HD retrovision - Did anyone join the kickstarter?

[Ikaruga11]

I think it's pretty cool that the SNES YPbPr cables will work with the SNES, N64 and GameCube. Very versatile.

[Guspaz]

The cables require RGB and composite video. They will not work on a stock N64 or an NTSC GameCube. They require an RGB-modded N64 and a PAL GameCube.

[ChuChu Flamingo]

Awfully expensive unless you only plan on getting one, maybe two.

[zredgemz]

I heard that they work great on a rgb modded nes with a multiout too.

[Voultar]

And the HD Retrovision scaler, should it appear, also probably won't be cheap. I don't expect much to come of it, though, since their cable is basically an off-the-shelf solution in one cable, as I understand it, with no original engineering of note.

This is arguably the most ignorant thing I've read throughout the entirety of this thread.

[zredgemz]

New wave is on sale now.

[Blair]

it seems like they're solving a problem the most inefficient and expensive way possible, instead of making expensive cables and duplicating these these costly RGB to YUV encoder chips. why not just make a box with a bunch of inputs (similar to the idea of the retro standard cable), small inputs so you can fit a bunch into a relatively small form factor. that box would house the encoder chip and then just sell the low cost cables to connect to the box. sort of like a csy-2100 but built for gaming from the outset. and the box also acts as a multiple system switchr (that would also solve another problem adding to the cost savings)

[Guspaz]

So you're basically advocating something like a gscartsw with a built-in RGB to component converter? I don't see how that could possibly be cheaper than whatever cost the YPbPr converter part of the HDR cables is. Have you seen the cost of a well built custom video swithcer? Your proposed solution would end up costing far more. Maybe you could save ten bucks a cable, but then you'd be looking at a hundred bucks or more for this switcher box.

[neorichieb1971]

it seems like they're solving a problem the most inefficient and expensive way possible, instead of making expensive cables and duplicating these these costly RGB to YUV encoder chips. why not just make a box with a bunch of inputs (similar to the idea of the retro standard cable), small inputs so you can fit a bunch into a relatively small form factor. that box would house the encoder chip and then just sell the low cost cables to connect to the box. sort of like a csy-2100 but built for gaming from the outset. and the box also acts as a multiple system switchr (that would also solve another problem adding to the cost savings)

The cables are built different apparently. Its not as simple as putting different ends on each cable. If it were that simple they would make adapters for each system type from a single cable, which would be even cheaper. It looks like they only needed 2 cables as it is.

I don't use mine at all that much since my TV does not support the 240p signal that well. My XRGB2 does a better job with the SLG3000 in tow. But when I get my OSSC I would rather use component cables if the SCART buzzes on the audio. The scart input will have to be damn impressive for me to change to it.

[Guspaz]

Nintendo consoles are different enough to justify their own circuit, apparently, but the Genesis is more normal, so they've got adapters for other systems for that cable (currently Saturn and Neo Geo, later Playstation).

[Blair]

So you're basically advocating something like a gscartsw with a built-in RGB to component converter? I don't see how that could possibly be cheaper

No, as I said I was more thinking something along the lines of the csy-2100 but with gamers in mind. for instance, instead of the 1 scart input they could put like 3 (or less) mini-din connectors in the same space and just build the cables accordingly. that alone would save time and money (for the consumer at least).

The cables are built different apparently. Its not as simple as putting different ends on each cable. If it were that simple they would make adapters for each system type from a single cable, which would be even cheaper. It looks like they only needed 2 cables as it is.

I guess, but we've had RGB to YUV converters for years and the off-spec sync of some systems haven't really been much of a problem until now. supposedly (if i've read correctly) they just used an off the shelf design and made a few adjustments. and I don't claim to know how complex that process was. but from the interviews i've seen and some of the quotes i've read, it feels a but like they decided to reinvent the wheel.

[Einzelherz]

Largely because they're not catering to "hardcore retro gamers". Their target audience are there same nostalgia people that the nes mini and snes mini are aimed at, but who might happen to still have their Genesis in the closet.

To be clear, I don't think yours is a bad idea. Cloning a shinybow rgb->component box with 4 minidin 9s and selling not-scart cables would probably appeal to some, but it's not that different from just doing it with scart now.

