gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thread

[coderkind]

Hello,
yesterday I got the lite

My setup is a Samsung KS7000 using a Framemeister. If I connect the SNES to the mini directly, the image is just perfect, but if I connect the gscart lite to the mini and then the SNES to the gscart, the image I get is yellow tinted, like if it was super super warm. I've checked with 2 different SNES, a 1-chip and a 2-chip and 2 different cables, a Sync on luma from retrorgamingcables and a sync on composite I got many years ago, happens the same with both consoles and cables. Also checked with sync regeneration on and off, same again.

It might not help much, but I've a modded SNES Mini (done by videogameperfection in the UK) and it works perfect through the gscartsw_lite (CSYNC packapunch cable from retrogamingcables).

[hyrulebr]

Not to get off topic but Tim Worthington has said he is working on an rgb mod for the Atari 7800. Hoping that may fix what your describing.

Hi

I don´t have the real Atari 7800. I only have an Analogue NT mini with an Atari 7800 core (FPGA simulation). But the developer (Kevtris) said that he follow the exactly video output of each console, so probably the real Atari 7800 could have the same sync issue. I can confirm that the Master system core have the same behavior as the real master system and both were fixed with Extron 580xi, extron 109xi and now with Gscartw_lite daisychained to Gscartw 3.2).

I´ll try latter if any extron interface will solve the atari 7800 core sync issue.

[robneal81]

.

[superg]

I know this probably isn't the place to ask, but I will be away from home next week and won't be back until Monday, Aug 7. If you haven't already shipped my gscartsw_lite, would it be possible to wait until I get back to ship it? I live in an apartment and want to prevent against the possibility of theft or weather damage while I'm away.

Need your order info, PM sent

Hello,
yesterday I got the lite

So far I tested it with Staturn, Megadrive, PlayStation and SNES. Everything seems to work perfect but the SNES.

My setup is a Samsung KS7000 using a Framemeister. If I connect the SNES to the mini directly, the image is just perfect, but if I connect the gscart lite to the mini and then the SNES to the gscart, the image I get is yellow tinted, like if it was super super warm. I've checked with 2 different SNES, a 1-chip and a 2-chip and 2 different cables, a Sync on luma from retrorgamingcables and a sync on composite I got many years ago, happens the same with both consoles and cables. Also checked with sync regeneration on and off, same again.

I've taken a couple crappy pictures with phone, I you look closely you can see the effect, but it's much more visible in person. Any ideas? Is there a problem with my gscart lite?

Screen cap using the Gscart:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B06_M ... 3ZYNG95MFE

Screen cap direct connection to the mini:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B06_M ... zJEZExFdEk

Again, sorry for the crappy pictures.

Any help will be much appreciated

I see that everything looks brighter if connected throught lite. Shouldn't be a switch problem if other consoles are fine, might be some setup / SNES specific thing. What components do you have in your cables? Are consoles modded?

[Kagigod]

I see that everything looks brighter if connected throught lite. Shouldn't be a switch problem if other consoles are fine, might be some setup / SNES specific thing. What components do you have in your cables? Are consoles modded?

The main SNES is a SNSP-1chip-01 with borti's super CIC board. The scart cable connecting the gscart with the xrgb mini is the one from retro console accessories and the one from the snes to the gscart is the sync on luma cable from retrogamingcables ( from uk). The other SNES has a simpler mod, cic enabled/disabled and 60hz using a a couple of switches. The effect is the same on both consoles. Inside the retrogamingcables scart there are 4 resistors connected to some pins. I haven't opened the retro console accesories scart yet, do you want me to?

Also, found something weird with sync regeneration ON, with the 1chip snes, the opening from Yoshi's Island shakes a lot, but the image while in game is stable. With CS set to OFF, the intro is stable too. Also, none of this happens if I plug the SNES to the mini directly.

[Mobiusstriptech]

I see that everything looks brighter if connected throught lite. Shouldn't be a switch problem if other consoles are fine, might be some setup / SNES specific thing. What components do you have in your cables? Are consoles modded?

The main SNES is a SNSP-1chip-01 with borti's super CIC board. The scart cable connecting the gscart with the mini is the one from retro console accessories and the one from the snes to the gscart is the sync on luma cable from retrogamingcables ( from uk). The other SNES has a simpler mod, cic enabled/disabled and 60hz using a a couple of switches. The effect is the same on both consoles. Inside the retrogamingcables scart there are 4 resistors connected to some pins. I haven't opened the retro console accesories scart yet, do you want me to?

