PROBLEM with Shinybow SB-2840 (SCART to Component converter)

[Dochartaigh]

I just received the Shinybow SB-2840 SCART to Component converter and can't get a picture out of it 100% of the time.

When I try hooking it up from the consoles' SCART cables directly to the Shinybow, then Component to my consumer TV (Sony 27FV310), I get this:

***the below may have been the fault of my consumer TV - tried another one and the image is in color on all systems**
NES (RGB NES, Csync I believe): Black and White image but otherwise perfect.
SNES (1CHIP-02 Csync?): Black and White image but otherwise perfect.
---both NES and SNES are using Retro_Console_Accessories cables, but I tried a Cinpel cable many people use as well and same thing---
Sega Genesis (Model 1, Csync): Perfect image in color
PS1/PS2 (Sync on Luma I believe): Perfect Image in color
---both Genesis and PS1/PS2 are using Retro_Console_Accessories cables---
***the below may have been the fault of my consumer TV - tried another one and the image is in color on all systems**


The larger problem is I really want to run this through my Extron Crosspoint. But when I try that the picture is in color on ALL systems (which makes no sense with two of them being B&W above), but the image is garbled and jumping all over the place (have a short video if that's better):

http://i.imgur.com/cH0Nezy.jpg

Now I'm using the same WookieWin SCART to BNC cable I usually use on the input side, but on the output side of the Crosspoint to run to the Shinybow. Could somebody confirm if any pins are switched if that cable is used as an output and what I should move and re-solder? (I know they sometimes change based on the signal direction) - but regardless of that this still doesn't make sense since ALL the images are in color now...

One thing to note is in this configuration (running through the crosspoint) the PS1/PS2 have sync strippers in their SCART to BNC cables since the Crosspoint only takes Csync, but PS1/PS2 worked perfectly when directly hooked up to the Shinybow so why would the image be scrambled now?

Last, if this even matters, there are jumpers on my Extron Crosspoint for 75ohm and 510 ohm h sync and v sync...don't know which way those are supposed to be (I'm assuming 75ohm)...

[Dochartaigh]

Thought I took a longer video, but here's a (literally) 2-second video to show how the image jumps:

https://youtu.be/ORzwFZXk4Zk

[Tapeworm]

I can confirm that the Wookie cables are unidirectional. I only know this because I was looking at his "Male Scart to BNC" cable, and then noticed this in the description:

"The cable is unidirectional. Please message me if you need it wired for BNC --> SCART"

I'm also using my Shinybow as one of my outputs on an Extron Crosspoint. Haven't ran into the issues you are describing. All my cables are from Retro_Console_Accessories.

[Dochartaigh]

Thanks. I think if the picture is in color on all systems when run through the Crosspoint, and it's just the sync that's messed up when I use this cable on the output side (instead of the input side like normal), I just have to switch the pins for Sync on the WookieWin SCART to BNC cable and I should be in business. I posted in the "questions that don't deserve a thread" about which pins to move and/or switch but if you know, please clue me in nd I'll try that when I get home.

...it still doesn't make sense why two systems are in black and white when hooked up directly though (and I'm not using the WookieWin cable at all), but I can tackle that at a later date if I can get the Crosspoint working at least. I did email Shinybow to see what they have to say.

[Dochartaigh]

So I'm pretty sure the systems being in B&W when hooked directly up to the converter was my TV being faulty. I switched from the 27FV310 to a 20FV300 and they're all in color.

BUT, on the advice from WookieeWin I switched the following pins on his SCART to BNC cable to switch it from input to output:

Audio Left (input to output)
Move from pin 6, to pin 3

Audio Right (input to output)
Move from pin 2, to pin 1

Composite video input/Sync input (input to output)
Move from pin 20, to pin 19

And the problem STILL persists...image is in color but still jumps all over the place. I called up Shinybow and they confirmed their unit can take TTL Sync which is what the Extron Crosspoint outputs. Any idea of what else I can try?

[theclaw]

Does the TV accept TTL sync? Frankly I don't know much about it, but I'm pretty sure it's usually used on monitors not TVs.

[Dochartaigh]

Does the TV accept TTL sync? Frankly I don't know much about it, but I'm pretty sure it's usually used on monitors not TVs.

