How close do you sit to your CRTs?

andykara2003 · Post by **andykara2003** » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:50 pm

This is a bit of a nerdy/OCD topic but I do think it has some relevance and I haven't seen it discussed here so I thought I'd ask how close people sit to their CRTs.

This is significant to me because I I like to see an image come together as a tight, cohesive image that isn't overly pixellated/scanlined. It also depends on the size of the TV and resolution being viewed.

Here's my ideal distances for various TV sizes:

21" Consumer TV @15Khz: 3ft
25" Consumer TV @15Khz: 5 ft
29" Monitor/TV @ 31Khz: 4 ft.
21" BVM @15Khz: 2 ft (it's super scanlined and pixellated anyway so might as well give in to it!)

It might depend on other things as well - I play a lot of N64 and GC which both have softer images, even using their best output methods. So for these consoles I use a sharpening method to counter this (deblur for N64 on consumer set, Extron peak control for GC on NEC monitor). This makes the image much clearer but I don't like the effects of either close up. At the distances listed above however, the negative aspects of the sharpening effects disappear to give an overall much cleaner image than would otherwise be possible on their respective CRTs.

I'm fully aware that this topic is rather anal but would be interested to hear any opinions.

Blair · Post by **Blair** » Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:01 pm

interesting topic

lately it's been like this for me

20" Monitor/VGA @ 31Khz: 2 and 1/2 feet.
20" Monitor/VGA @ 31Khz: a little over 3 and 1/2 feet. (usually if I'm in bed)
14" PVM @15Khz: 1 and 1/2 feet

I've been primarily playing my Nintendo 64 through S-video on my 14" pvm and I find myself cranking the sharpness setting up about 30% from baseline. otherwise it's uncomfortably blurry. my preference is a little different than yours as I like my scanlines as prominent and visible as possible. (even on video content)

Steamflogger Boss · Post by **Steamflogger Boss** » Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:08 pm

I'm usually a little over 1' back from my PVM but it's only 14''. About 4-5' back from my 34'' HD CRT.

FinalBaton · Post by **FinalBaton** » Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:32 pm

8 feet

ShadowofBob · Post by **ShadowofBob** » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:18 pm

8ft from my 36" Sony XS955.
2-3ft from my 21" HP P1130.

The 36" XS955 still looks razor sharp at 8ft with the OSSC line-doubling 240P content. Probably could sit further away were it not for the tiny size of my game room.

andykara2003 · Post by **andykara2003** » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:56 pm

When displaying a 4:3 image on that Sony it would be almost exactly the same as viewing a 29" 4:3. 8ft is the distance I would sit from that for 15Khz as well.

ShadowofBob · Post by **ShadowofBob** » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:13 pm

andykara2003 wrote:When displaying a 4:3 image on that Sony it would be almost exactly the same as viewing a 29" 4:3. 8ft is the distance I would sit from that for 15Khz as well.

It's a 36" 4:3 HD CRT

. The only one with a superfine pitch tube. It's massive, both in weight and size.

andykara2003 · Post by **andykara2003** » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:43 pm

Oh right! I would have to sit a bit further away I think - but the line doubling style is totally opposite to what I go for so the same criteria wouldn't necessarily fit. I can totally appreciate how people love that look and for that I'm sure it looks amazing at 8ft. But for me I want scanlines to both reduce any blockyness and also to be at a distance where they almost disappear, creating a smoother image. To do that with a TV that size I would have to sit 10-12ft away..

ShadowofBob · Post by **ShadowofBob** » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:08 pm

andykara2003 wrote:Oh right! I would have to sit a bit further away I think - but the line doubling style is totally opposite to what I go for so the same criteria wouldn't necessarily fit. I can totally appreciate how people love that look and for that I'm sure it looks amazing at 8ft. But for me I want scanlines to both reduce any blockyness and also to be at a distance where they almost disappear, creating a smoother image. To do that with a TV that size I would have to sit 10-12ft away..

Yeah, I usually play with scanlines on because of how sharp everything is, but it depends on the title. You can still see some blockiness even with the scanlines enabled, but it is heavily reduced.

