcast straight to SCART. But I was previously less aware of how to actually use the thing and I think I was getting suboptimal results because I had the switches in the wrong place. Namely the VGA/RGB switch which I had previously assumed selected the output on the box to use. It actually selects 15KHz vs 31KHz signal availability.

Sorry for newb'ish questons guys. Some of this stuff seems like tribal knowledge to me and I just ramped up my interest 6 months ago. I'll go back to assuming that SCART is the gold standard as long as I have an upscaler that accepts 480p and up from it.

It seems I can ignore the Dreamcast VGA problem for now with the Toro outputting RGBS directly. Now just to solve component.

Garo can be connected directly to lite using RGBS, it'll be gcompsw -> Garo -> gscartsw_lite.

This won't work with all consoles: Garo's issues with gscartsw_lite sync regeneration notwithstanding, the Garo's RGBS output is largely incompatible with the OSSC (for 240p at least) due to the incorrect way it combines HV sync. Workarounds include using the Garo's RGBHV output on the OSSC, or using an external sync processor to combine the Garo's RGBHV into RGBS. I just tested that tonight, with the following chain:

SNES (YPbPr) -> gcompsw (YPbPr) -> Garo (RGBHV) -> Extron SC210 (RGBS) -> gscartsw_lite (RGBS) -> OSSC (RGBS)

This chain appears to work correctly from a sync standpoint. However, the following chain does not appear to work with 240p sources (tested with Wii, GameCube via HDR cable, SNES via HDR cable):

SNES (YPbPr) -> gcompsw (YPbPr) -> Garo (RGBS) -> gscartsw_lite (RGBS) -> OSSC (RGBS)

While the Extron SC210 doesn't solve the Garo's issues with the RGB lines themselves, it at least bypasses the Garo's sync issues.

Just a data point for Garo RGBS vs RGBHV. I just tried XBox 1080i -> gcompsw -> Garo (RGBHV VGA output) -> Kenzei (RGBS SCART output) -> a couple gscartsw configs.
Hooking the Kenzei output to gscartsw 3.4 port 7 (specifically avoiding port 8 where it worked before) works just fine!
Hooking the Kenzei output to gscartsw_lite to gscartsw 3.4 port 7 (still avoiding 8 where it worked before) works fine with sync regeneration on and off.

So it looks like maybe I can avoid buying an Extron and massage the Garo's output with a Kenzei. Plus, keeping the Kenzei in the chain means I leave myself an open door for using the Aten to hook up other VGA sources. All funneling to RGBS SCART on the 3.4 for maximum auto-switching goodness.

[superg]

Thanks for the info. Am I wrong or does sync regeneration introduce a (small, but nonzero) line delay even for native csync sources? This, as well as the VGA output and LPF switch I installed on the 3.4 make it seem like a clear winner for end of the SCART chain at least.

Yes, just a miniscule delay but it fixes a lot of things.

While the Extron SC210 doesn't solve the Garo's issues with the RGB lines themselves, it at least bypasses the Garo's sync issues.

Yeah, here unfortunately I don't have any solution. In my case I connect gscartsw directly to my TV, still one remote click away but better than deal with YUV->RGBS conversion.

[Guspaz]

Unfortunately my PVM only has one RGB/YPbPr input, so sharing them is tricky. I've considered getting an RGB input card for the PVM so that I can have one set to YPbPr and one set to RGB (so that I could skip the YPbPr -> RGBS conversion), but the input cards aren't cheap, and I'd also need a distribution amp to split the gcompsw output to the PVM and OSSC.

I'm not planning to make a custom board for the Garo RGBS bypass, but if it works out well, I'll publish the instructions on how to do it. I'm worried about soldering wires to the THS7374 legs (they're so tiny!) too. If nothing else, the bypass should fix compatibility with the gscartsw-lite and OSSC.