Also, found something weird with sync regeneration ON, with the 1chip snes, the opening from Yoshi's Island shakes a lot, but the image while in game is stable. With CS set to OFF, the intro is stable too. Also, none of this happens if I plug the SNES to the mini directly.

So I am assuming you are saying that neither console has had any sort of additional modification done to the RGB signals, just other mods. Are your cables PAL cables or NTSC cables? Regardless of where you bought them from, both are available and they are not interchangeable. Since it sounds like both of your consoles are PAL, you need to be certain you have PAL cables.

[FBX]

Inside the retrogamingcables scart there are 4 resistors connected to some pins. I haven't opened the retro console accesories scart yet, do you want me to?

The cable from r-g-c is designed for the PAL standard if it has resisitors on the lines. You need to make sure the one from r-c-a was also designed for PAL standards, because the NTSC standard uses caps instead of resistors.

[superg]

Also, found something weird with sync regeneration ON, with the 1chip snes, the opening from Yoshi's Island shakes a lot, but the image while in game is stable. With CS set to OFF, the intro is stable too. Also, none of this happens if I plug the SNES to the mini directly.

This might be related to:
"Due to minuscule differences in video timings between PAL and NTSC consoles, users connecting modified PAL consoles to HDTVs (either directly or via an upscaler such as an XRGB) may experience stuttering/juddering during scrolling in games when playing in 60hz. This is not a fault with our SuperCIC boards (we’re just the only website honest enough to tell you it could happen). This does not affect CRT users, see this page for more information.Since the SuperCIC board for the Super Famicom Junior/1-chip consoles includes a replacement clock crystal, this mod is NOT affected by the scroll stutter issue."
https://www.videogameperfection.com/pro ... cic-board/
Are you able to get a stock SNES somewhere and try it?

[coderkind]

@superg; I've a PC Engine Duo currently being RGB modded with a 7374 based amp from borti4938 (https://github.com/borti4938).

The mod currently using the original composite as sync apparently, but has similar sync options to Voultar's (ttl sync, 75 ohm sync, etc). Can you confirm if the gscartsw_lite will likely play nicely with the sync coming from the composite video output of the Duo, or might require the tweaking as suggested above (ttl, 75 ohm sync, etc)?

Asking so I don't have to arrange for it to be delivered, then discover the gscartsw_lite might not work with it, then have to send it away for additional work. I appreciate you might have to make an educated guess on this if unfamiliar with Borti's stuff.

Thanks for your help

[superg]

@superg; I've a PC Engine Duo currently being RGB modded with a 7374 based amp from borti4938 (https://github.com/borti4938).

The mod currently using the original composite as sync apparently, but has similar sync options to Voultar's (ttl sync, 75 ohm sync, etc). Can you confirm if the gscartsw_lite will likely play nicely with the sync coming from the composite video output of the Duo, or might require the tweaking as suggested above (ttl, 75 ohm sync, etc)?

Asking so I don't have to arrange for it to be delivered, then discover the gscartsw_lite might not work with it, then have to send it away for additional work. I appreciate you might have to make an educated guess on this if unfamiliar with Borti's stuff.

Thanks for your help

I can't confirm until I try it myself (which I haven't yet) and I'm snowed under completing the pre-orders.
On the other hand I won't be able to try all sorts of mods because there are many, so "officially" it's still "mods are not supported".

[RyuJose]

Hi superg, I have a fix for the PC-Engine/grafxbooster issue I asked you about, via Rene, the engineer who sells the db-grafxbooster.

I tweeted him with the issue and he asked if my grafxbooster had a "jumper for csync voltage select labeled 75 / TTL", which it does.

Then I tweeted him a photo of the jumper for csync voltage select and it was set to 75. He asked me to change it to TTL and to try again, and voilà, I had an image once the pc-engine was connected to my pvm through your gscartsw_lite via his grafxbooster.

here is the jumper when it was set to 75 (first pic). when I lifted the black piece off revealing 3 pins (second pic), and when I set the black piece to TTL








Hope this helps anyone having trouble getting the grafxbooster for PC-Engine/coregrafx and gscartsw_lite to play nice together on a PVM

[superg]

Hi superg, I have a fix for the PC-Engine/grafxbooster issue I asked you about, via Rene, the engineer who sells the db-grafxbooster.

I tweeted him with the issue and he asked if my grafxbooster had a "jumper for csync voltage select labeled 75 / TTL", which it does.