FinalBaton · Post by **FinalBaton** » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:43 pm

While I sit at 8 feet from the NEC XM37 Plus, I could sit a bit farther back and it would still look sharp

I sometimes sit at 6 feet with 240p, just for fun. To get that "surrounded by the screen" feeling and to really see the scanlines.

At 8 feet the scanlines aren't super noticeable though, but I actually like that. It almost looks like I'm playing these low res games at 480p

For 480p and up, I always sit at 8 feet.

Ikaruga11 · Post by **Ikaruga11** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:38 am

1 inch away so I can see the phosphors.

andykara2003 · Post by **andykara2003** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:55 am

FinalBaton wrote:For 480p and up, I always sit at 8 feet.

Interesting, so I think for a similar pixel density I would have to sit at about 5ft from my XV29, accounting for the 29" vs 37" screen size.

Playing GC, at 5ft any artefacts from the sharpening methods I use have completely disappeared and the image is perfect. The thing is that I'm so used to playing on big flat panels now that even 5ft seems just a touch far to sit from a screen that size. I don't feel quite as involved in the game as I'd like to be. It's odd because back in the day we were totally used to sitting this far (and further) from our CRTs and still felt completely absorbed by our games.

I think the answer is, for N64, Gamecube and Wii games, get used to it. These consoles look pretty soft and don't look great up close. As I say, the only way I can get them to look good is to add some sharpness (being careful not to overdo it) and sit far enough away for the effect to blend and effectively disappear - 5-6ft for N64 on a 25" screen and 5ft for GC/Wii on a 29".

That you have to go to these lengths to get a good image from Nintendo's consoles came into sharp(!) relief yesterday when I connected my Dreamcast to my 29" via VGA. Shenmue 2 looks *great* in comparison - pretty aliased but so clean. I've seen this before of course but straight after messing around trying to get everything right for CG/Wii, the difference was striking. For that console I can sit 3-4ft from a 29" and the image still looks fine..

Xyga · Post by **Xyga** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:11 am

Close enough to lick.

More seriously it depends on what I play, a couple of weeks ago at a friend's we were trying the Saturn port of Outrun on a 25" euro cabinet (Royal Video Special), and I simply couldn't play, too close for the deluge of fast super scaled sprites, my eyes just couldn't follow.

(Tried to play pushing the seat back and stretching my arms, only forgetting I was at the edge of a 15cm high platform with no guard. Ouch.)

No problem with typical 2D games though.

Also in some situations 29" Japanese candy cabs can be slightly too big for me especially in tate, the size isnt a good match for the area covered by my glasses, I just wish the panel could be adjusted to allow me to sit a bit further.

So for a long time it's been CRT + supergun for me.

jwo825 · Post by **jwo825** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:02 pm

Wow, people sit really close to their CRTs. I have 2

14" Panasonic consumer set and a PVM-20L5. I sit about 4-5 feet from them when I'm playing. It's really the only option I have because i'm in a condo and space is limited. The Panasonic is fine, but the PVM can really tax my eyeballs at that distance. I'd prefer to be about 6-7 feet back. I can still see the scan lines clearly at that range. I'm guessing it's because the PVM has so many more lines of resolution that the screen seems brighter? More electrons assulting the eyeballs?

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:31 pm

I have a 20" BVM right on my desk next to my computer monitor, so... too close for comfort.

Wachenroder · Post by **Wachenroder** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:29 pm

My main 20 inch PVM is right by my bed side.

usually play for an hour or 2 before bed and having it anywhere else in the room would not be convenient considering all the cables and stuff. Not to mention no wireless remotes.

i have to admit it does fell wrong lol

ChuChu Flamingo · Post by **ChuChu Flamingo** » Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:20 pm

I usually sit around 3 and a half feet from my 27'' CRT give or take. On the cabinet I sit closer for obvious reasons.

Hoagtech · Post by **Hoagtech** » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:19 pm

FinalBaton wrote:8 feet

Same here.

I like big screens and I cannot lie

andykara2003 · Post by **andykara2003** » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:49 pm

Hoagtech wrote:I like big screens and I cannot lie

8 feet from what sized screen?