[arithmaldor]

That's why the component adapter from retrofixes is so handy, though it only works on port 8 of 3.4, not on the lite. But if you're going to one input on the PVM you still have to switch from RGB to YPbPr and internal sync so it's still a hassle.

My PVM has 2 inputs, and one of them has a passthrough, so I just use RGBS into one input, secound output of gscart_lite into OSSC, then go gcompsw into the other input of the PVM and use the passthrough to go to the OSSC. I have a Garo but haven't tried it yet due to the issues it seems to have, I may try to do the bypass with luma as sync that Guspaz has been talking about if it is successful. Amazing work!

[mjs0686]

Unfortunately my PVM only has one RGB/YPbPr input, so sharing them is tricky. I've considered getting an RGB input card for the PVM so that I can have one set to YPbPr and one set to RGB (so that I could skip the YPbPr -> RGBS conversion), but the input cards aren't cheap,

That's what I currently do. It was the only real solution I was satisfied with. Not cheap unfortunately.

[arithmaldor]

Hi superg, I have a fix for the PC-Engine/grafxbooster issue I asked you about, via Rene, the engineer who sells the db-grafxbooster.

I tweeted him with the issue and he asked if my grafxbooster had a "jumper for csync voltage select labeled 75 / TTL", which it does.

Then I tweeted him a photo of the jumper for csync voltage select and it was set to 75. He asked me to change it to TTL and to try again, and voilà, I had an image once the pc-engine was connected to my pvm through your gscartsw_lite via his grafxbooster.

here is the jumper when it was set to 75 (first pic). when I lifted the black piece off revealing 3 pins (second pic), and when I set the black piece to TTL

Hope this helps anyone having trouble getting the grafxbooster for PC-Engine/coregrafx and gscartsw_lite to play nice together on a PVM

Well, it's all good but TTL sync is unsupported by the switch!
I don't have an explanation why does it work. Might look into it and measure things later.

The dbgrafx booster has a 9 pin mini-din output (like the genesis 2). Correctly made csync cables (https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/seg ... le-tv-lead) for genesis 2 have a 470ohm resistor and 220uf capacitor on the sync line (source:http://retrorgb.com/csync.html).


If you use csync genesis 2 cables on the dbgrafxbooster, and the dbgrafxbooster is set to 75 ohms, the cable will attenuate it (it is expecting TTL), so the signal going to the gscartsw lite has messed up sync, causing issues. This can be fixed by setting the jumper to TTL and using a cable that attenuates the sync (as above) or by setting the jumper to 75 ohms and using a cable that does not attenuate the sync.

[superg]

Hi superg, I have a fix for the PC-Engine/grafxbooster issue I asked you about, via Rene, the engineer who sells the db-grafxbooster.

I tweeted him with the issue and he asked if my grafxbooster had a "jumper for csync voltage select labeled 75 / TTL", which it does.

Then I tweeted him a photo of the jumper for csync voltage select and it was set to 75. He asked me to change it to TTL and to try again, and voilà, I had an image once the pc-engine was connected to my pvm through your gscartsw_lite via his grafxbooster.

here is the jumper when it was set to 75 (first pic). when I lifted the black piece off revealing 3 pins (second pic), and when I set the black piece to TTL

Hope this helps anyone having trouble getting the grafxbooster for PC-Engine/coregrafx and gscartsw_lite to play nice together on a PVM

Well, it's all good but TTL sync is unsupported by the switch!
I don't have an explanation why does it work. Might look into it and measure things later.

The dbgrafx booster has a 9 pin mini-din output (like the genesis 2). Correctly made csync cables for genesis 2 have a 470ohm resistor and 220uf capacitor on the sync line (source:http://retrorgb.com/csync.html).

If you use csync genesis 2 cables on the dbgrafxbooster, and the dbgrafxbooster is set to 75 ohms, the cable will attenuate it (it is expecting TTL), so the signal going to the gscartsw lite has messed up sync, causing issues. This can be fixed by setting the jumper to TTL and using a cable that attenuates the sync (as above) or by setting the jumper to 75 ohms and using a cable that does not attenuate the sync.