I don't know exactly what the Shinybow outputs, and the Shinybow is pretty much used exclusively on consumer TV's with component inputs (otherwise you would just use the regular RGB signal from your consoles on your monitor with RGB inputs), but I know I also ran the Shinybow to a Sony PVM and it displayed the same. I'm hoping the unit is just defective and when I get back the new one it'll work...

[Fudoh]

I'm not sure that I understand your setup. When you say "The larger problem is I really want to run this through my Extron Crosspoint." do you want to route your crosspoint's output into the transcoder and from there into your TV or do you want to feed the transcoder's output into the crosspoint and output from the crosspoint into your display ?

Your display is component only right ?
The problem you're seeing is coming from this chain, right ? Source -> Extron -> Shinybow -> TV ?

The rewiring of your adapter was right to do, but using the "wrong" genders for the "wrong" directions still tends to bring problems. If you're using a coupler unit or another cable to connect from the breakout cable to the transcoder, then you have to check this one as well. The input/output pins switch around with direction AND gender of the scart connector. If you're using a BNC to MALE scart cable (notice the direction and the gender) then you need to use pins 2, 6 and 20.

If you're using a MALE scart connector and you're using 1, 3 and 19, then it's going the wrong direction.

If you're getting the same result no matter which wiring you're using, then there's something else fundamentally wrong.

[Dochartaigh]

The problem you're seeing is coming from this chain, right ? Source -> Extron -> Shinybow -> TV ?

Yes, right now I'm trying Source -> Extron -> Shinybow -> TV.

Ideally, I want to loop the output of the Shinybow back into the Extron Crosspoint (as an input) so I can throw that component signal out to any consumer TV with component I want (at some point I might have more than one consumer TV set up). But I'm not worrying about that quite yet (have to get it working first before I try looping it back through the Crosspoint).

The rewiring of your adapter was right to do, but using the "wrong" genders for the "wrong" directions still tends to bring problems. If you're using a coupler unit or another cable to connect from the breakout cable to the transcoder, then you have to check this one as well. The input/output pins switch around with direction AND gender of the scart connector. If you're using a BNC to MALE scart cable (notice the direction and the gender) then you need to use pins 2, 6 and 20.

If you're using a MALE scart connector and you're using 1, 3 and 19, then it's going the wrong direction.

Originally the WookieeWin "Female RGB SCART to 4 BNC" cable was using pins 2, 6, and 20 and the image was garbled. So I researched (remembering something about pins switching based on direction or gender), so I re-wired it to use pins 1, 3, and 19, and the image is STILL garbled... For exactly what the genders and all cables are, from the output side of the Extron Crosspoint (which has all BNC's for output) it goes like this:

Extron Crosspoint -> BNC to (wookieewin) *FEMALE* SCART cable (rewired to 1, 3, 19) -> Male to Male SCART cable > Female input of Shinybow SCART to Component converter > Component cables to my consumer CRT

So it looks like I tried BOTH (and the only?) ways to wire the WookieeWin breakout cable. I'm also assuming the KabelDirekt Male to Male SCART cable I'm using has the same pins on each side (i.e. Pin 1 on one side is Pin 1 on the other side, Pin 2 on one side is Pin 2 on the other side, etc.). So if I'm understanding all that correctly, the problem is either A.) The signal the Extron Crosspoint outputs is incompatible with the Shinybow (I called Shinybow and they confirmed their unit can take TTL), or B.) The Shinybow is defective. Any other possibilities? - and THANK YOU for your detailed input - it's appreciated...just frustrating I can't get this to work (or find a single person who has successfully run this from their Crosspoint - which you think there would be tons of)

[Fudoh]

I'm also assuming the KabelDirekt Male to Male SCART cable I'm using has the same pins on each side (i.e. Pin 1 on one side is Pin 1 on the other side, Pin 2 on one side is Pin 2 on the other side, etc.)

that's unlikely. Pins like RGB are routed 1:1, but composite video and audio should be crossed (19 <-> 20 etc). With a cable like this you're right to use 1/3/19 on a female output.

I don't think your transcoder is defective since it works with your consoles directly connected (well at least one one TV).