[neorichieb1971]

Hdretrovisions goal was to bring RGB to the USA in a format that was plug n play.

Nobody is reinventing the wheel. Because most people are informed on this site, they go around thinking they have a superiority complex because they know what a Framemeister and what a scart lead is. But the reality is people just want something you plug in and play. Hdretrovision does this nicely.

There are also people that feel 90% of perfect is good enough. The difference in cost between 90% good and 100% perfect can be $200+.

[ChuChu Flamingo]

I wonder if their new circuit would make component 240p display better on my plasma (not that it matters as I play on a crt for retro).Its been several years since I last tested but it was super duper shakey.

In any case I think joe sixpack is still hosed if his tv doesn't like 240p over component and displays nothing.

[Guspaz]

So you're basically advocating something like a gscartsw with a built-in RGB to component converter? I don't see how that could possibly be cheaper

No, as I said I was more thinking something along the lines of the csy-2100 but with gamers in mind. for instance, instead of the 1 scart input they could put like 3 (or less) mini-din connectors in the same space and just build the cables accordingly. that alone would save time and money (for the consumer at least).

How would that save money? In that scenario, you've removed two out of three YPbPr conversion circuits, but added additional multiplexing hardware to handle switching between three inputs, as well as potentially additional circuitry to support manual switching. Look at the loss in sharpness/brightness by most cheap SCART switchers, you'd need to put a fair bit of engineering into the sort of switcher you're proposing in order to switch between multiple inputs with no loss in quality. It'd end up costing more money than you'd save, so why bother? Talking about re-inventing the wheel, you'd basically be trying to replace a gcompsw.

I guess, but we've had RGB to YUV converters for years and the off-spec sync of some systems haven't really been much of a problem until now.

Haven't they been? The CSY clones have poor colours even when tweaked, and even good converters can balk at iffy input. For example, the PAL GameCube has a poor quality sync signal, and the Shinybow SB-2840 can't be used for GBI-LL or GBI-ULL: the combination of the poor quality sync with the out-of-spec refresh rates are too much to handle. The gen 2 HDR cable, on the other hand, supports both scenarios perfectly. The gen 1 HDR cable actually had a slight skew to the left for the top half of the screen (not as bad as the massive flickery waving mess the Shinybow produces, it's actually playable with the slight skew), the gen 2 cable solves that entirely (tweaks were made to the sync circuit to account for how the PAL cube sync is messed up).

supposedly (if i've read correctly) they just used an off the shelf design and made a few adjustments. and I don't claim to know how complex that process was. but from the interviews i've seen and some of the quotes i've read, it feels a but like they decided to reinvent the wheel.

I believe it's an original design. Considering how they appear to have managed to support scenarios that no other RGB-YPbPr converter seems to support (GBI-ULL on a PAL GCN as an example), their pursuit of perfection seems to have paid off. As a reference, here is a photo of a prototype board from 2015 (it looks like a prototype of the gen 1 cables as those were revision G, the gen 2 cables are revision H):

[Greg2600]

I ordered both cables, and the GEN-2 (for my 32X and hopefully RGB modded TG-16) and SAT adapters. My full SCART setup is on my HDTV, so I was looking for something inexpensive and NOT SCART for my 27" CRT to get component and go above S-Video.

Hope they work on my CRT TV. It's a Samsung, which seems to have good compatibility. However, I've wanted a Sony Trinitron, which as of last year, did not?

[neorichieb1971]

My Sony is a 2007 model and plays stuff ok. But its not great as it converts to 480i.

If you are buying a Sony then I would budget another $200 for the OSSC if you want something thats going to hit the spot.

[Guspaz]

If it's not an HD CRT, but a proper SD CRT, then if it has component video inputs, it will almost certainly work with any and every console that are supported by the HDR cables.

[Greg2600]

If it's not an HD CRT, but a proper SD CRT, then if it has component video inputs, it will almost certainly work with any and every console that are supported by the HDR cables.

Great! Yeah it would be one of the old ones manufactured 15 years ago. The Samsung is nice, but I think it's on its way out.

[zredgemz]

Tonight at 7:59pm est is the last chance to get cables till the next batch(no idea when), good look to anyone who is interested.