Oh, your explanation makes the perfect sense! So it's a combination of proper cable and setting.
Thank you!

[vmagix]

Evening all!

First time poster - just couldn't find the info that I needed anywhere else, so hoping someone can help.

Had the GSCARTSW for a few months now, and it has performed flawlessly thus far. However I'm hoping to capture some footage of the random games I play and I really don't know the best way to go about it.

Option 1 involves splitting the HDMI output from the OSSC and hoping that a capture card plays nicely with the non-standard signal.

Option 2 (and what I'm looking to do) involves feeding an analog signal from the GSCARTSW's second, VGA-esque output (and 3.5mm audio) to some sort of analog capture device. The problem is I'm really not sure how to go about it, or the type of cable to buy.

I'm assuming buying some basic "VGA to XX" cable probably won't work? Will VGA capture devices usually work with 240p content? A bit lost here, so apologies for sounding like an idiot.

Cheers
-Jon

[mattynunchucks]

I received my gscartsw_lite on Wednesday and I set it up yesterday, I have it set up to a Framemeister via this cable:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCART-to-XRGB-M ... 1678179123

When connected I get audio and no video on both an original model SNES via a CSYNC SCART cable and a Model 1 Genesis also with a CSYNC SCART cable, all purchased via retro_console_accessories. If I do not use the gscartsw and instead use a SCART to XRGB Mini passive adapter everything works fine, I'm trying to figure out if it's the above cable I bought or something else.

[hyrulebr]

Not to get off topic but Tim Worthington has said he is working on an rgb mod for the Atari 7800. Hoping that may fix what your describing.

Hi

I don´t have the real Atari 7800. I only have an Analogue NT mini with an Atari 7800 core (FPGA simulation). But the developer (Kevtris) said that he follow the exactly video output of each console, so probably the real Atari 7800 could have the same sync issue. I can confirm that the Master system core have the same behavior as the real master system and both were fixed with Extron 580xi, extron 109xi and now with Gscartw_lite daisychained to Gscartw 3.2).

I´ll try latter if any extron interface will solve the atari 7800 core sync issue.

To end story, no, I cannot make work Atari 7800 (core from NT mini) on A24e1wu. Tried all combinations of Gscartw-lite, Gscartw 3.2 and 3 different Extron interfaces. Also tried with component cable (from NT mini). Only works on D series D20 monitor.

[superg]

I received my gscartsw_lite on Wednesday and I set it up yesterday, I have it set up to a Framemeister via this cable:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCART-to-XRGB-M ... 1678179123

When connected I get audio and no video on both an original model SNES via a CSYNC SCART cable and a Model 1 Genesis also with a CSYNC SCART cable, all purchased via retro_console_accessories. If I do not use the gscartsw and instead use a SCART to XRGB Mini passive adapter everything works fine, I'm trying to figure out if it's the above cable I bought or something else.

Can you try some SCART->SCART cable and your female SCART->MiniDIN cable to rule out cable issue?
Did you try to toggle sync regeneration? (not that it's gonna help but anyways)
Genesis 1 signal is always solid, this is my test console.

[mattynunchucks]

Can you try some SCART->SCART cable and your female SCART->MiniDIN cable to rule out cable issue?
Did you try to toggle sync regeneration? (not that it's gonna help but anyways)
Genesis 1 signal is always solid, this is my test console.

This my thought process too, unfortunately I do not have a male-to-male SCART cable handy, but I ordered one last night when I first noticed, that will be here on Monday. I did try toggling sync regeneration, and that did not do anything.

[lettuce]

Looks like my lite turned up today, but i needed to pay £27 import tax though

[zak]

I really want one of these switches...

Is there any ETA for another round?

[FBX]

Can you try some SCART->SCART cable and your female SCART->MiniDIN cable to rule out cable issue?
Did you try to toggle sync regeneration? (not that it's gonna help but anyways)
Genesis 1 signal is always solid, this is my test console.