Then I tweeted him a photo of the jumper for csync voltage select and it was set to 75. He asked me to change it to TTL and to try again, and voilà, I had an image once the pc-engine was connected to my pvm through your gscartsw_lite via his grafxbooster.

here is the jumper when it was set to 75 (first pic). when I lifted the black piece off revealing 3 pins (second pic), and when I set the black piece to TTL

Hope this helps anyone having trouble getting the grafxbooster for PC-Engine/coregrafx and gscartsw_lite to play nice together on a PVM

Well, it's all good but TTL sync is unsupported by the switch!
I don't have an explanation why does it work. Might look into it and measure things later.

[Mobiusstriptech]

Maybe it's actually wired backwards on the db grafx booster? Rene is human, it's possible he made a mistake.

[superg]

I soldered more units today, those will be assembled and packed tomorrow.
Now I've got help so things should go 2x as fast!

[benvw99]

I soldered more units today, those will be assembled and packed tomorrow.
Now I've got help so things should go 2x as fast!

which units did you finish?

[Mobiusstriptech]

The ones that are done?

If PayPal updates you with a tracking number, then yours is one of the ones superg finished. Otherwise just relax. You can't expect him to list out whose units have been finished every time he finishes one.

[Kagigod]

The cable from r-g-c is designed for the PAL standard if it has resisitors on the lines. You need to make sure the one from r-c-a was also designed for PAL standards, because the NTSC standard uses caps instead of resistors.

The r-c-a cable is a scart to mini-din (xrgb mini) cable, so it's neither NTSC nor PAL. Opened it to be sure but as expected there wasn't any resistor or capacitor on it.

This might be related to:
"Due to minuscule differences in video timings between PAL and NTSC consoles, users connecting modified PAL consoles to HDTVs (either directly or via an upscaler such as an XRGB) may experience stuttering/juddering during scrolling in games when playing in 60hz. This is not a fault with our SuperCIC boards (we’re just the only website honest enough to tell you it could happen). This does not affect CRT users, see this page for more information.Since the SuperCIC board for the Super Famicom Junior/1-chip consoles includes a replacement clock crystal, this mod is NOT affected by the scroll stutter issue."
https://www.videogameperfection.com/pro ... cic-board/
Are you able to get a stock SNES somewhere and try it?

I can check on a stock SNES, no problem, but this being a 1-chip console, if I understand correctly, as the mod contains an NTSC crystal as well, the SNES shouldn't be affected by the stuttering issue.

I would like to remark that I don't experience any of these issues if I skip the gscart lite and connect the SNES straight to the xrgb mini.

[Mobiusstriptech]

So when you were talking about having a mini, you meant the framemeister not a SNES Mini. I think you confused most of us because there is a version of the SNES that is called the Mini.

[Kagigod]

So when you were talking about having a mini, you meant the framemeister not a SNES Mini. I think you confused most of us because there is a version of the SNES that is called the Mini.

Ouch!! Exactly, I just edited former messages to make it clear

[h1ghju1ce]

Received my LITE yesterday, havent had chance to play with it yet, but thought I'd post my total time and costs
so that others can have realistic expectations when ordering (in the UK)

Pre-ordered Date: (cant find that info, not sure if I got a confirmation email...)

Paypal $ taken 3rd may $215 (£172.06) *

* This batch SugerG did actually have a problem with the manufacturers that he had to correct, so I guess this is probably a worst case time scale compared to future batches

Posted 17th July
Arrived 26th July (thats with the probably delay of Royal mail processing the customs charge, maybe added a day to the total)

customs+royal mail charges: 27.12

total time: 12 weeks exactly
total cost: £199.18

[superg]

I would like to remark that I don't experience any of these issues if I skip the gscart lite and connect the SNES straight to the xrgb mini.

This I get, but you should understand that every device functions differently when non standard signal is supplied.
Nobody is having SNES issues with the switch with an exception of some incorrectly modded SNES Minis.
Otherwise it would be a disaster for me to troubleshoot that as SNES I'd say is #1 console used with gscartsw / lite

[juji82]

customs+royal mail charges: 27.12

That is like more than 10%!

[Pushky]

Here in portugal a 215$ order would pay like 60 or 70€ of customs and charges and that's a rough estimate on the low side.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[axlblazeadam]

Here in portugal a 215$ order would pay like 60 or 70€ of customs and charges and that's a rough estimate on the low side.

Same in the Netherlands. Paid $30 customs charge over a $90 Famicom Mini last week. Shipping not even included. Thieves...