[BONKERS]

Finally got my cables.
On the Genesis, brightness switch doesn't show any changes either way. (Guess my display is fine then)

http://imgur.com/gallery/2rrBC
imgur compression sucks. But it gets the point across.

Here's a few without the compression.
https://abload.de/img/img_20170708_195411_1idkqx.jpg
https://abload.de/img/img_20170708_193848_14wjn0.jpg
https://abload.de/img/img_20170708_194127_12ojwg.jpg

[Einzelherz]

Looks pretty good, BONKERS.

[Steamflogger Boss]

Quite nice.

Imgur scores/comments always amuse me and did not fail with this gallery, lol.

[Fusion916]

Just been made aware of these cables from another forum. They look pretty good. I wonder why they get away with selling them for so cheap?

[Guspaz]

Hah, you're the first person I've heard complain about them being too cheap, everywhere else I read about people complaining that they're too expensive, even though they cost half as much as getting good SCART and component converters

The circuit is custom designed, they're manufactured in China (and tested in China since Nick and Ste designed a complete testing/validation rig that they shipped to the factory), so I guess you could simply say there's not a huge amount of overhead?

[Greg2600]

Tested mine as well, really give a beautiful image. I only tested them on my CRT though, which is where I would use them.

Tested on SNES cable: SNES, RGB-modded N64, RGB-modded NES.
Tested on GEN cable: Model 1 Genesis, 32X, Saturn (with adapter), and TG-16 (RGB-modded with GEN2 8-pin DIN).

[Fusion916]

Hah, you're the first person I've heard complain about them being too cheap, everywhere else I read about people complaining that they're too expensive, even though they cost half as much as getting good SCART and component converters

The circuit is custom designed, they're manufactured in China (and tested in China since Nick and Ste designed a complete testing/validation rig that they shipped to the factory), so I guess you could simply say there's not a huge amount of overhead?

People who complain about them being too cheap arent designers. My circuit for scart->component is custom, PCBs also made in china but the parts are US. I'm sure im using different parts which is contributing to the cost plus I suppose my unit is externally powered so that adds to the cost. Either way, still surprised they are so cheap.

[Guspaz]

Hah, you're the first person I've heard complain about them being too cheap, everywhere else I read about people complaining that they're too expensive, even though they cost half as much as getting good SCART and component converters

The circuit is custom designed, they're manufactured in China (and tested in China since Nick and Ste designed a complete testing/validation rig that they shipped to the factory), so I guess you could simply say there's not a huge amount of overhead?

People who complain about them being too cheap arent designers. My circuit for scart->component is custom, PCBs also made in china but the parts are US. I'm sure im using different parts which is contributing to the cost plus I suppose my unit is externally powered so that adds to the cost. Either way, still surprised they are so cheap.

I think you're doing it on a much smaller scale, though: I don't know the exact quantity, but I'd guess something like one or two thousand cables, IIRC. Their PCB is also much smaller than yours (has to fit in the overmold), since they can rely on a pin header instead of a big SCART/RCA connector combination.

[Fusion916]

Hah, you're the first person I've heard complain about them being too cheap, everywhere else I read about people complaining that they're too expensive, even though they cost half as much as getting good SCART and component converters

The circuit is custom designed, they're manufactured in China (and tested in China since Nick and Ste designed a complete testing/validation rig that they shipped to the factory), so I guess you could simply say there's not a huge amount of overhead?

People who complain about them being too cheap arent designers. My circuit for scart->component is custom, PCBs also made in china but the parts are US. I'm sure im using different parts which is contributing to the cost plus I suppose my unit is externally powered so that adds to the cost. Either way, still surprised they are so cheap.

I think you're doing it on a much smaller scale, though: I don't know the exact quantity, but I'd guess something like one or two thousand cables, IIRC. Their PCB is also much smaller than yours (has to fit in the overmold), since they can rely on a pin header instead of a big SCART/RCA connector combination.

Yup definitely scale/quantity is probably the biggest driver in reducing cost. PCB size is almost irrelevant as the PCBs themselves, even at my size, are somewhere around 1 dollar each. Most of the cost are the electronic parts themselves. And yeah making a cable, you won't have to worry about big RCA/SCART connectors, which is a much larger contributor to cost reduction.

Either way, cool product at a good cost (IMHO).