Hoagtech · Post by **Hoagtech** » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:52 am

andykara2003 wrote:
Hoagtech wrote:I like big screens and I cannot lie
8 feet from what sized screen?

37" Mitsubishi mega view monitor

Taiyaki · Post by **Taiyaki** » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:52 am

andykara2003 wrote:This is a bit of a nerdy/OCD topic but I do think it has some relevance and I haven't seen it discussed here so I thought I'd ask how close people sit to their CRTs.

This is significant to me because I I like to see an image come together as a tight, cohesive image that isn't overly pixellated/scanlined. It also depends on the size of the TV and resolution being viewed.

Here's my ideal distances for various TV sizes:

21" Consumer TV @15Khz: 3ft
25" Consumer TV @15Khz: 5 ft
29" Monitor/TV @ 31Khz: 4 ft.
21" BVM @15Khz: 2 ft (it's super scanlined and pixellated anyway so might as well give in to it!)

It might depend on other things as well - I play a lot of N64 and GC which both have softer images, even using their best output methods. So for these consoles I use a sharpening method to counter this (deblur for N64 on consumer set, Extron peak control for GC on NEC monitor). This makes the image much clearer but I don't like the effects of either close up. At the distances listed above however, the negative aspects of the sharpening effects disappear to give an overall much cleaner image than would otherwise be possible on their respective CRTs.

I'm fully aware that this topic is rather anal but would be interested to hear any opinions.

Actually the BVM's are 19 inch, and because of the curve they give more of an 18 inch viewable in my opinion. I think 2 feet is definitely required on those from my personal experience.

I favor those medium sizes myself so with 20 inch Trinitron's I'll sit about 3 feet or maybe 3 and a half feet from the screen. Really depends on the system and the sharpness. If it's Neogeo I like a bit closer.

Einzelherz · Post by **Einzelherz** » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:58 pm

I feel bad for so many retinas in this thread.

andykara2003 · Post by **andykara2003** » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:21 pm

You thinking people sit too close?

Einzelherz · Post by **Einzelherz** » Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:40 pm

Some of them seem so, especially at the brightness levels I see a lot of people using. The only screen I probably get in that 3 feet range with is my 14", but that lives in the closet currently.

andykara2003 · Post by **andykara2003** » Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:30 pm

Good to know, that's the reason I was interested really - whether I'm sitting a bit close. To be honest I get a bit OCD about image quality and as I say, being within a close enough range of a certain TV/monitor size brings out the flaws in the image to an extent that it bothers me. I think I'll adjust my sitting position to just a couple of feet further back than I'd usually sit - that way all those annoying quirks disappear.

I think you have a point re. eye strain as well. For modern games I sit quite close to a bright plasma (5-6ft from a 46") and do all my gaming with low ambient lighting so I can get an impactful image without driving the phosphors too hard - but I'm also getting older and don't want to ruin my eyes. I love a striking, vibrant image but perhaps it's time to get used to turning the levels down a notch or two..

Blair · Post by **Blair** » Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:58 pm

I think eye strain has a lot to do with lighting conditions in the room the crt is in, obviously you don't want brightness and contrast maxed out if the room is pitch black (same goes for LCDs). but it might be necessary in a very brightly lit room. also, it's always a good idea to take breaks. at least every 30 - 45 minutes.

andykara2003 · Post by **andykara2003** » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:53 pm

Sure - so the ideal might be a lower brightness in a darker room so as to preserve both your phosphors and retinas.

Einzelherz · Post by **Einzelherz** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:15 am

My TVs are at 120cd/mm² or nearly there. My PC monitor is set to 100 cause it's so close. But I also use basic 700-800 lumen soft white in my rooms cause I dislike too bright lighting.

andykara2003 · Post by **andykara2003** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:23 am

Is there a quick & dirty (and cheap) way of getting a rough cd/mm2 measurement?

donluca · Post by **donluca** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:08 am

Well, I have a SEGA Astro City candy cab which doesn't leave me much choice, so it's 29" in my face!

shmups.system11.org

How close do you sit to your CRTs?

How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?

Re: How close do you sit to your CRTs?