You would need to check the continuity on your connections. This was basically the same problem where the seemingly fine coupler unit proved to be at fault. http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 4&start=30

The signal the Extron Crosspoint outputs is incompatible with the Shinybow (I called Shinybow and they confirmed their unit can take TTL)

it's a possibility, but the weird part here is that you got the same results with using both pins 20 (wrong) and pin 19 (right) on your adapter cable. You could verify this by just pulling the sync BNC plug from the Extron and see if the picture changes at all. This would at least pinpoint the problem.

If you want to check wether the TTL is a problem, do this: choose an input on your Extron and disconnect the green color channel and the sync channel. Connect the sync channel to the green input instead. Do the same on the output. If you route sync through the green connector on the Extron, the signals remains at consumer levels, while it gets boosted to TTL on the sync input. Yes, you're missing one color while testing, but you can easily check if the different sync levels from the extron make a difference.

I think it's connection issue between the Extron and the transcoder though.

[Dochartaigh]

I'll see if I can (finally) figure out my multimeter and check continuity (I've honestly never used it before).

Besides that, I'll see if pulling the sync (from the output side of the Extron, on the BNC to SCART cable which runs to the Shinybow, right?) and see if that changes the sync in any way (which it's already scrambled...so I'm guess I'm seeing if it gets scrambled even more?)

What do you think about canabalizing one of my male to male SCART cables? (those are inexpensive so that's not a problem). I can then desolder the female SCART off the WookieWin cable, and solder that male SCART directly to the BNC's attached to my Crosspoint. That should take any guess work out of all this cable mess, right? Besides the L/R audio and the R-G-B, I would just be using pin #___? for the Sync? (just confirming as I've gone back and forth on this and still don't know which it needs to be!).

What confuses me is EVERY cable worked properly where ever I've used it before...so I don't understand how they could have pins switched (like on the 2x male to male cables), because those always worked on my PS1/PS2 (as extension cables), on my Raspberry Pi with Pi2SCART RGB board, and even on my older SCART switch.

[Fudoh]

so I don't understand how they could have pins switched (like on the 2x male to male cables)

that's neccessarily the case. You might be missing a ground connection somewhere. If you use various cables and adapters they rely on different pins to be grounded that can happen.

What do you think about canabalizing one of my male to male SCART cables?

you can do that, but in general using a male/male extension should work as well.

Besides the L/R audio and the R-G-B, I would just be using pin #___? for the Sync? (just confirming as I've gone back and forth on this and still don't know which it needs to be!).

pin 20 on the male scart connector used as a output. And you need ground on pins 4, 17 and 18. The rest is usually optional. RGB each has its own ground pin as well if you want to be thorough.

What confuses me is EVERY cable worked properly where ever I've used it before...

try that TTL vs. unprocessed sync from the Extron first (by passing the sync signal through the Y/G connector). This way you can rule out the Extron first.

[Dochartaigh]

I'll try this out – probably over the weekend. I'm hoping the wires in the male to male scart, and the WookieeWin are color coated somehow so I can compare them and see what's off. I might literally use my bag of tiny alligator clips (connected by wires) and frankenstein up something where I can switch around pins until it (hopefully) works. Thanks for all your help again.

[Dochartaigh]

So Success!! I mean, I'll find out when I wake up tomorrow morning if I threw out my back lifting that Sony KV-27FV310 from the floor to my workbench...but besides that it's all working.

I re-wired the entire SCART plug from female to male - twice actually: I didn't notice the first row of pins on the female has 11 pins you can solder to, and on the male there's only 10 (the 11th is the metal casing itself, so I had to desolder everything and move everything over 1 pin... Sync on Pin 20 was perfect.

Then the second problem to overcome was the 27FV310 I ultimately wanted to hook this up to. Tested it on a 13FS100, then a 20FV300 and every system worked - then the 27FV310 was black and white on NES and SNES (and Genesis sporadically) which again made no sense...after flipping through every single setting for some reason the "Vivid" color mode makes those systems go to black and white - extremely weird.

Thank you for the help! I'm glad this is working for me...now I'm going to try to flip it back into the Extron Crosspoint and see if it'll route to a couple different Component outputs.