Prelude to the Apocalypse

[antron]

I might be biased since I find religion in general to be trash garbage for fat idiots.

But when someone shouts praises to Allah while they stab someone to death, I have trouble believing that Islam wasn't somehow related to their decision.

It's related like the Bible is related to the Holocaust. Definitely related.

[Giest118]

Christianity: Be like Jesus
Jesus: *is nice to everybody and tells everybody else to be nice to everybody*

Islam: Be like Muhammad
Muhammad: *has a bunch of wives, including a small child, and also gets everything he wants by being a warlord and conquering everybody with violence*

[antron]

Yet the Holocaust happened. Was it Luke 19:27 perhaps? Doubtful. Just hatred.

[Giest118]

Since you're bringing up the Holocaust so much, let's ask Hitler what he thinks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious ... r_on_Islam

According to Speer, Hitler stated in private, "The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"[203]

Similarly, Hitler was transcribed as saying: "Had Charles Martel not been victorious at Poitiers [...] then we should in all probability have been converted to Mohammedanism, that cult which glorifies the heroism and which opens up the seventh Heaven to the bold warrior alone. Then the Germanic races would have conquered the world."[205]

There spoke a man who knew how to commit evil on a massive scale.

Gosh. I sure am glad the nazis weren't muslim.

[BryanM]

Jesus most certainly was not nice to everybody. He advocated to sell your clothes and buy a sword if you didn't own one, and did horrible things to the bankers.

Know who else wants to do bad things to the bankers?



But real tea - Christians believe anyone who isn't under the banner of Jeezurs is going to be cast down to hell in the Final Judgment. At a fundamental level there's no basis of tolerance of those who stand against Jesus as the path - atheists, pagans, muslims, hindu; all monsters trying to talk you and your kid into going to hell forever.

If your brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife tries to secretly entice you, telling you to go and worship other gods, gods of people living near you, or far from you, or anywhere on earth, do not listen to him.



You must kill them. Show them no pity. And your hand must strike the first blow.



Then the hands of all the people. You shall stone them to death.

religion of peace and internal consistency.jpg

[antron]

That's all old testament. Luke 19:27 is the only thing like that Jebus ever said, and that has to be taken out of context.

Giest118 might be right. But I think Hitler proved you don't really need anything like this. Just hate.

[Giest118]

Hatred comes from somewhere, and there are a lot of ways to generate it. Islam could be such a tool, and I think there's merit to the idea that it's a more potent tool for hatred than Christianity is. That could change if Islam ever went through the type of reformation that Christianity did.

[Mischief Maker]

Hatred comes from somewhere, and there are a lot of ways to generate it.

When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but that instead a riot was breaking out, he took water and washed his hands before the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “You shall bear the responsibility.” All the people answered, “His blood be on us and on our children!” So Pilate released Barabbas to them. But he had Jesus flogged and handed Him over to be crucified

(emphasis added)

Gee, I wonder where the Nazis got their hatred of Jews from? Or why the Vatican was so friendly with them?

Fuckin' motherlode of bad ideas, that book. I bet all Christians are members of the Westboro Baptist church.

[BryanM]

That's all old testament.

"That's just the core books. We ignore the monster manual, dungeon master's guide and player's guide and play only using the socialist wizard upgrade pack!"

"Oh, Jesus is here! Guess the old rules don't matter! Burn the ten commandments, pee on your parents and bang your neighbor's wife!"

Let's not be silly and make apologies for this barbaric faith that dictates you kill disobedient children and beat uppity wives. Let's not pretend marriage was anything more than ownership of women.

All religions are tools of social control to align a group into a perfect vessel to fulfill the wishes of the tribal leaders. Otherwise they wouldn't be religions; they'd be philosophies. Like Buddhism was, until it got all weird and commercialized.

Don't even get me started on the Vow of Poverty. They're all full of it - no human can or should fit in these cookie cutter molds they try to advocate for.