[DirkSwizzler]

Questions about the gscartsw 3.4 VGA output.

Does the VGA output handle non-csync inputs? I'm assuming that this is one of the reasons the sync stripper is embedded and probably has to turn on for non-csync sources.

Does separating RGBS into RGBHV introduce a line delay similar to LM1881 sync stripping?

I ask because yesterday I was informed that SCART generally hasn't supported anything better than 480i and so device support is generally spotty. I've decided to try chaining all my input types individually to VGA (luckily I just happened to have half of the Behar Bros product line lying around) to ensure that all paths lead upward in resolution and pin separation support. So I want to think through the setup a bit to ensure I'm not unnecessarily introducing conversion artifacts.

Details on the rough conversion and switching plan in case anyone has useful tips.

Spoiler

I'll have SCART non-csync sources plugged into a gscartsw_lite
I'll have SCART csync sources (as well as the gscartsw_lite) plugged into a gscartsw 3.4
I'll have the gscartsw 3.4 outputting VGA RGBHV into a Aten VS0401

I'll have component sources plugged into a gcompsw
I'll have the gcompsw plugged into a Garo
I'll have the Garo outputting VGA RGBHV into the Aten VS0401

I'll have my dreamcast plugged into a Hanzo
I'll have the Hanzo plugged into the Aten VS0401

Ideally I'll have the Aten VS0401 plugged into the VGA port of an OSSC. But it looks like it'll be at least september until that happens. So in the meantime:

I'll have the Aten VS0401 plugged into a Kenzei and hook up either the SCART or component to a framemeister. I realize I could probably rewire the setup to trend towards component as the last step to avoid double conversion there. But I feel like this config is good if the upscaler accepts VGA so I might as reorganize for that scenario now and work out kinks.

I'm open to comments if anyone with experience converting signals that might be relevant.

EDITS: Typo "composite" -> "component"

[Guspaz]

I'll have composite sources plugged into a gcompsw
I'll have the gcompsw plugged into a Garo
I'll have the Garo outputting VGA RGBHV into the Aten VS0401

The Garo does not support composite sources, only component sources. The Garo has bad csync output (it does not combine H/V sync correctly) but the RGBHV output is a bit less worse: it doesn't have the sync issues although it is still not correctly buffered and outputs at the wrong voltage.

Ideally I'll have the Aten VS0401 plugged into the VGA port of an OSSC.

That means that you are feeding all your consoles into the OSSC's VGA port, which should not be used for such general-purpose input. It does not completely properly support 480i, and has limited LPF support. No LPF for sync, and no video LPF for 240p/480i/480p/720p.

[DirkSwizzler]

I'll have composite sources plugged into a gcompsw
I'll have the gcompsw plugged into a Garo
I'll have the Garo outputting VGA RGBHV into the Aten VS0401

The Garo does not support composite sources, only component sources.

Typo on my part. I meant to say component. I'll go ahead and burn all my composite sources in a fire.

[Mobiusstriptech]

Ordered my gscart_lite on May 5 and just got notified of shipment. Looking forward to hooking it up soon.

[superg]

Ordered my gscart_lite on May 5 and just got notified of shipment. Looking forward to hooking it up soon.

I've shipped some units today and soldering more for tomorrow.
If all goes well, all the pre-orders will be shipped this week.

[superg]

Questions about the gscartsw 3.4 VGA output.

Does the VGA output handle non-csync inputs? I'm assuming that this is one of the reasons the sync stripper is embedded and probably has to turn on for non-csync sources.

Does separating RGBS into RGBHV introduce a line delay similar to LM1881 sync stripping?

Yes, EL1883 (similar to LM1881) introduces a delay in v3.4 VGA output sync. Simply you'll always have that delay on VGA output.

Some comments on your setup: I'd use gscartsw_lite as a final processing unit in your chain, it has least latency and sync regeneration is much faster than EL1883. That is:
gscartsw_v3.4 [utilize SCART output, keep CSYNC off] -> gscartsw_lite (with sync regeneration on) -> XRGB-Mini. Make RGBS your default choice (not RGBHV). Garo can be connected directly to lite using RGBS, it'll be gcompsw -> Garo -> gscartsw_lite. What is left is Dreamcast / Hanzo which can be connected either using ArcadeForge VGA2SCART (this combination is tested by me) or I think you can just get that other thing from beharius, forgot the name, you'll directly get RGBS from Dreamcast not depending on mode. Then you can totally exclude Aten from your chain.