This my thought process too, unfortunately I do not have a male-to-male SCART cable handy, but I ordered one last night when I first noticed, that will be here on Monday. I did try toggling sync regeneration, and that did not do anything.

These kinds of issues are where it comes in real handy to have a multimeter. In this situation, you would just test each of the video pins on the adapter cable for continuity.

[vmagix]

Evening all!

First time poster - just couldn't find the info that I needed anywhere else, so hoping someone can help.

Had the GSCARTSW for a few months now, and it has performed flawlessly thus far. However I'm hoping to capture some footage of the random games I play and I really don't know the best way to go about it.

Option 1 involves splitting the HDMI output from the OSSC and hoping that a capture card plays nicely with the non-standard signal.

Option 2 (and what I'm looking to do) involves feeding an analog signal from the GSCARTSW's second, VGA-esque output (and 3.5mm audio) to some sort of analog capture device. The problem is I'm really not sure how to go about it, or the type of cable to buy.

I'm assuming buying some basic "VGA to XX" cable probably won't work? Will VGA capture devices usually work with 240p content? A bit lost here, so apologies for sounding like an idiot.

Cheers
-Jon

I've decided to buy the Startech USB3HDCAP and hope that it takes the signal from the GSCARTSW's VGA port (with the device's included DVI adapter). Assuming I'll need to switch the GSCARTSW to RGBHV mode but hoping it all works.

[Sunray]

I probed my SCART cables from retrogamingcables.co.uk and found that my SNES cable outputs 3v CSYNC and my Saturn cable outputs 5v CSYNC on SCART pin 20. This is way outside the SCART standard. I'm worried it will damage my CRT over time.

How does gscartsw_lite handle this and what will sync regeneration do with a 5v CSYNC signal?

[vmagix]

Trying to get the Startech USB3HDCAP working with the VGA output from the GSCARTSW. I have a VGA cable running from the GSCARTSW to a DVI adaptor and then into the USB3HDCAP (with separate audio)

It half-works, says that it's a 1440 (which is wrong) x 240p source @ 60fps, but it can't keep sync (keeps dropping out) - and only the left half of the capture is showing. This happens for all my RGB consoles.

I've heard that it only accepts HVSync, and I have the GSCARTSW set for that output (with the sync stripper on) but no dice. Has anyone got a similar setup and/or know where I'm going wrong? If you've got a micomsoft xcapture one I'd be interested to hear as well

[superg]

I probed my SCART cables from retrogamingcables.co.uk and found that my SNES cable outputs 3v CSYNC and my Saturn cable outputs 5v CSYNC on SCART pin 20. This is way outside the SCART standard. I'm worried it will damage my CRT over time.

How does gscartsw_lite handle this and what will sync regeneration do with a 5v CSYNC signal?

It can read more volts, don't measure voltage, measure resistance of sync line, there should be a resistor installed to limit current.

[superg]

Trying to get the Startech USB3HDCAP working with the VGA output from the GSCARTSW. I have a VGA cable running from the GSCARTSW to a DVI adaptor and then into the USB3HDCAP (with separate audio)

It half-works, says that it's a 1440 (which is wrong) x 240p source @ 60fps, but it can't keep sync (keeps dropping out) - and only the left half of the capture is showing. This happens for all my RGB consoles.

I've heard that it only accepts HVSync, and I have the GSCARTSW set for that output (with the sync stripper on) but no dice. Has anyone got a similar setup and/or know where I'm going wrong? If you've got a micomsoft xcapture one I'd be interested to hear as well

I own Micomsoft xcapture-1, it captures everything but PC software is terrible. Even if you will use 3rd party capture software, sometimes driver fails to initialize and I end up rebooting / unplugging / reinstalling the driver to make it work.