The only concept that really remains inprinted en masse in first world countries is the carrot - the holodeck heaven at the end. While denial is an excellent coping mechanism to get through life, why do you even need a religion to believe in an afterlife? Holodeck heaven isn't even in the Bible, for crying out loud, you just get to become Yahweh's poop in the best interpretation of the thing...

IT'S WEIRD

[Rob]

[Giest118]

It's probably worth noting that when a lot of people talk about the way "those fucking muslims" act, what they're referring to might not actually be about Islam itself, but the culture that seems to have spawned in primarily Islamic countries.

I mean, centuries of inbreeding, according to Rob's sources. I don't know if that's something the Koran tells you to do, but it seems weirdly popular in Islamic countries.

[antron]

I don't know if that's something the Koran tells you to do, but it seems weirdly popular in Islamic countries.

Apparently the Koran allows it, and Muhammad's own family practiced it. This is clearly incredibly stupid.

All added:
Sarah was Abraham's niece, or possible half sister. Jacob married two first cousins. It goes on. It has always been a middle Eastern thing.

Interesting topic. It seems this was popular among Jews until the European diaspora. It is speculated this led to the known genetic disorders among some families. Genetic testing is a popular practice now because of these risks, whatever the cause. If it was cousin marriage, this doesn't seem to have affected intelligence.

[Giest118]

That's racist and you should feel racist for saying it.





I'm joking.

[trap15]

wew this thread has gone and is going places

[BulletMagnet]

I've read that that is not a good thing for the old computer.

If you really want to delve into mental capacity you could just as easily reference the high amounts of lead and other such incapacitors Westerners have been (mostly) inadvertently consuming since at least the Roman empire, to the point that it's been theorized that the ongoing downward trend in U.S. crime statistics (in spite of the hordes of immigrants apparently wreaking havoc everywhere) has at least as much to do with government prohibitions on lead as it does with anything law enforcement-related. And no, lead can't be called a cultural institution (well, for the most part) the same way as marriage can, but either way it certainly took us long enough to figure it out; so what's our excuse? Y'know, besides the lead. Also feel free to connect the dots to the obesity epidemic, skyrocketing drug addiction, and other ways we're continuing to make ourselves dumber and weaker, often defiantly and proudly; nobody, especially no egghead "expert", tells us what to do!

Before the alt-righters jump down my throat, no, I'm not saying that Western culture is innately "worse" than everyone else, or that every single cultural problem around the world can be traced directly to it, but I would posit that self-destructive behavior that ends up having negative effects on others is not unique to any culture, and moreover that if you want to address long-standing behaviors and traditions of this nature then you have to start by eliminating the conditions that allow them to continually proliferate, instead of simply declaring millions upon millions of people as complete lost causes.

[Mischief Maker]

So what do you think of Khizr and Ghazala Khan and their son Army Captain Humayun Khan who died fighting for this country in Iraq? They're Muslim immigrants!

Monsters who should be deported?

Army Captain Humayun Khan and the self defeating need to point out "oh, look, a good muslim!", aside.

No! Not self-defeating! Completely negating of Rob's central argument. His argument that Muslim immigrants will not integrate into the United States.

Because he seems to think that all 1.8 billion Muslims are Saudi-style Wahhabist Fundamentalists with a hive-minded intent on subverting our culture and/or raping the white wimmins, straight out of Steve Bannon's favorite book, "The Camp of the Saints."

antron and I are saying that we have Muslim friends and coworkers who we know personally who do not fall into that caricature but in fact are human beings with their own diverse thoughts and feelings. Do you or Rob know any Muslims personally? Or are you putting your faith in your local Sinclair-owned TV station (whose parent corporation has a quid pro quo relationship with Trump) to do the thinking for you?

And Zen, for someone who's just innocently asking questions about the origins of stereotypes, do you realize you're engaging in a stereotypically racist behavior? You're dismissing individuals in a minority group who fail to fit your caricature by saying, "They're one of the good ones, they don't count. The vast majority of their group are still the monsters of my imagination who should be locked into second-class citizen status by law to protect the white wimmins. I'll just hope that the good people in the government enforcing these racist laws can see for themselves that these individuals are 'good ones' and will suspend these laws when it comes to them."

[antron]

I've read that that is not a good thing for the old computer.

The effect becomes borderline correlative when you correct for GDP.

Or other things, as pointed out here:
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/ ... .2010.0973
Parasite prevalence and the worldwide distribution of cognitive ability

Woodley (2009), however, noted that rates of consanguineous marriage itself may not account for the magnitude of this variation because (i) the statistical significance of the effect disappears when education and gross domestic product (GDP) are controlled for, and (ii) the effect of inbreeding on intelligence had previously been shown to be relatively small

[Zen]

No! Not self-defeating! Completely negating of Rob's central argument. His argument that Muslim immigrants will not integrate into the United States.

Because he seems to think that all 1.8 billion Muslims are Saudi-style Wahhabist Fundamentalists with a hive-minded intent on subverting our culture and/or raping the white wimmins, straight out of Steve Bannon's favorite book, "The Camp of the Saints."

No, the example of Army Captain Humayun Khan does not Completely negate Rob's central argument that Muslim immigrants will not integrate into the United States. Again, that was my central criticisim of your Army Captain Humayun Khan example.
That you were guilty of the "one good anything argument". How is this not clear?

antron and I are saying that we have Muslim friends and coworkers who we know personally who do not fall into that caricature but in fact are human beings with their own diverse thoughts and feelings. Do you or Rob know any Muslims personally? Or are you putting your faith in your local Sinclair-owned TV station (whose parent corporation has a quid pro quo relationship with Trump) to do the thinking for you?

That's a lot of presumptions, my friend. Yes, I know they are phrased as questions but a lot of pigeonholing and labelling is going on in those questions. I like reading and considering your ideas, Mischief Maker. Please don't spoil it by being an asshole towards me.

And Zen, for someone who's just innocently asking questions about the origins of stereotypes, do you realize you're engaging in a stereotypically racist behavior? You're dismissing individuals in a minority group who fail to fit your caricature by saying, "They're one of the good ones, they don't count. The vast majority of their group are still the monsters of my imagination who should be locked into second-class citizen status by law to protect the white wimmins. I'll just hope that the good people in the government enforcing these racist laws can see for themselves that these individuals are 'good ones' and will suspend these laws when it comes to them."

I said and did none of that. It was in fact you that was guilty of the fallacious argument that you accuse me of.
I pointed out to you, that for you to use Army Captain Humayun Khan as an example of successful ‌integration, smacked of the "one good anything" argument which was a self defeating argument because it was not an indicator as to the state of overall muslim integration anywhere.

[Giest118]

The existence of Army Captain Humayun Khan means that muslim immigration into Europe is just swell. Forever. Nothing has gone wrong. In fact, Captain Humayun Khan has negated all problems with every muslim who ever has or ever will exist.

I can participate in reductive horseshit too.

[Blinge]

I'm reminded of that muslim girl I met who'd take it in the ass but not the vagine as she wanted to remain 'technically' a virgin.

'Integration' happens in more families and individuals than our resident racist brigade want to believe imo, successive generations throw off the religious yoke. While some cultural remnants probably remain, it's just a matter of time. Friends of mine have done so, my own family aren't Catholic anymore.

I guess that makes me an optimist. I find myself agreeing with Harris in the simple sense that Christianity in its current state is far more palatable because christians are mostly bad at being christians, they don't follow scripture to the letter.
I wonder if the whole world would be better if the religions would finally update and throw away the holy books.

Anyway pantomime time. They can integrate!
No they can't!
Yes they do!
No they don't!

[Giest118]

They can integrate if given sufficient time and--this is important--INCENTIVE to do so. Europe hasn't been doing that. They've just been letting migrants form their own communes where their origin country's culture is perpetuated ad infinitum. Meanwhile, anyone who suggests that these communes are problematic is branded as a HATE-SPEWING RACIST NAZI DEATH HELL SATAN.