[vmagix]

Trying to get the Startech USB3HDCAP working with the VGA output from the GSCARTSW. I have a VGA cable running from the GSCARTSW to a DVI adaptor and then into the USB3HDCAP (with separate audio)

It half-works, says that it's a 1440 (which is wrong) x 240p source @ 60fps, but it can't keep sync (keeps dropping out) - and only the left half of the capture is showing. This happens for all my RGB consoles.

I've heard that it only accepts HVSync, and I have the GSCARTSW set for that output (with the sync stripper on) but no dice. Has anyone got a similar setup and/or know where I'm going wrong? If you've got a micomsoft xcapture one I'd be interested to hear as well

I own Micomsoft xcapture-1, it captures everything but PC software is terrible. Even if you will use 3rd party capture software, sometimes driver fails to initialize and I end up rebooting / unplugging / reinstalling the driver to make it work.

Cheers for the reply - should it work OK With a standard VGA cable (with DVI adaptor) from the GSCARTSW's VGA out port? Do you know if it needs HVSync or Csync? About to give up completely and send everything back to Amazon!

Kinda regretting buying the OSSC now. Would have been easier to split the Franemeister's HDMI output, but never mind!

[Blair]

vmagix, what VGA cable with DVI adaptor are you using? is it active or passive?

[superg]

Cheers for the reply - should it work OK With a standard VGA cable (with DVI adaptor) from the GSCARTSW's VGA out port? Do you know if it needs HVSync or Csync? About to give up completely and send everything back to Amazon!

Kinda regretting buying the OSSC now. Would have been easier to split the Franemeister's HDMI output, but never mind!

Yes, I used the standard monitor cable, no DVI involved.
Just a warning, you may regret buying xcapture-1 as well

[vmagix]

vmagix, what VGA cable with DVI adaptor are you using? is it active or passive?

Passive, just a 3m standard VGA cable - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0027HSXMQ
With this attached to the end (and plugged into the USB3HDCAP) https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0021YGUFM and audio fed from the 3.5mm out on the GSCARTSW to the RCA input on the USB3HDCAP

GSCARTSW VGA is set to HVSync, with Stripper on - but neither option makes a difference to the video output.

Having had a read around it looks like there are some non-specific issues with the USB3HDCAP drivers, and potentially I should be using some hacked ones made from the XCAPTURE-1 drivers (same internals apparently) but we'll see.

Thanks

[hyrulebr]

While the Extron SC210 doesn't solve the Garo's issues with the RGB lines themselves, it at least bypasses the Garo's sync issues.

Is there any difference in sync processing between the Extron SC210 and the RGB interfaces?

[Blair]

Having had a read around it looks like there are some non-specific issues with the USB3HDCAP drivers, and potentially I should be using some hacked ones made from the XCAPTURE-1 drivers (same internals apparently) but we'll see.

Thanks

yes, give the Micomsoft drivers a try with the USB3HDCAP. i've heard that fixes a bunch of issues. (from this blog: https://thethrillness.blogspot.com/2015 ... eview.html) StarTech and Micomsoft drivers for this device can have issues with the AMD FX series of CPUs. some users have also reported success with another set called the "Taiwanese drivers" so also give those a look.

[Mobiusstriptech]

I probed my SCART cables from retrogamingcables.co.uk and found that my SNES cable outputs 3v CSYNC and my Saturn cable outputs 5v CSYNC on SCART pin 20. This is way outside the SCART standard. I'm worried it will damage my CRT over time.

How does gscartsw_lite handle this and what will sync regeneration do with a 5v CSYNC signal?

It can read more volts, don't measure voltage, measure resistance of sync line, there should be a resistor installed to limit current.

Specifically you should have a 470ohm resistor on the sync line.

[superg]

Soldered all pre-order units!
All multi orders (2+ units) are shipped.
Some orders will be shipped tomorrow and all the rest will be shipped ASAP (for sure this week), might be before weekend.

[Dopefish]

Superg, thanks for being active and giving us updates on how things are going, aswell as going through the effort of making these to begin with!