[Durandal]

They can integrate if given sufficient time and--this is important--INCENTIVE to do so. Europe hasn't been doing that. They've just been letting migrants form their own communes where their origin country's culture is perpetuated ad infinitum. Meanwhile, anyone who suggests that these communes are problematic is branded as a HATE-SPEWING RACIST NAZI DEATH HELL SATAN.

The existence of Army Captain Humayun Khan means that muslim immigration into Europe is just swell. Forever. Nothing has gone wrong. In fact, Captain Humayun Khan has negated all problems with every muslim who ever has or ever will exist.

I can participate in reductive horseshit too.

Would you say the problem rather lies with the inflexible outsider processing method than the type of input?

[Giest118]

I think the problem lies with blindly assuming that everything will just sort of work out fine despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Let me put it to you this way: We know that LGBT rights are shit over in the middle east. Like, imprison-and-execute bad. It's at pretty much every level of their culture, from their government to their traditions to their religion.

So who is it that imprisons and/or executes gays over there? Do these imprisonments and executions get conjured out of the ether by the will of the cosmos itself? Of course not. These things are carried out by people. People who are currently in those countries. People who actually exist in real life and are not fictional.

Question: If these people migrate to a Western country, what would cause them to suddenly think that gay people are okay?

Let's extend beyond LGBT--what would cause migrants to suddenly think that women deserve equal respect? What would cause them to suddenly think that non-muslims aren't inferior lifeforms? That would cause them not to bitch out anyone who's carrying bacon on their person?

[quash]

At this point, we may as well be posting Ben Garrison comics. I'll start:

[Blinge]

The thread was in danger of becoming slightly rational until brave quash put us back on course.

[Rob]

[BryanM]

garrison.jpg

I kinda wanna live in "Cuckistan".

I bet it's a utopia with full luxury communism

(Reminder that "globalism" = "capitalism", and the only reason certain people willfully don't get this very obvious fact, is that they're not terribly bright.)

[quash]

The thread was in danger of becoming slightly rational until brave quash put us back on course.

Like many words, "rational" has become a throwaway term for anything you think sounds smart. I'll bet you read RationalWiki, Mr. Rational.

I'm reminded of that muslim girl I met who'd take it in the ass but not the vagine as she wanted to remain 'technically' a virgin.

Ah, yes, this is some very rational sexuality, which was quite rationally inserted into a conversation about how there's more people than the ones you know of. Keep it up.

(Reminder that "globalism" = "capitalism", and the only reason certain people willfully don't get this very obvious fact, is that they're not terribly bright.)

Eh, it's more crony capitalism enabling quasi-socialism if you ask me. Good thing Ben Kenobi Garrison can set the record straight here, too.

[Rob]

[BryanM]

Eh, it's more crony capitalism enabling quasi-socialism if you ask me.

dafuq is "quasi-socialism"? dafuq is "crony capitalism"?

Racial identity politics people are weird. "If only we got rid of the government, then we wouldn't have all this 'crony' capitalism! And everything would be fine!"

brb, go back to when having a job didn't even pay money. But instead paid company scrip, aka, disney fun bucks.

It's called just plain capitalism - a society ruled by and for an elite few who own everything.

The classic canard they perpetrate on the simple minded that is our current theme here: We're always at war with Oceania. Damn those Oceanians. Don't they know we're just trying to help them!

"Help them". Because capitalists are Santa Claus. "Sharing the wealth", much capitalist, much logic. That's totally in character for Mr.Burns.

On the topic of hero billionaires that are gonna save us all

Spoiler

Yeah, a communist utopia made possible by a gigantic no-skill third world underclass. That'll happen.

u may not kno dis yet cause you tink abot penises al daay, buut teechnogggikal deveeloopmoot iz dah onli wai 4 a soosity 2 devleop

coowz dun innvent da supah roobits, capoopilists wit plaan 2 taek ovir woorld doodoo

coowz dun ezen has haonds d00fy